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is attempting moderation foolish?

"If the devil fixes to vex me by torturing me when I do not drink, then I shall drink."

- Martin Luther
 
no such of moderation when it comes to drugs like cocaine and meth, how can you moderately use something that leaves you with no control of your impulses? Anyone telling you otherwise is a crackhead or someone who doesn't do the drug no more and is trying to convince themselves that they can eventually do it in moderation.

real talk all day.
 
SKL said:
I don't really believe in the twelver's philosophy of one is too much. From time to time, I get an insufferable itch to scratch my opiate receptors, and from a rarer time to time, I indulge that. Usually I wind up OK. I think it's a matter of self-control. That being said, I'm a degenerate alcoholic at this point and can't really control myself once I scratch that itch, so I guess it all depends on your individual situation. I think in our hearts we know whether or not we can take whatever situation to the edge, it's just the addicted lizard-brain that tries to tell us otherwise. Reflect, and then do what you will, I guess. For most, though, who'd consider themselves in recovery, you've come a long way out of a sticky swamp, why risk it?
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I think alcohol is what's waiting for us at the end of the black tar road.
 
CfZrx said:
I think alcohol is what's waiting for us at the end of the black tar road.
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Amen, this was surely my experience. I travelled a good few roads. My first love were psychedelics, but the existential confusion led me to seek solace in opiates; opiates lead me to seek easy money, and easy money made me dangerous, manic and out of control; I sought after psych meds to control the mania, and suboxone to palliate my opiate dependency; after quitting suboxone, it was booze and pills just to sleep, nightly. I don't know if I'm moving down or up, probably staying in a more or less straight line, only with variegated scenery.
 
I think about this all the time. With certain drugs, or your drugs of choice you CANNOT go back to moderation and keep it like that. Somewhere down the line, your brain will tick and you will go right back to daily use.

Now i don't like alcohol... never did. My thing was opiates ( and many other things...) Anyways i am in the 12 step program and they tell me i can never drink alcohol again either. I tell them what the fuck, i have always handled my drinking and always can....

After one or two drinks i can say enough when i feel like it. Problem is when i drink i think to my self... what a shit drug. I wish i had opiates right now, i am much more willing to relapse on other drugs after a few drinks. It's kind of like playing with fire.
 
I'm not sure I agree with that man, despite cocaine addiction I've still managed sensible sessions where I have eaten and called it a day at around 11pm in the past month. If you just remind yourself why that limit is there and the diminished returns and increased side effects there after it can be done.

Alcohol is the drug I struggle to moderate the most. Cannabis too I seem to have a permanent high tolerance.
 
Sidnafilisevil said:
I've still managed sensible sessions where I have eaten and called it a day at around 11pm in the past month.
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please don't advocate something you were ADDICTED to and then try to mislead people by saying they can use it in moderation. That's bullshit, you were addicted to it, it had you by the balls, your addiction made you believe you were having "sensible sessions." In addiction, you are a slave to the drug.

Sidnafilisevil said:
Alcohol is the drug I struggle to moderate the most. Cannabis too I seem to have a permanent high tolerance.
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You could control your cocaine use, which is the ultimate impulsive drug, yet you can't control your cannabis use, which is a fucking joke in comparison, are you serious bloke??? Spare us the lies

I hate people who mislead innocent readers by trying to convince them that they can play with fire without getting burned.
 
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F1n1shed said:
Now i don't like alcohol... never did. My thing was opiates ( and many other things...) Anyways i am in the 12 step program and they tell me i can never drink alcohol again either. I tell them what the fuck, i have always handled my drinking and always can....

After one or two drinks i can say enough when i feel like it. Problem is when i drink i think to my self... what a shit drug. I wish i had opiates right now, i am much more willing to relapse on other drugs after a few drinks. It's kind of like playing with fire.
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12 step programs suggest total abstinence, because through experience found that many addicts are unable to use any mind or mood substance (non-prescribed of course, prescribed meds are a totally different story) without it resulting in negative consequences. NA in particular views addiction as an all encompassing problem (and AA has taken this line as well as research on addiction has proven it).

Your last paragraph is one of the exact reasons why it is not suggested to not consume alcohol as it leads you to a relapse. My one suggestion would be to maybe just try total abstinence. Give it a good three months, go to meetings, share etc etc
 
Just a few days ago I would say no (it's something I was planning), but I think at least knowing how I am right now I'm going to have to say yes. Everyone's different of course, but addicts are good at lying to themselves. At least personally speaking I think I'm finally coming to the conclusion that I'm either totally on or off. It's something I'm currently wrestling with.
 
It's worth trying IMHO. What's important is to address the issue right away if it obvious isn't working. Attempting in moderation is not an excuse to use as much/whenever you want.

Personally, I couldn't imagine my life without any "drugs." I mean, the idea of seeking out abstinence in and of itself as some end in itself just does not sit well with me. It never has, and I've been thinking about it for maybe 10 years. I've discovered that abstinence does not equal sobriety. Seeing things as they are and accurate understand of one's self and the world does not necessarily abstinence.

That said, if I literally control myself like the stereotypical alcohol addict then I would imagine abstinence would be the only practical way to go for me. So if one just cannot control any of their use, it's certainly worth a shot.

Certainly refraining from using certain drugs one's simply unable to deal with is a good idea, especially if one can enjoy and make good use out of experiences with other drugs that is at least ideally less harmful (i.e. problem drinker forgoing booze for cannabis as it's never been a problem blazing for them).

Funny how my life improved when I stopped kidding myself that abstinence was so important. What's important to me is living a good life. Honesty. Health relationship. A healthy mind and both. And possibly most importantly: achieving what I set out to do. I.e. Making mistakes but getting back up, learning from them, and moving on. That's what matters to me.
 
crimsonjunk said:
I can moderate some drugs. Other drugs I can't.
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It's like that for me as well; but with other drugs I can moderate them but then sometimes would binge on them in the past when I was using them like alcohol. So I no longer drink and I do not hang out with friends who I did drink a lot with or who I used to be close with but eventually our friendship became mainly just about drinking or doing social things that revolved around drinking alcohol like going to bars, parties, or even live music events/concerts where we would drink.

I just decided to stop using everything before I turned 30 since I did not want to one day turn a lot older and realize I had been drinking and using drugs since I was a teenager like a lot of people I know have had happen.
 
That's a really good example. Addiction treatment people and drug counselors shit on the rational/analytic ability and the mind all the time, reducing thinking to merely a process or rationalizing or excusing problematic/harmful drug use. But as someone once told me, that's bullshit. You've got a brain - Use it!
 
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I'm of the mindset; once bread becomes toast, it can never go back to being bread again. You can have it with butter, you can have it with jelly, but its still just toast.

Moderation doesn't work for me. If I do any mood altering substance I go right back to opiates and I sure as shit are not going to sniff them, im going to boot them. That opens a whole can of worms that I just don't want around me again. I choose abstinence. If you can use responsibly without conflicts in your life, good for you. If you find yourself seeking treatment, or going to meetings you are like me and just cannot use.
 
Sounds like that is a really good insight into what's necessary for you!
 
^^^exactly. I cannot speak to others, and preaching only works on the choir in this instance. All I can say is who I am and what works for me, because I just cannot ever go back to doing speedballs all day. Even though I had fun in jail, I certainly don't want to go back there.
 
LOL, my thoughts exactly. I have nooooo interest in getting arrest again. In my case I have chosen to continue to use certain things in moderation, responsibly, but that's because I've discovered it enriches my life. After experiencing a lot of good and difficult times with certain drugs, I've learned a lot about what I need to watch out for, what to abstain from and how to be responsible about my involvement with any drug.

The fact you (and I, and others) have come to such a fundamental and significant personal insight is what's really important, and should be celebrated :) <3
 
toothpastedog said:
That's a really good example. Addiction treatment people and drug counselors shit on the rational/analytic ability and the mind all the time, reducing thinking to merely a process or rationalizing or excusing problematic/harmful drug use. But as someone once told me, that's bullshit. You'd got a brain - Use it!
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OK. I personally have never been to a detox/rehab/addiction center, or been to AA/NA or non-12 step recovery group.

I'm not against any of that as such things do work for people; but I just never used them when stopping/quitting all drug use.
 
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