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Stimulants Vyvanse vs instant release Dexamphetamine, is it really better?

G

glab

Bluelighter
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
182
Is anyone here who can comment on this?
Is vyvanse really better for adhd? I watched a vid on youtube from some kind of smart guy who said that
vyvanse is all about money and that it simply kicks in 2 hours later and that's all. Does this make sense?
I mean to me "time-released" means that the active agent is constantly being absorbed. Now if it only kicked in
2 hours later then this wouldn't be time-released then you could as well simply take your normal dexamphetamine 2 hours
later and it would be the same.

I also wonder how likely is it that a person gets along better with a smaller dose of Vyvanse compared to a bigger dose of instant dexamphetamine?

For example if I take 30mg instant Dex throughout the day and don't really "feel" much from it then could it be that the same dose or even a smaller dose
of Vyvanse would still feel different or work better? Or is this unlikely?

I'm asking cause where I live we have vyvanse but the biggest capulse contains 70mg lisdexamphetamine which equals 20mg pure dexamphetamine and this is
a rather small dose. If I take instant dexamphetamine instead then I can dose higher and I can also make much finer adjustements in the doses. I can take 10mg
in the morning and 10mg in the afternoon and 5mg in the evening or I can only take 10mg in the morning and so on. But with vyvanse you have less options.
 
the biggest capulse contains 70mg lisdexamphetamine which equals 20mg pure dexamphetamine
Click to expand...

vyvanase is ~50% D-amphetamine by weight, so 70mg capsule is closer to 35mg total, just released over a longer timespan

if your tolerance is such that you need a high blood level of dexamphetamine to feel it then obviously you're going to need a higher dose of lisdexamphetamine.
 
glab said:
Is anyone here who can comment on this?
Is vyvanse really better for adhd? I watched a vid on youtube from some kind of smart guy who said that
vyvanse is all about money and that it simply kicks in 2 hours later and that's all. Does this make sense?
I mean to me "time-released" means that the active agent is constantly being absorbed. Now if it only kicked in
2 hours later then this wouldn't be time-released then you could as well simply take your normal dexamphetamine 2 hours
later and it would be the same.
Click to expand...

The "kicks in 2 hours later" presumably refers to the fact that Vyvanse is a so-called "pro-drug" - to prevent the drug from being snortable, the amphetamine has been bound to the amino acid lysine, making the resulting molecule ("lisdexamphetamine") too large to act as a stimulant; the drug only becomes active once the lisdexamphetamine passes the liver where the lysine is cleaved off, leaving you with Dextro-Amphetamine. This is different from many other extended-release that are formulated in such a way that a portion of the drug will be released immediately so it still kicks in relatively quickly, and the rest of the drug is released over time to keep the concentration stable after that.

I'm fairly certain, however, that the amphetamine concentration in your blood after taking Vyvanse stays up longer than it would from dexamphetamine, since not all the lisdexamphetamine is immediately processed as soon as it reaches the liver.
 
Hi, thanks for your replies.

I don't know if I should try vyvanse it doesn't really sound that great to me. I'd rather try adderall but we don't have it where I live which really sucks.

I heard a lot of good things about adderall. Maybe getting a small amount of L-Amphetamine isn't that bad after all but it gives you more energy. D-Amphetamine doesn't really energize me. :(
 
I would prefer foclian if your trying to treat ADHD if you want to get high Adderal or ritlan is the way to go vyvance just makes me to calm and twitchy I don't like it it gives me many tics like concerta that med sucks for me too but everyone is different you could try vyvance and let me know how it goes
 
Sambino said:
I would prefer foclian if your trying to treat ADHD if you want to get high Adderal or ritlan is the way to go vyvance just makes me to calm and twitchy I don't like it it gives me many tics like concerta that med sucks for me too but everyone is different you could try vyvance and let me know how it goes
Click to expand...

Concerta is Ritalin.... Just in a extended release tablet.
 
Almost everyone I know prefers vyvanse to adderall when it comes to studying. Most find that vyvanse lasts longer and is much smoother. Lasts longer than adderall ir for sure. Lasts about the same amount of time as adderall xr. However, adderall is 2.5 times as strong. But vyvanse comes in higher dose (ex: 70mg). Adderall ir is probably a little better for recreational purposes. But I definitely prefer adderall xr and vyvanse for work. And I may slightly prefer vyvanse over adderall xr but not by much.

Also, I can feel vyvanse starting to work about 30 minutes after taking it. However, the first time I ever took it, I wasn't really feeling it till like 2 hours later. It seems like the more you take amphetamines, the sooner you can feel them taking effect.
 
I don't have a preference, however, I take adderall, and I ran into a problem. New to this site so I'm not sure how to navigate thru. This is the first that I've been given the option to write anything. My question is, how do I salvage adderall pills that my cLutz of a cat knocked a quarter of a glass of water onto? They immediately started to dissolve, so j just smooshed them into a pile. They no longer look like pills, it's just a blue gooey Mass with blue water surrounding them. How do I salvage my meds so that they are still fully effective? I'm worried that I lost a lot in the water. Help please! ?
 
Hodor said:
The "kicks in 2 hours later" presumably refers to the fact that Vyvanse is a so-called "pro-drug" - to prevent the drug from being snortable, the amphetamine has been bound to the amino acid lysine, making the resulting molecule ("lisdexamphetamine") too large to act as a stimulant; the drug only becomes active once the lisdexamphetamine passes the liver where the lysine is cleaved off, leaving you with Dextro-Amphetamine. This is different from many other extended-release that are formulated in such a way that a portion of the drug will be released immediately so it still kicks in relatively quickly, and the rest of the drug is released over time to keep the concentration stable after that.

I'm fairly certain, however, that the amphetamine concentration in your blood after taking Vyvanse stays up longer than it would from dexamphetamine, since not all the lisdexamphetamine is immediately processed as soon as it reaches the liver.
Click to expand...

This doesnt seem to be exactly true. It is the case that the tmax of d-amphetamine levels from lisdexamphetamine (LDX) vs plain d-amphetamine will be increased (the 2 hour time mentioned). However, LDX is rapidly absorbed from the intestines and does not undergo major first pass or other metabolism via the liver (specifically CYP450 system). The l-lysine is cleaved in the blood via red blood cells, possibly through actions of aminopeptidases or similar enzymes. This hydrolysis in the RBCs seems to be the rate limiting factor and accounts for the slower onset and longer duration.

LDX can be snorted. It is just you get no benefit compared to oral. The kinetic profiles of oral vs intranasal are almost identical, again because it is not absorption nor hepatic metabolism that converts LDX to d-amp, but the enzymes on the RBCs. Even IV administration of LDX shows remarkably similar results as compared to other routes of administration (there seems to be a limit though, over 150mg LDX was deemed more favorable than 40mg straight d-amp in terms of how well it made users feel "high").

Clinicials also find Vyvanse an easier drug to be comfortable prescribing, as there is much less fluctuations from patient to patient in how well LDX delivers d-amp. Sekio is correct that 70mg of LDX is roughly equivalent to 35mg of d-amp, but LDX is much less affected by interpatient variabilities (change in gastric pH, concomittant drugs, effects of food) than other formulations of amphetamines.

So if you want to use Vyvanse to treat ADD/ADHD, it is a completely reliable and effective therapy that can be dosed once daily. You dont need to make the tiny dose changes as you may need to with immediate release products, as plasma levels of d-amp are quite consistent with LDX. It is not uncommon to see a small booster dose of Adderall or Dexedrine to really pump up those levels when most needed, even while on Vyvanse. And 70mg is usually the max dose, but Vyvanse comes in all multiples of 10, starting at 10mg and ending at 70mg. So there is choice, but you will never get the high peaks that many abusers seek in comparison to the IR products.

So tl,dr version. Vyvanse sucks for getting high unless you really push the doses, but delivers astonishingly similar levels of d-amp for most patients who use it as prescribed.
 
I dont get high from ritalin at least not in the doses which I tried. I assume you'd need pretty high doses and even then you could simply get side effects and not get high.
For example you could simply feel jittery and have a racing heart. This isn't really "being high" in my opinion.


Does this mean that LDX is not affected by PH levels like Dexedrine? Does this mean you can take Vyvanse and then drink fruit juices and use tons of vitamin C and it still won't
be flushed out of the body any faster?

This worries me. I mean what if I don't "feel" dexedrine because of being too acidic? I drink a lot of coffee.
 
LDX is absorbed and starts converting to d-amp really quickly (sometimes less than 1 hour). I forget the exact numbers but something like only 0.7% of actual lisdexamphetamine can be recovered after several hours. (I will find the info and update my response). But once the lysine is cleaved, you have d-amp remaining and acidifying your urine will enhance its excretion.

To put it clearly, it is not the lisdexamphetamine that is responsible for Vyvanse's action, it is still dextroamphetamine that is the active agent. It just takes more time for d-amp levels to rise in the blood, but the effects last longer, but with less intensity. Anything that people do to help potentiate the effects of d-amp (or lessen them) can be attempted with Vyvanse.
 
Dude, I take Vyvanse and I gotta tell you I think it is bad ass. It kicks in about an hour after I take it and the arc is smooooth all day long, with excellent focus and zero crash. he only thing is if I don't eat I get cranky as hell, same as everything else. Don't take it past 8am if you want to sleep before midnight because for me at least it ain't 12 hours, more like 14+.

Also, I repeatedly hear people say you can't use it recreationally and that is some bullshit. I know this because when we were figuring out doses I had two scripts one for 20 and one for 40, and I took 60 to see if that was the right dose? JFC was I high and way uncomfortable,. It was way too much for me. I don't abuse these meds.
 
What would really be interesting to know is wether Vyvanse gets more dextroamphetamine in the blood than an equal dose of dexedrine IR.
Is it possible that when you take dexedrine IR a bigger part of the dexamphetamine is destroyed in the stomach and that vyvanse has advantages because of this?

But again, I usually take dexedrine under the tongue. This method should also deliver more dexamphetamine into the blood than simply swallowing, right?
But even when I take 10 dexedrine under the tongue I don't really "feel" it. I don't feel euphoric or super focused. Why is that? :(

@ fig

Do you also have experience with instant release dexamphetamine so that you know the difference?
The problem is that when I take dexedrine IR i dont feel an onset nor do I feel a comedown. If vyvanse is even "smoother" than dexedrine IR then I'd probably feel even less.
 
glab said:
What would really be interesting to know is wether Vyvanse gets more dextroamphetamine in the blood than an equal dose of dexedrine IR.
Is it possible that when you take dexedrine IR a bigger part of the dexamphetamine is destroyed in the stomach and that vyvanse has advantages because of this?

But again, I usually take dexedrine under the tongue. This method should also deliver more dexamphetamine into the blood than simply swallowing, right?
But even when I take 10 dexedrine under the tongue I don't really "feel" it. I don't feel euphoric or super focused. Why is that? :(

@ fig

Do you also have experience with instant release dexamphetamine so that you know the difference?
The problem is that when I take dexedrine IR i dont feel an onset nor do I feel a comedown. If vyvanse is even "smoother" than dexedrine IR then I'd probably feel even less.
Click to expand...

I think there are several studies comparing dextroamphetamine vs lisdexamphetamine in regards to blood levels of d-amp. I cant check this minute but will find them.

Personally btw I only find Vyvanse useful for recreational purposes only in higher doses, with 140mg being the best.
 
Last edited:
That would be great!

I need to know what's better. If vyvanse is better then I have to give it a try.
 
Hodor said:
The "kicks in 2 hours later" presumably refers to the fact that Vyvanse is a so-called "pro-drug" - to prevent the drug from being snortable, the amphetamine has been bound to the amino acid lysine, making the resulting molecule ("lisdexamphetamine") too large to act as a stimulant; the drug only becomes active once the lisdexamphetamine passes the liver where the lysine is cleaved off, leaving you with Dextro-Amphetamine. This is different from many other extended-release that are formulated in such a way that a portion of the drug will be released immediately so it still kicks in relatively quickly, and the rest of the drug is released over time to keep the concentration stable after that.

I'm fairly certain, however, that the amphetamine concentration in your blood after taking Vyvanse stays up longer than it would from dexamphetamine, since not all the lisdexamphetamine is immediately processed as soon as it reaches the liver.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is my understanding of it as well. I was prescribed it briefly, but switched back to Adderall.

For one thing, vyvansse lasts TOO long. It has a different type of effect when it comes to concentration and focus. In other words, it doesn't have the same rush as Adderall, which is what people like. Vyvanse has a more slow burning, yet persistent feeling.

Hope that helps.
 
I would have and take 30mg ir Adderall and dexedrine IR than Vyvanse anyday I love ir dexedrine nothing comes close imo.
 
Im on 100mg right now i like Vyvanse better because i don't have to re-dose throughout the day
 
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