Mental Health Narcissism Support Thread

[nuttynutskin]

Did you watch any of the video?

 

[SluttyPeach]

I did, and the psychiatrist told me the same things in a nutshell and at first I didn't think it was true but it is.. And suggested I stay single for a while.

 

[nuttynutskin]

The narcissist family member I'm currently having to live with who's also delusional and a conspiracy theorist (among other things) took it upon themselves to send me an email about the dangers of vaccines and how a vaccine they had gave them type II diabetes and a deficiency in vitamin d and b 12. Like it couldn't be the fact they eat like shit and don't take care of themselves. I'm used to their Munchausen shit and normally wouldn't have cared, but towards the end of the email they said they also believed their son's autism was from childhood vaccines. I've never been diagnosed with autism in my entire life so needlessly to say I'm pissed. What's more is this was a forwarded email meaning they also had sent it out to other people they know. I responded back with something along the lines of "What the hell is wrong with you?". Of course the next day they try to act like nothing's wrong but I'm still ready to box. Perhaps needless to say I'm not currently talking to them.

Besides that, another thread got me thinking about doctors and narcissism and I stumbled upon this article which I thought was interesting...

http://thenarcissisticlife.com/narcissistic-doctors/

 

[Asclepius]

If you are raised by a narcissistic parent and want to have a 'normal life' - it's very difficult - esp if you understand the wound of the parent and it too in yourself - having kids, isn't an option unless you want them to go through the same drama and turmoil, you did.

It's an ongoing disease; a battle of wills where you'll never be respected for your decisions - no matter how much you prove yourself realistically, it's never validated - constantly undermined; it's just a game; one that you can't win - like vegas - it's built to suck you dry ...no recognition, you will never be validated by the narcissist and if you are; it's while your doing well and trying but when you reach your goal - all of a sudden; you're knocked down - some insidious, sabotage comes to pass and you're left to pick up the pieces - yet they take NO responsibility.

It's a futile exercise in life to be brainwashed by these types - if all you have is fight - then fight - may not get you to where you wanted but at least you're you and have the ability to put your stamp on your life - that is defo WORTH something.

 

[Asclepius]

Serious Narcissist imo - very endearing and from a hugely damaged background. Thing is, generally, people who display this trait prominently; are usually lovely - they're damaged and were usually* severly, neglected emotionally - but just over-compensate - hence the narcissism.

However, they can be lethally toxic if you challenge their sense of self - which can be triggered by whatever wound, they incurred as a small child - they never got the love/validation/acceptance that most humans need from their parents - usually suffered some form of neglect.


Wish the internet quit portraying people with NPD as psychopaths - know that people who are Psychopaths; have Narcissistic characteristics but there is a difference between Narcissists and Psychopaths - one is human; the other's brain is wired differently, can not feel emotional pain. The Narcissist deny's emotional pain but have feelings and empathy - given how strong their condition is; these negative characteristics are negligible (and subject to positive change through consistent positive experience imo) - essentially, they want-to be/aspire to be Psychopaths; because they can not tolerate the neglect/abuse they have experienced - so lost that they can't find solace in anyone or anything - will avoid feelings at any cost - BUT they feel them and they are afraid they will crumble because of them.

As they get older - they mellow; psycho-social competition is less intense; so they react less - life isn't such a war for them. The projection of the harsh parent on to society can't be proved.

Have compassion for damaged people - its how healing happens. Most people aren't born 'bad'; most are presenting the symptoms of what they/we lack.

 

[nuttynutskin]

If you are raised by a narcissistic parent and want to have a 'normal life' - it's very difficult - esp if you understand the wound of the parent and it too in yourself - having kids, isn't an option unless you want them to go through the same drama and turmoil, you did.

I don't disagree with the first part but I don't get what you're on about as far as not having kids. What would me having kids (not that I even plan to) have anything to do with having a narcissistic parent? It seems that you're trying to shift the blame to me when I'm not the one suffering from NPD.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Serious Narcissist imo - very endearing and from a hugely damaged background. Thing is, generally, people who display this trait prominently; are usually lovely - they're damaged and were usually* severly, neglected emotionally - but just over-compensate - hence the narcissism.

I would hardly describe narcissist as "lovely". They might seem that way when it suits their motives but they're a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Wish the internet quit portraying people with NPD as psychopaths - know that people who are Psychopaths; have Narcissistic characteristics but there is a difference between Narcissists and Psychopaths - one is human; the other's brain is wired differently, can not feel emotional pain.

IMO it's a spectrum, much how Asperger's syndrome is now just considered part of the autism spectrum. On one side you have the narcissist and on the extreme end you have the psychopath.

The Narcissist deny's emotional pain but have feelings and empathy - given how strong their condition is; these negative characteristics are negligible (and subject to positive change through consistent positive experience imo) - essentially, they want-to be/aspire to be Psychopaths; because they can not tolerate the neglect/abuse they have experienced - so lost that they can't find solace in anyone or anything - will avoid feelings at any cost - BUT they feel them and they are afraid they will crumble because of them.

Again I'm going to have to disagree. Someone who has NPD is not going to empathize with people and I would hardly describe their negative characteristics as negligible. I certainly don't believe that their characteristics are subject to positive change. A narcissist who is getting adequate narcissistic supply might seem to be happy and well functioning but once that supply is taken away their narcissism will show itself again in true colors.

As they get older - they mellow; psycho-social competition is less intense; so they react less - life isn't such a war for them. The projection of the harsh parent on to society can't be proved.

I think there are a few ways narcissists change as they get older but I would not considering it mellowing. If anything from what I've experienced they can get worse in some ways.

Have compassion for damaged people - its how healing happens. Most people aren't born 'bad'; most are presenting the symptoms of what they/we lack.

Having compassion is fine, but IMO when dealing with genuine narcissists one has to put themselves first. I know that sounds narcissistic also, but IMO narcissists are toxic people and while you can have compassion for them it's best to have limited to no content if you value your own mental well being.

Touching video, although I have no idea what it has to do with NPD.

 

[un kle fukka]

To support narcissism - is to to enable your self to separate from the truth, or is it?

 

[Asclepius]

I would hardly describe narcissist as "lovely". They might seem that way when it suits their motives but they're a wolf in sheep's clothing.



IMO it's a spectrum, much how Asperger's syndrome is now just considered part of the autism spectrum. On one side you have the narcissist and on the extreme end you have the psychopath.

Yes. They are damaged- they play games on an extreme level and use and discard people at a whim. They try to stay disconnected from their humanity and true-self through sheer, force of will and a rigid internal doctrine - they suffer because of this but fail to learn meaningful lessons because they blame themselves as harshly as they blame others.

Again I'm going to have to disagree. Someone who has NPD is not going to empathize with people and I would hardly describe their negative characteristics as negligible. I certainly don't believe that their characteristics are subject to positive change. A narcissist who is getting adequate narcissistic supply might seem to be happy and well functioning but once that supply is taken away their narcissism will show itself again in true colors.

True. Someone who has no empathy for themselves is not going to be able to empathise with another - they believe their own bullshit, essentially. They are obsessed with power which they try to create and maintain by any means and will obsessively try to hold on to it - they are afraid/terrified of feelings of vulnerability; which as we all know, mimics death - however they have never learned to face these feelings so compartmentalise them and use them to drive their anger/rage - in order to protect themselves, and maintain a power-status, as they see it.

I think there are a few ways narcissists change as they get older but I would not considering it mellowing. If anything from what I've experienced they can get worse in some ways.

This may be true - all depends on what we've experienced individually. Facing old-age is difficult for anyone; for the narcissist it is worse, as they believe power, control and perfection to be the most important qualities on which we are judged; not being able to control this image any longer and the realisation of this, means that they may become depressed, paranoid or, become more enlightened to reality. Like a lot of things, these situations are also determined by the individual person and how their environment, influences them.

Having compassion is fine, but IMO when dealing with genuine narcissists one has to put themselves first. I know that sounds narcissistic also, but IMO narcissists are toxic people and while you can have compassion for them it's best to have limited to no content if you value your own mental well being.

I agree. I also think that having compassion is not exclusive to putting your own needs first. The two are mutual states.
Compassion can not exist without having self-compassion, also.
This is a fundamental truth that the narcissist has never learnt and if anything, would be very healing for them to be present to; when dealing with them.

Touching video, although I have no idea what it has to do with NPD.

When you see how Narcissism is fuelled and cemented by social forces - e.g. family, sexual/social competition, school/work systems (various industries; in this example Music/Art) - these areas have a profound, influence on moulding and shaping individuals and groups. Yes, it's a spectrum and in order to define characteristics of Narcissism at any level, I think it's important to recognise them in social areas of life.

In the 1970's -80's the music industry's creation; the punk movement was brought into the mainstream and popular consciousness; in Britain by Malcolm Mclaren (himself, a pretty ambitious damaged and power hungry individual; who experienced a very damaging relationship with his own mother). Rotten; the cantankerous and angsty front man, was an excellent prop for McLaren's vision, Vicious later became the poster-boy due to his severe vulnerabilities, masked into a hyper-bad-boy, rebel, persona by his fatal addiction and issues - very tragic. However, these media-'pawns' weren't viewed as such - they were disposable profit-making, props - yet, this was socially acceptable at the time; it was actually, celebrated. He talked of how, at the time, McLaren completely used them and manipulated them. He himself, could see the slow-impending destruction of Vicious (who like every other media sensation fell victim to iconography and martyrdom - after his death - hence creating more money and publicity for the vultures of capitalism). Rotten, later said how he regretted his friends death and how nobody, had done enough to address the situation - this was a narcissistic, environment - 'everyone for themselves' - victims created and profited from, while they were useful.
Around the time, also, Paedophile rings within the BBC were being ignored.
Every generation and cultural milieu will present this type of situation, in various guises. It is a reflection of our own internal processes - whether we feed it or not, is a choice.

I guess my point being, that Narcissism is fuelled by an intricate and multi-layered environment, also. Individuals who are Narcissistic are not born but made. Nurture is a huge factor (not just re family background exclusively). This being the case, and depending on the degree to which the individual is deluded by their Narcissism - self-awareness can be achieved imo. However, in an environment which fosters Narcissistic qualities above all else - usually a 'Psychopathic' environment, where it's a concentrated case of 'eat or be eaten' to survive - narcissistic traits are the only ones which logically will keep this person, surviving. Positive reinforcement of these traits by an environment that supports them, fuels the condition.

An individual will 'carry' this environment in their psychology for fear of being destroyed - even if the threat of psychological annihilation from such circumstances no longer exists - the narcissist will perpetuate it by their actions; doing this out of fear and project.
Superficially, this is loathsome to encounter and fall victim to but at a distance and understanding the underlying mechanics of their unconscious strategy -and it is unconscious - we can understand that this behaviour is just an acting-out of deeper, internal fears.
I am not implying that the behaviour is benign - it isn't, obviously but fundamentally, it stems from delusion and disconnection from a healthy-self. Hence, why we need to implement strong boundaries and a healthy sense of self, for ourselves in the presence of such damage.

I don't disagree with the first part but I don't get what you're on about as far as not having kids. What would me having kids (not that I even plan to) have anything to do with having a narcissistic parent? It seems that you're trying to shift the blame to me when I'm not the one suffering from NPD.

This quote wasn't directed to you, personally Nutty. It was a generalisation.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I actually agree with most of that. The nature vs nurture I think is debatable. I personally think that people can be born with a stronger predisposition to becoming a narcissist, or on the extreme end a psychopath. Either way I am curious as to why you think it's not an option for someone to have kids that's suffered from narcissistic abuse.

 

[paranoid android]

People like myself are out there. Just have to look. If someone is doing you wrong...then just say "this bird has flown!"

Its easy to meet people. Meeting the right ones are hard. I've been on scores of first dates, but I have slowed down on that in the last few years. Trying to work on making me like me before I try for someone else liking me.

I used to be the consummate womanizer. Basically, if you don't value yourself you are going to end up with me like how I was in my early twenties. I cared so little if I hurt others as long as I was having a good time. Wear your confidence like a badge of courage and naturally good dudes will see that and want to spend time with you. You know what finally took me down? A woman said no to me. I stayed with her for three years. Crazy RIGHT?

Jesus i coulda wrote that myself. In my early 20's id literally shag any chick i found hot and be gone the next day. I never hurt any of them i don't think because i never promised anything more then a shag really. With all the booze, Crack, benzos, opiates and the rest i was on back then i was hardly in any shape for a relationship and didn't really want to inflict that on anyone to be honest. So i just kept picking up women from pubs and by morning i was lucky if i could remember their first name. Makes me feel like a twat now that i think of it.

However i was a total cunt back in those days to alot of people so i hurt alot of people unintentionally because i just didn't care. And yup i got fucked over big time by a g/f too . Live and learn

 

[nuttynutskin]

An article I found interesting on narcissism and society...

Narcissism: On the Rise in America?

Dr. Jim Taylor
Adjunct faculty, University of San Francisco

Posted: 05/28/2011 9:11 am EDT Updated: 07/28/2011 5:12 am EDT

Do you know the story of Narcissus? He was the very handsome fellow in Greek mythology who, because of his indifference and disdain toward others, was punished by the gods by falling in love with his own image. He was so enraptured by his beauty that he was unable to pull himself away from his own reflection, and he wasted away and died.

Well, according to recent research (to be discussed below), Narcissus has spawned many offspring in our current generation, and narcissism is alive and well and living in America. Just so we are all on the same wavelength, narcissism is a personality characteristic associated with self-absorption, egocentrism, an overestimation of one's own importance and abilities, a sense of entitlement and a disregard for others.

One study found that 30 percent of young people were classified as narcissistic according to a widely used psychological test. That number has doubled in the last 30 years. Another study reported a 40-percent decline among young people in empathy, a personality attribute inversely related to narcissism, since the 1980s.

These findings aren't surprising to anyone who pays attention to the "it's all about me" culture in which we currently live. My questions are where this rise in narcissism is coming from and what impact it will have on our society in the future.

One obvious place where young people are learning about narcissism is our omnipresent and unrelenting popular culture. A study by the celebrity psychiatrist Dr. Drew, in which 200 "celebrities" (I put the word in quotes because the threshold for being considered a celebrity these days has declined significantly) completed the Narcissistic Personality Inventory, found that -- here's a shocker -- they were significantly more narcissistic than the general population. Interestingly, the celebrities who actually had a talent (for example, musicians) tended to be less narcissistic. Guess who were the most self-absorbed celebrities? Female reality-TV stars! It's not surprising that those celebrities who were famous for being famous were the most narcissistic; their narcissism drove them to become celebrities.

Another fascinating study that was just published explored the changes in music lyrics over the past three decades. The researchers found a significant shift toward lyrics that reflect narcissism ("I" and "me" appear more often "we" and "us") and hostility (change from positive to angry words and emotions). And these findings aren't just due to the increased popularity and influence of hip-hop music (which is known for its aggrandizement of the artists and its venom), but rather are evident across musical genres.

And you don't need to go far to collect your own data on narcissism. Do these names ring a bell: Charlie Sheen, Terrell Owens and Kanye West?

It's not surprising to see a rise in narcissism in this generation given that young people are being bombarded by these messages 24/7 through every form of media. And here's the truly disturbing part: How can young people these days avoid being infected with this "disease" when, thanks to the "wired" world in which they live, the majority of messages they receive venerate and encourage narcissism?

The self-esteem movement has likely contributed to this increase in self-adoration. Many parents these days do everything they can to make their children feel good about themselves. The result has been a decline in real self-esteem and an increase in self-love and unjustifiable personal "exceptionalism."

Also, technology and social media have done their part to promote narcissism. All of the time spent absorbed in screens has reduced the amount of actual human (i.e., face-to-face) interaction that children have, thus depriving them of the experiences needed to develop essential social skills such as empathy, compassion and consideration for others.

Certainly, the shift in societal values away from collectivism and toward individualism ("You're on your own"), away from civic responsibility and toward self-gratification, and away from meaningful contributions to society and toward personal success (as defined by wealth, power and status), have also contributed to the cultural messages of narcissism in which young people are presently immersed.

It's one thing to see that there is a growing number of narcissists in America today. But the real concern is not the individual narcissists among us, but when our society embraces and accepts narcissism as the norm. And that time may have arrived. That's when we have to start asking the next question, which is far scarier: What effect will this increasingly normalized culture of narcissism have on our society?

You might argue that narcissism has existed for as long as Homo sapiens has populated planet Earth, and we've managed to survive. In fact, some researchers have argued that the recent rise in narcissism is due more to this generation's willingness to express what they really believe rather than an actual increase in narcissism. But there seems to be a qualitative, rather just a quantitative, shift in so many aspects of our culture that I just don't buy that explanation.

The answer that came most readily to my mind, and an apocryphal one at that, is a gradual yet inexorable tear in the fabric of our society. Think of all the qualities that enable us to form a functioning and vital nation -- respect, compassion, tolerance, selflessness -- and you will see that they don't exist in the narcissistic personality (or culture). Gosh, I just had a really terrifying thought. The indifference, egotism, disrespect and lack of consideration that are central to narcissism are also reflective of the increasingly polarized and vitriolic tone of our current body politic, recent unethical corporate behavior, the rise in cheating among students in school and the gamut of bad behavior among professional athletes. As Pogo noted so famously, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

This is definitely not a rosy picture and definitely not one to encourage an optimistic view of the future. Should we see this trend as just another sign of the impending death of the American empire? The cynic in me (and those who follow my writing know that it fills a big portion of my brain) would offer an emphatic "yes!"

Yet the optimist in me (small, but stubborn) holds out some hope. I don't mean to demonize and indict this entire generation. In fact, there are a lot of amazing young people out there. I speak at schools around the U.S. and I meet kids (I know I'm getting old when I call them that!) who are motivated, engaged, respectful and compassionate. Many young people are bucking the trend and are resisting the lure of the "dark side." And they are our best hope for beating back the onslaught of narcissism and keeping the best of humanity alive and well and living in America.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-jim-taylor/narcissism-america_b_861887.html

 

[alasdairm]

maybe our next president?

Is Donald Trump Actually a Narcissist? Therapists Weigh In!

For mental-health professionals, Donald Trump is at once easily diagnosed but slightly confounding. “Remarkably narcissistic,” said developmental psychologist Howard Gardner, a professor at Harvard Graduate School of Education. “Textbook narcissistic personality disorder,” echoed clinical psychologist Ben Michaelis. “He’s so classic that I’m archiving video clips of him to use in workshops because there’s no better example of his characteristics,” said clinical psychologist George Simon, who conducts lectures and seminars on manipulative behavior. “Otherwise, I would have had to hire actors and write vignettes. He’s like a dream come true.”

alasdair

 

[nuttynutskin]

Well it's no surprise that narcissists are attracted to positions of power. I'd say a good percentage of people in politics probably are narcissists or even worse psychopaths.

 

[nuttynutskin]

that's why it's called 'gaslighting'. it is named for the movie.

alasdair

I'm not one to cross-post hardly ever, but here's a pretty good example of gaslighting on a national level that I posted in the CEP...

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...donald-trump-is-conning-america-with-his-lies

 

[pbuilder]

I think I was raised by narcissists. I'm worried I might have inherited a lot of the traits myself now because it was just the way I was raised. I'm trying to consciously make an effort to avoid narcissistic behaviour, but it can be challenging.

It's so weird, I never realised it until recently. If I start having a convo with my parents, it takes about 5 seconds for the conversation to go entirely back to their life (and never gets back to the initial topic) even if I was opening up about something in my life. When I'm watching TV with my parents, my mom tells me about why she hates basically everyone on most tv shows lol. If I'm driving with her in the car, she is the ultimate back seat driver and explains to me how everyone else on the road is doing something wrong.

Maybe I'm wrong but it explains a lot now that I've done some researching into NPD. I think it is a spectrum disorder, and everyone to an extent is on it in my opinion as human beings are relatively selfish by nature, but most people are very low on the spectrum and it doesn't effect their life or the people around them's life at all, and some people are just higher on the spectrum and much more selfish and exhibit that "the world revolves around me" persona.

I'm am very self centred when I look back at my behaviours throughout my life though, I've definitely been a massive fucker to certain people.

 

[nuttynutskin]

I'm currently living with a family member whom I believe has NPD and the longer I do the harder it is to keep it from rubbing off on me. I know it has to a degree and I hate it because it's hard to even realize sometimes. As far as the spectrum I don't entirely agree because I don't think everyone is narcissistic. A lot of people may exhibit narcissistic behavior once in a while but that alone doesn't make them a narcissist. I do however think narcissism is on a bit of a spectrum clinically. For example on one side you have your average narcissist who is controlling but isn't violent or breaking the law, and on the other you have a psychopath who becomes a mass murderer. This of course is just a theory.

Here's Vaknin's take...

 

[nuttynutskin]

A vid on setting boundaries with dysfunctional family members. I personally found it scary how spot on this guy is...

 

[WhatWorks33]

For the last 9 months out of 13 months together I've been having an internal struggle with my logic and my emotions and self doubt due to a very cunning gaslighter. He's not physically abusive but he's very manipulative and charming that no one can see the manipulation. He's the epitome of Rihanna's "Love the way you lie."

I can usually only call him out on it when I have a few drinks and my wall between logic and emotion comes down but the next day I apologize for being so "irrational". He knows just how long to stonewall and isolate to make me not quite give up entirely but then to be relieved when he finally calls and let's me stroke his ego with how much I love him and I didn't mean any of what I said etc etc etc. .. but deep down I always knew I meant it.

Well Saturday night he stood me up after not seeing me for almost 2 weeks (he's 54 and I'm 33, so there's definitely an element of control he likes but won't admit) so I got some wine and watched some television home alone. Well, I got tipsy and he called when he was driving home from wherever he'd been and i was already hurt and brooding with my wine that when he said something about how some girl hit on him or asked for his number or whatever else to inspire jealousy and doubt in me and I went off and said I'm not going to have a bad night "asshat" and hung up the phone.

The next day he told me he has felt we weren't going to work for a while and asshat sealed the deal... I for the first time in a long time felt confident enough to say, "that's fine, I wish you luck!"

Every day since he has been sending me pretty mundane texts asking about my day etc and I've been super short with answers like "k" and "yep". Late tonight I got a whole novel of illegible gibberish texts from him obviously drunk and I told him I wasn't going to respond to things I cannot read and so he called and I had no heart palpitations if anxiety and no sense that I would be making a hugely terrible decision so when he said, "if you don't tell me youre sorry about saying asshat then I'm gone!" (Really? That was the subject of your ire and it's been nagging you that hard for 4 days?!)

I was kind of baffled since he said we were over 4 days prior so I said "ok well you already are gone so..." and click His timing must have been off on making that oh so familiar "you know you can't let me go or leave me, I have you wrapped around my pinky finger," phone call post break up. Or I'm just tired of feeling isolated and like a shell of myself because 13 months ago I was full of vibrance and booming with confidence. I hope when he sobers up today and tries to reach out, I can stick to my current numb state and resist his cajoling.

 

[nuttynutskin]

After reading an email from a family member I sort of just had an epiphany of sorts. I've probably had it before but forgot about it. But either way, I think one of the biggest problems in my life is that I've never been encouraged to make my own decisions. It's always been about what other people think is best. Which is one of the reasons I think I became rebellious and also why I sit here 35 years old and have no idea what I want in life. A lot of time to just get out of it so I don't have to deal with the constant bullshit anymore.

Oh and good for you WhatWorks33. I hope you were able to stay strong.