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Phenibut withdrawal help

H

Hedonistica

Bluelighter
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
116
I posted a while ago about some paradoxical effects I was getting from Phenibut - twitching fingers and heartbeat whooshing in ear.

I stupidly started phenibut a couple of months ago at a very stressful time, and ended up using daily - at one point I was doing 4 grams a day, max, and once I figured out the twitches and heartbeat in ear were down to the Phenibut, I cut right back.

Unfortunately I am still living in stress central, and can't jump off the phenibut entirely. I tried a couple of times and ended up having major panic/anxiety attacks, with a sense of imepending doom and that I was going to die, my heart felt like it was a marshmallow wobbling in my chest and I ended up feeling depersonalisation and derealisation, with the worst fear I have ever felt in my life, and everything getting magnified into a huge threat.

I've got down to about 1.1g a day, though sometimes if I can finally get to sleep, I will wake in the middle of the night and have to do anout 600mg to ease off the panic. I need to get through work and don't have the luxury of taking a week off.

How hard, realistically, should getting off 1 - 1.5g a day be? I've made the mistake of trying to reduce very quickly which just leads to massive rebound anxiety.

So, am planning to try to stabilise for a few days on 1.1g and then hopefully reduce a little bit more until I can jump off. I had a tub of the powder with a 300mg scoop but have ordered 90 250mg pills hoping the smaller dose will help my reduction and final escape.

Any help or support would be appreciated.

ETA: I didn't think I had any problems dropping from 4g to 1g, in fact felt a lot better, I was feeling very angry and hostile on 4g, very unlike me - but now on around about 1g - 1.5g am getting the huge anxiety, though wonder how much of it is rebound and how much from the many stressful things that have happened all at once (which doesn't make getting off the Phenibut any easier whatever the case!)
 
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I've realised I've been doing 1.8g during a 24 hour period - so a morning and nightly dose of 600mg each, then the 600mg in the middle of the night to steal some sleep.

Yesterday I managed on 1750, and for the first time in a long time I didn't have to get up at 4am to dose and actually got some sleep, but I guess it's wise to start my taper from 1750 rather than 1.2, otherwise it may be too big a drop? I might try to stabilise on 1750mg for a few days then start a gradual drop.

I am using kratom to try to stifle some of the anxiety, and at the moment feel OK. The biggest problem with this stuff seems to be that if you wait too long to dose, the withdrawal starts to kick in, and then when you dose it takes about 3 hours to start working. I suppose on the plus side there isn't the psychological association between dosing and almost immediate relief, as with opiates.

If anyone has any words of support I would be grateful.
 
Hey man, I hope you're doing OK. I think I know what you're going through, I've been through some pretty severe WDs myself, you're not alone. I don't have any experience with phenibut but I do have a lot of experience with withdrawing from downers. They key is to keep it slow. If you're feeling 1.8g a day is manageable you should probably keep taking that dose for a few weeks until you start to stabilize. Then you should reduce your dose by no more than 10% every 4 weeks. So the first reduction would be down to 540mg 3 times a day, if you don't feel comfortable lowering your dose again in 4 weeks wait a bit longer, there's no need to rush. You need to keep it slow and don't push too hard. Hang in there!
 
Did you taper off a benzo? I did a 3-4 week inpatient hospital supervision klonopin/heroin wd which during dropped kpin to phenobarb tapper was one.of the worsts i felt physically in my life but anyond can pull thru wds they suck but you feel better down the long run!!
 
RiseAgain said:
Hey man, I hope you're doing OK. I think I know what you're going through, I've been through some pretty severe WDs myself, you're not alone. I don't have any experience with phenibut but I do have a lot of experience with withdrawing from downers. They key is to keep it slow. If you're feeling 1.8g a day is manageable you should probably keep taking that dose for a few weeks until you start to stabilize. Then you should reduce your dose by no more than 10% every 4 weeks. So the first reduction would be down to 540mg 3 times a day, if you don't feel comfortable lowering your dose again in 4 weeks wait a bit longer, there's no need to rush. You need to keep it slow and don't push too hard. Hang in there!
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Thank you. I am somehow surviving, my body seems to shut down for about half an hour at some point after tossing and turning in bed for 10 hours. which is nowhere near enough sleep but maybe enough to just survive. I tend to overreact to things a lot, some friends have really let me down and I live alone, so don't have any support around me which when going through WD of any kind can really make it so much worse.

I really appreciate your words and advice I will bear the taper schedule in mind to keep slow and steady. Thanks again.
 
Tromps said:
Did you taper off a benzo? I did a 3-4 week inpatient hospital supervision klonopin/heroin wd which during dropped kpin to phenobarb tapper was one.of the worsts i felt physically in my life but anyond can pull thru wds they suck but you feel better down the long run!!
Click to expand...

Thanks, it's useful to know others have pulled through!
 
I've been getting incredibly bad stomach cramps while trying to relax in my bed, has happened a couple of nights now - last night I was playing a relaxation recording when I got a tight pain around my chest and abdomen, obviously with my anxiety levels I started to think it was a heart attack and it was all I could do not to start going into a full blown panic attack - but then all night I could feel something moving around in my guts, but it never got to the point where I could expel it, if you get what I mean, it just seemed to keep moving around and causing lots of discomfort.

I looked up benzo belly and guess this could also apply to phenibut. The strange thing with the phenibut is, when I was doing up to 4g a day, I was feeling more stressed, irritable, angry and hostile and had all kinds of weird symptoms like twitches and echoing heartbeats. These stopped as soon as I slashed the dosage.

Now I can't make my mind up if I'm still having side effects or if the symptoms are from withdrawal. For a couple of nights I have managed to get through the night without having to dose - I pretty much haven't slept, but I haven't thought I'd go crazy with panic if I didn't redose. Maybe this is a good sign, if only I could get some sleep it would help!
 
Am still not needing to dose during the night, but I can't sleep at all. Mind you I wasn't sleeping when I was doing higher doses of phenibut either. I actually cut my dosage by 300mg yesterday and actually felt more relaxed - though still couldn't sleep.

I've got some l-theanine on the way and hope this might help. Valerian, dipenhydramine, etc, don't seem to be working at all...

At the moment my anxiety levels feel managable, it's the exhaustion but lying awake for 10 hours that's really getting to me just now, and another day to somehow get through! At least I am not working tomorrow and then have a couple of days to try to rest.
 
This shit is a bitch. After dropping by 300mg yesterday, despite not sleeping I felt Ok and so took a smaller morning dose. By mid afternoon I was going into full blown panic attacks and thinking I was going to die, I then had to dose 600mg and somehow get through work for 3 hours while I waited for it to kick in, really thinking I was having a heart attack most of the time.

Tonight I have dosed 600mg and will follow the advice above by trying to level out, although my new supply hasn't arrived yet and if not at my office by Friday I may end up with an enforced rapid taper. I hate this stuff but am handcuffed to it until i can start reducing the dosage :(
 
How are you doing? Have you considered asking a doctor for help?

I'm getting a bit worried about the approach you're taking, GABAergic drugs can be very dangerous to withdraw from, the panic attacks are the least of your worries. You seem to be compulsively changing your dose, please stop doing that, it is very dangerous. You could have a seizure, damage your heart or permanently damage your central nervous system. The worst thing that can happen with withdrawals from GABAergics is death. It is very important that you plan out your taper and stick to the plan. Please stop reducing your dose compulsively.

If your supply doesn't arrive in time you will have to get help from a doctor. I think it could be really dangerous for you to do a rapid taper given how much difficulty you're having.

Please be careful
 
Thanks, I am sticking to the plan as best I can now - did 600mg at bedtime and actually slept for the first time in weeks. Woke up about 8 hours later, took my first 600mg for today, and dozed for another 3 hours, plan will be to dose another 600mg at teatime then at bedtime, and keep with that as it seems to be keeping me stable for now.

I think I have enough to get me through until next week, when if I need to I can order something special next day delivery and take it from there. Otherwise I will certainly consider the doctor route.

Should I be getting such serious rebound anxiety from such relatively small doses? There are stories of people coming of 5,6, 10 grams a day and I never went near that and this is only a couple of months rather than years etc?
 
I must admit RiseAgain your post made me feel quite anxious but thanks for your help. Have decided not to take any chances and have ordered a bunch of capsules for next day delivery tomorrow - the capsules are 250mg so I might need to adjust the dose schedule slightly (have been using the powder with 300mg scoops). Would it be safe to try dropping to 500mg (ie 2 capsules) for each dose, or 2 doses of that and then a night time of 750mg to take me up to around the 1.8g mark for the day? I do have some micro scales so could possibly empty the capsules out and measure, if this goes on any longer I guess I might need to order another tub of bulk powder but I'm worried the longer I stay on this crap the more addicted my body will become!

Or I can continue with the 600mg doses until the powder runs out, then try switching down to 500mg?

If anyone has any thoughts or has been through this please help, I've read a lot of threads but read everything from people quitting CT with few bad effects, to rapid drops, to some mild discomfort, to people with psychotic epsidodes (albeit from huge doses!)
 
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I have a tub of 200mg l-theanine, I took one yesterday but not sure if it helped at all. If I do drop by 100mg a dose at some point, might it be helpful to start taking the l-theanine then to gently start rebooting the gaba production?
 
I'm happy to see you're doing a bit better, keep it up! Sorry, I didn't mean to make you anxious.

I get pretty bad rebound anxiety from benzos, even if I only take them for a few days in a row and in low doses so I would imagine phenibut could cause similar reactions. It doesn't matter If some guy was able to go cold turkey from 10g a day, if it's not manageable for you don't do it. Everyone reacts to withdrawals differently, I usually go cold turkey and isolate myself and ride it out but that's not for everyone. You need to stick with what you are able to cope with.

I think it would be a good idea to split open some of the capsulses and weight them out, maybe take two caps and then weight out another 100mg for your doses. Don't worry about becoming more dependent, as long as you are lowering your doses and not increasing them you''re body will be becoming less dependent no matter how long it takes.

I have no idea if l-theanine would help, do whatever makes you feel better.

Keep up the good work, it takes a lot of strength to do this on your own.
 
Thanks Rise Again, everything is making me anxious lately, in the end it looks like I have plenty of bulk powder left - plus the original order arrived after I spent a fortune on weekend delivery on another batch... I just went into a blind panic worrying I would run out before the end of the weekend and end up in hospital or something. I think I will plan to use the powder for a few days and stay on 600mg in 3 doses, then perhaps try cutting one by 50mg (ie 300mg scoop plus 250mg capsule). Maybe that's the way to go.

I did get mildy addicted to phenibut a few years ago, and did a fairly rapid taper, and didn't really think it was that bad, but I was probably in a better place mentally then.

Have also done opiate withdrawals a good few times, so was probably trying to apply my experience of that but this is clearly a different beast.

Thanks again for your support Rise Again, there's not been much response to my thread so I don't know what I would have done without you - I start to feel paranoid when I logon and there's been no responses or support, but is probably the state of mind I'm in!
 
Sounds like a good plan. I've always found benzos to be one of the worst drugs to withdraw from, way worse than opiates and I'd imagine phenibut would be just as bad or maybe even worse.

Your welcome :), you wouldn't't know it but you've probably been helping me more than I'be been helping you. You just made me smile for the first time this week.
 
Glad I could make you smile.

Haven't been smiling much myself, I had to use more than I intended last night, after sleeping well the night before that. I got to bed, having dosed my 600mg, and felt relaxed, but as soon as I started to feel myself drifting off to sleep I started having recurring hypnic jerks, over and over again, which started making me think something was very wrong which led to a panic attack and almost calling emergency services.

So back to being sleep deprived and my dosages are a bit messed up now, am wondering if I am dosing too little, or leaving too long a gap between doses, I really have no idea.

Today I walked about 5 miles in blazing heat and didn't have any problems, I drew the line at trying to run though. I did do some meditation and managed to get quite relaxed and almost dozed off, so now I will have to try for real... I guess if I can't sleep I can always get up and meditate, maybe it will help.

Something has to soon, this is turning into a horror story :(
 
Not sure what I am doing wrong in this thread, guess some threads just die along with the person who asked for some help.

Guess I'll try to do this on my own without any internet help. Completely alone.

Thanks Rise Again for your advice, one voice in a sea of cyberspace, it certainly meant a lot to have that voice on the horizon or I'd have felt completely lost and I hope you are doing OK.
 
Are you feeling any better? Relax, you're getting paranoid about people not replying. Maybe they're dealing with their own problems, maybe they don't know what to say, maybe they feel there's nothing else to be said so they'rd just letting you vent, who knows.

Maybe some of us feel you just need to suffer through it, and there's nothing anyone can do for you. Maybe there isn't many people around who have experience with phenibut withdrawals and they don't want to say something to make it worse.

I've gone through everything you're describing when withdrawing from benzodiazepines. There's no way around it, you just have to suffer through the withdrawals but you'rd refusing to and trying to find another way out. If you'rd stressing about having a seizure or becoming psychotic and you can't cope you need to go and ask a doctor for help. Otherwise you could monitor your heart rate and blood pressure and make sure they don't get dangerously high if that would help you. Bottom line is you are going to feel like your dying, you are going to be bedriddin in a state of panic that you never knew was possible and it is going to continue relentlessly for days or maybe even longer without a break, you won't even stop to sleep. No amount of talking is going to find you away around it. You just have to suffer for a while, you don't have any other options . I don't know what else to tell you. Good luck.
 
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