Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Eticyclidone / 2‘-Oxo-PCE Thread

[Solipsis]

I guess tolerance isn't a complex explation.. My confusion may be from the fact that I have pretty much permanent K tolerance but O-PCM still floored me and gave me almost nothing good in return.

 

[MSK]

I guess tolerance isn't a complex explation.. My confusion may be from the fact that I have pretty much permanent K tolerance but O-PCM still floored me and gave me almost nothing good in return.

Yeah, I don't like 2-oxo-pcm very much, but snorting it and smoking some joints is my way to return to the K-land without needing ket.

At low/medium doses it feels pretty similar.

At higher dosages you can feel it's not the same at all and it lacks some magic. Really lackluster by itself, but nice as an ingredient for combos.

My 2-oxo-pcm holes were confusing and amnesic, without a desire to repeat the experience.

With ket, oh lord, I swear I tried really hard to get some effects again from it, but nothing works. Maybe IM will do the trick, but don't want to ride that horse until I'm way older

 

[vostochnik]

didn't go for the ho-pce due to the stimulant properties, what if it's the next MXE?

If you mean O-PCE, I really wouldn't worry about any stimulant properties. At doses of around 30-40mg nasally (after building up a slight tolerance), I felt very calm, serene, spacey but collected, and very content. With IV doses, I could hole pretty frequently and consistently with around the same dose. That is a bit more manic-y, although I hesitate to use that word; it is not manic like MXE. As far as it being the next MXE, I think that seems kind of in reverse. Both substances are analogs of PCE, which is itself an analog of both ketamine and PCP. O-PCE shares a bit more in common with ketamine than with PCP (thank god). But my point: MXE is 3-methoxy-2'-oxo-PCE. O-PCE is 2'-oxo-PCE. This makes O-PCE a lower homolog, closer to PCE; it seems like it should have been the one to come out first. But thankfully, it didn't, and it's still around!

I did lotsa K to the point where 200mg wouldn't hole me, idk about the purity though... I should have felt something with the
27mg opce+dck though, right? it was both nasally, hopefully my tolerance isn't fucked up in the arse

I don't have any experience with DCK and limited experience with ketamine due to where I live, but I know 200mg is getting up there. I would take a break for a while, a month at least, but I don't think your tolerance is permanently destroyed or anything drastic. I personally find that it's easier, or at least more reliable, to hole with O-PCE, even if the hole is a bit different.

//edit: wouldn't the new compound feel somewhat like MXE? since it affects the mu opioid receptor?

Well.. first off, it feels a bit like MXE, especially when IVed. I like the effects more than MXE, and it doesn't stick around for hours and hours like MXE. As far as the mu opioid binding, that was mostly an urban legend with MXE. Its effects at that receptor are negligible, although I did notice that when combined with pharmaceutical opioids, there was definitely a synergy with MXE. I have not done the same kind of experiment yet with O-PCE, but I know it has even less, if any, action at the mu opioid receptor. Some arylcyclohexylamines have weak activity at the kappa opioid receptors, but to say that O-PCE affects them would be speculative at this point.

Just to be clear and up front, not trying to be a jerk here. I'm happy to answer any other questions that I'm able to.

 

[vostochnik]

What makes me wonder.... Why the fuck ketamine seems to be the only arylcyclohexamine that is more potent snorted than oral?

Good question. I don't really have an answer, but I've always noticed that ketamine kicks in IMMEDIATELY when snorted, like cocaine. MXE was not like that, O-PCE is not like that. Maybe ketamine bonds more rapidly or easily to the mucus membrane? Anybody's guess..

 

[vostochnik]

I have a question for the people who have accidentally ingested more 2-OxO-PCE than they meant to. During my heady days of MXE use, sometimes I would wind up utterly confused. This tended to happen towards the end of sessions after multiple redoses. The most particular time I remember, I was chilling in *MY* apartment, with a lot of close friends. And I didn't know where I was, or who anyone was. I was looking at these people I knew very well and all I could do was say, "who ARE you?" over and over. Is that kind of like what happens when 2-oxo-pce gets "beastly"?

Hey. I can definitely relate to your negative MXE experiences. After going through almost 300mg one night (lots of redoses after starting with 80mg nasally), I ended up very confused the next morning, having small crying fits. I tried to go see my parents but didn't recognize any of the streets at all, streets that I travel daily.

I have done enough O-PCE in an IV shot that, by the time I needed to go do something, I was functional socially and physically, but I could not for the life of me remember how to tie my shoes. That happened frequently with MXE, too. However, I would not compare the two in this regard. MXE could get scary if you tested it. O-PCE is not as more-ish, for me. It may be because I generally go with the IV route and don't like to poke myself, but I've never found myself redosing O-PCE. It is very potent by mass, especially compared to MXE.

 

[DroneLore]

Hey. I can definitely relate to your negative MXE experiences. After going through almost 300mg one night (lots of redoses after starting with 80mg nasally), I ended up very confused the next morning, having small crying fits. I tried to go see my parents but didn't recognize any of the streets at all, streets that I travel daily.

I have done enough O-PCE in an IV shot that, by the time I needed to go do something, I was functional socially and physically, but I could not for the life of me remember how to tie my shoes. That happened frequently with MXE, too. However, I would not compare the two in this regard. MXE could get scary if you tested it. O-PCE is not as more-ish, for me. It may be because I generally go with the IV route and don't like to poke myself, but I've never found myself redosing O-PCE. It is very potent by mass, especially compared to MXE.

Thanks so much for that thorough answer. God dammit, I can't wait to try this shit!!

I IVed mxe occasionally (and the first time I did it is the only time a drug ever, beyond a shadow of a doubt, convinced me that I was dying. But that's another story.) I much preferred to IM though. Have only ever IMed O-PCE?

 

[vostochnik]

I have done nasal and IV doses of O-PCE only, so far. And I have to amend a previous statement. On one occasion, when giving a starter dose of O-PCE to a couple of friends who greatly enjoyed the MXE I shared with them a year before, I was given a smallish amount of H, maybe 0.085g. Enough for me, as an extremely rare user of H. It did have some synergy. Nothing like what I got from taking methadone with MXE, though.

Honestly, I really don't know how to administer an IM shot. I have a totally irrational worry that it wouldn't be as potent or kick in as fast as IV. There is definitely a rush right before the hole with O-PCE. I make a game out of how quickly I can go wash the barrel out, wrap a warm, wet towel around the injection site, and get back into my chair before it overtakes me.

 

[DroneLore]

I have a totally irrational worry that it wouldn't be as potent or kick in as fast as IV. .[/QUOTE]
That's not irrational, it's true. I just found IV mxe unpleasant, the slower (but still by far faster than any roa besides IV) comeup of Im was much more pleasant for me.

 

[Xorkoth]

Well IM certainly does not kick in as fast as IV, there will be less of a peak rush. IM is a a good ROA though. I for one have decided to never IV, but I will IM on rare occasions for things like ketamine and DPT (the combo specifically, or maybe with MXE instead).

IM is more likely to produce an abcess if not done in sterile conditions, though to me IV is definitely more dangerous overall.

 

[Ziiirp]

Combined 3-ho-PCE and 3-meo-PCE and 2-oxo-PCE recently and had one of the greatest trips so far (a very schizophrenic hole so to say).

t+0 : Insufflation of 5-10mg 3-ho-PCE
t+10 : Rode the bike to the grocery store chain (had to go a bit further because it was the last one open at 11:30 in the night). Did not feel much, in fact it felt like a typical insufflated dose of 3-meo-PCE
t+60 : Took 3 big bumps of 2-oxo-PCE (~20-30mg), wholed hard, not much recollection, many voices in my head, awesome visuals, a sense of a presence of entitites
t+160 : Took 10mg of 3-meo-PCE and 10mg 2-oxo-PCE and set in full lotus in front of a wall for the remainder of the trip (about 100 min ?), the main theme was complete emptiness with visuals and black outs
t+240 : I went to sleep with the help of melatonine (prepared beforehand).

Yeah it was fun. The next day I could barely walk straight but after a good long run through the woods I sweated much of it out and after that I felt fucking GREAT.

Resume of the story for me is : Abusing dissos is much more forgiving if you prepared your environment (because moving is incredible difficult) beforehand than abusing psychs. Mental trainwrecks are very unlikely with good dissos (i.e. the PCEs). I would never abuse 3-meo-PCP because it seems to have more potential for psychosis because of the dopaminergic affinity profile.

 

[StMorningGlory]

I'm so excited to try that combo. It's the one I've been eyeing for awhile.

On the IV vs IM, I have found the IM is more "full bodies" as the amnesia hits strong after first effects. With IV it's the same time for me.

 

[Ziiirp]

I'd say I was lucky, that the 3-ho-PCE did not hit me that hard. So beware the dosage, it could end in a disaster.

low dose 3-ho-PCE felt like between 3-meo-PCE and 3-meo-PCP but further solo experiments are due.

 

[crOOk]

IV (MDMA+2C-E) + 2-Oxo-PCE Am I experienced yet?

New report is up.

 

[spacejunk]

I make a game out of how quickly I can go wash the barrel out, wrap a warm, wet towel around the injection site, and get back into my chair before it overtakes me.

Be careful moving around after having IV dissociatives.
With mxe you very easily wake up on the floor sometime afterwards, if you stood up after administering it.
I wouldnt recommend standing up for at least a minute or two after injecting drugs like dissociatives or hallcuinogens. The effects sneak up on you very quickly, and anything approaching an anaesthetic dose or hole would be a bad thing to still be standing or walking when it kicks in, because your body may just collapse under you.
You should always be seated when IVing anything, but these drugs - especially.

Admittedly, i've not tried this chem.
Sounds pretty interesting though.

 

[crOOk]

Be careful moving around after having IV dissociatives.
With mxe you very easily wake up on the floor after a shot if you stood up. I wouldnt recommend standing up for at least a minute or two after injecting drugs like dissociatives or hallcuinogens.
The effects sneak up on you very quickly, and anything approaching an anaesthetic dose or hole would be a bad thing to still be standing when it kicks in, because your body may just collapse under you.
You should always be seated when IVing anything, but these drugs - especially.

Admittedly, i've not tried this chem.
Sounds pretty interesting though.

Hands down my favourite dissociative. I've said this before about others, but this one is the fucking shit. If it was only a teeny tiny bit more sedating, on par with ketamine, I'd like it even better. Ketamine ain't shit compared to this though. I don't even bother using it anymore even when free vials were offered to me on two occasions lol.

Yes, it's that good. Been also warning extensively about the IV dissociative issues myself in that report I just posted.

 

[Ziiirp]

Hands down my favourite dissociative. I've said this before about others, but this one is the fucking shit. If it was only a teeny tiny bit more sedating, on par with ketamine, I'd like it even better. Ketamine ain't shit compared to this though. I don't even bother using it anymore even when free vials were offered to me on two occasions lol.

Yes, it's that good. Been also warning extensively about the IV dissociative issues myself in that report I just posted.

Yeah after I talked it down for a while after the first trials I also must say it is the most utilizable disso around. A hole is always guaranteed, if the dose allows it and it has very few negative after effects.

Plus it excels in combination (keep the dose lower then).

 

[crOOk]

does anyone know why this particular drug has such a different effect profile, depending on the ROA?

Speed of absorption and metabolic factors. If a substance is converted to an inactive one or to one that has a different effects profile, the conversion will happen at a particular rate dependent on the plasma concentration, genetic factors, state of your liver, kidneys, other medication etc.

Generally speaking, faster absorption will maximize the effects.

Not only will there be a higher peak plasma concentration, simply because the body usually can't metabolize a substance as fast as it is being absorbed, but the reaction of your cells will usually also be stronger. This is due to the cellular adaptive mechanisms that take place upon activation of a target cell.

There are usually negative feedback mechanisms involved when it comes to monitoring the activation of receptors. You flood your receptors with a substance, the target receptor proteins will cause a reaction, this reaction is registered and measures are taken to decrease the impact like downregulation. A cell can for example move transmembranous receptor proteins to the inside of the cell in order to desensitize itself towards the incoming ligands. This is part of why a tolerance to most drugs develops.
Other possibilities are that a factor important to the metabolization is being produced or released to a greater extent, e.g. many substances induce or inhibit production of enzyme proteins from the CYP P450 family, but this mechanism is not limited to them. Maybe some coenzymes that were kept back before will now be released and make processing of the substance easier for enzymes that are already produced.

These feedback mechanisms are often not limited to the targeted cells alone, but possibly to other tissue in your body as well.

So when a substance is absorbed very quickly, the body doesn't have sufficient time to
1) adapt in order to desensitize
2) metabolize or excrete the substance

A great example for quick desensitization is MDMA which causes MUCH stronger reactions when taken rectally or when it is injected intravenously. It releases MDMA from the serotonergic presynapse which then floods the postsynaptic serotonin receptors. This desensitization NOT only happens at the target cell, but also in the cell that releases the substance (into which it is transported back by other transmembranous proteins).

An example for quick metabolization is heroin (desensitization also plays a big role though). It's metabolized so quickly that before a full oral dose has been absorbed most of it has already been gotten rid of. Therefore the instant flooding via inhalation or intravenous injection means that when a person has finished his shot/smoke, most of the heroin is still active.


Most arylcyclohexylamines undergo extensive metabolization by a large number of different proteins, resulting in a plethora or different metabolites. One of ketamine's metabolites for example is responsible for it's antidepressant action, despite not causing you to trip.
It is not clear how exactly 2-Oxo-PCE is metabolized afaik, but the usual suspects (CYP P450) are known to do catalyze small number of chemical reactions better than other reactions. E.g. one is very good at N-demethylation of monoamines, another O-demethylates or deacetylate. You can therefore make assumptions that protein X catalyzes process Y at a position Z of substance XYZ. I think you get the idea. Most RC's are never really investigated for what is their fate inside the body. What is relatively common is just throwing them in a dish with various enzymes and look at the results or deduce from the metabolites found in the blood, urine and stool.

One more thing is distribution throughout your body. The substance might be present in more or less equal amounts across all tissues after entering the bloodstream, but are taken up better by some tissue over other tissue and therefore the activity in the different organs can start varying greatly after that. In some cases this is due to the body's intention to metabolize them or simply keep them out of other tissue (think glia cells that contribute to the BBB), in other instances the physical properties of a substance dictate where they end up, simply because different tissue has different properties. E.g. some substance dissolve better in more polar environments than others (polarity or logP O/W).

Lol I was only gonna write two sentences.

 

[Haltia]

First time with this, ingested 10mg. Very mellow and sociable,uninhibited mood. Totally functional, but if i just sit down and keep quiet, it gives me a "submarine" feeling, and there is a pronounced feeling of wonkiness very reminiscent of mxe. I've been cruising with 3-meo-pcp so long that I think my nmda receptors need to attune a bit to get most out of this new substance...

edit; 5 hrs later... Plugged 10 mgs more. What warmth... PCE is the Lady and PCP the king... I guess PCM the court jester?

 

[MSK]

First time with this, ingested 10mg. Very mellow and sociable,uninhibited mood. Totally functional, but if i just sit down and keep quiet, it gives me a "submarine" feeling, and there is a pronounced feeling of wonkiness very reminiscent of mxe. I've been cruising with 3-meo-pcp so long that I think my nmda receptors need to attune a bit to get most out of this new substance...

edit; 5 hrs later... Plugged 10 mgs more. What warmth... PCE is the Lady and PCP the king... I guess PCM the court jester?

PCM is more like the peasant

 

[DroneLore]

Eticyclidone kicked my ASS last night! I snorted ~15 mg, and that was fun and wonky. I went along for a car ride (did not drive obviously) and just enjoyed it. When I got back, I snorted another ~20mg, and that's when shit really hit the fan. I think it may be the highest I've ever been on a disso. I think I holed, because there was a moment where all of a sudden lucidity returned to me. I was still tripping balls, but I looked to my friend and "I think I just came out of a hole." There was all this buzzing noise, and I asked my friend if he heard anything, he was like "no." I turned off his space heater, which was making a lot of the noise, but still, I could hear the buzzing.

Man, I really can't describe it. I was just fucking obliterated. It was so fucking intense. I wish I could articulate it better. If 3-MeO-PCE is going for a nice swim in a placid lake, O-PCE was like being tossed about it a tropical storm.

I tried vaping a little bit, like ~20mg total. It hurt my throat, but I'm pretty sure it worked. Not worth it, though. Insufflated onset was pretty damn quick.

Honestly I think that was one of the most intense trips of my life. It wasn't quite the time I snorted 80 - 100 mg DPT (eyeballed, my first RC). But it earned a spot up there, for sure.

Edit: I remember popping a couple etiz, and I also remember going to bed. But when I woke up this morning, there was only one left in the blister pack. So I may have felt compelled to keep taking them, and then blacked out. I don't still feel tiz'ed out this morning though, which I think I would if I had actually taken 6 or so mg. I just remember taking the first two, because things were getting so fucking intense.

Also, I snorted ~8mg at some time between the first 15 mg line and the 20 mg line. Will definitely be more patient next time! Not that I had a bad trip or anything, but JESUS. It was fucking heavy.

I'm also a bit nauseas this morning. Anyone else get that?