Maintaining Steroid Gains

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zedubz

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Maintaining Steroid Gains?

I've done a little research before starting my first cycle, and I always heard you could "keep" or "Maintain". Recently I have seen otherwise. So even if you kept training and a good diet is it true that you will not keep any gains after around 12 weeks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aRx5DhlI88

A few people that I can think of that I've heard are off and kept the gains would be
- https://instagram.com/jonskywalker
- https://instagram.com/jeff_seid


example:
guy takes steroids, ends cycle, takes pct, keeps 80% of his gains, but decides that steroids arent for him, so he continues to lift, and diet, but quits using drugs, now a year down the road the gains he made from that 1 cycle, will he still have that mass or will it disappear?
 
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Welcome to BL zedubz

To some extent there's an element of truth in that. So you will lose some of your gains if you never take AAS ever again.

However unless you are far above your 'genetic limit' (the maximum amount of LBM your body will comfortably hold unassisted while training) it will certainly last far longer than 12 weeks. Retention has a lot to do with how well you train and your diet.

So the two instagram examples you posted, the guys are actually quite small from a bodybuilding perspective, so I would have no reason to doubt they could maintain that amount of LBM even at fairly low bodyfat percentages.
 
Thanks CFC, this is a very informative forum.

I've always been a runner, back and forth between sprinting and long distance. I've been lifting with minimal running (around a mile for a warm-up) before hitting the gym. I'm pretty sure I'm far off from my genetic maximum as I'm probably 5'9-5'10, I weigh 145 and last I checked I was at 6% body fat. I'm thinking about starting my cycle in a few months from now as I critique my routine to get the most out of it. I also should add in that "Jon" skywalker is around 6'4 "apparently" which is his words via web. But I would say my goals as of now would be in their ball park. Thanks for the quick reply, it gave me a far better perspective.
 
6% bodyfat is exceptionally low, are you sure it's accurate? If so, well done. However you'll get lots of people telling you that you could hit a much higher weight before starting AAS, as 145lb at your height is quite small to be honest. Give us a better idea of how long it's taken you to get where you are. How long have you been lifting? How much weight have you gained in that time? What's your diet like (esp calorie intake)?
 
Well I used a bodyfat tester like so - https://www.google.com/shopping/product/17668279568812537042, is there any other way to double check how accurate it is? The bodyfat was only accurate before I start lifting a few months back but those were the only tools we had in track & field.

My intake use to be pretty low as I would always have work and classes, so I'd skip breakfast or just literally forget to eat... I've gained around a steady 10lbs since I've been working out and eating more / supplements. It's not much but it's feel like a lot as I was at that beginning weight for the last 2-3 years no matter what I ate. The supplements and the mass gainer have helped a lot. If I can find an old photo or something, I'll show you the progress for your input. Otherwise it's hard to explain how farm I've come, It's hard for me to compare running for years to lifting, but I'm just a beginner in lifting.

P.s. My intake is around 2500
 
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That's not going to give you a meaningful estimate of your bodyfat I'm afraid. You'd get a more accurate reading with some calipers.

Ok what we need to see from you is a proper diet plan my friend. You know, 4-6 meals, with protein/carb/fat macros broken down, and high protein intake. Generally speaking for a bodybuilder your calorie intake is much too low to gain much mass with.

Diet is the most important thing in this equation, so if you rectify that and figure out how to eat more quality food with good macros, you can expect to gain at least another 25-35lbs before you need to consider using gear.

That probably doesn't sound as exciting as just taking steroids, but in all honesty if you don't figure out how to eat first and foremost, you won't really make any progress with the AAS either, and you will lose what you gain afterwards.
 
This might seem stupid, but to add also just continuing to workout after you get off cycle is pretty key...might seem obvious but plenty of people dont work out when they arnt on gear
 
CFC said:
That's not going to give you a meaningful estimate of your bodyfat I'm afraid. You'd get a more accurate reading with some calipers.

Ok what we need to see from you is a proper diet plan my friend. You know, 4-6 meals, with protein/carb/fat macros broken down, and high protein intake. Generally speaking for a bodybuilder your calorie intake is much too low to gain much mass with.

Diet is the most important thing in this equation, so if you rectify that and figure out how to eat more quality food with good macros, you can expect to gain at least another 25-35lbs before you need to consider using gear.

That probably doesn't sound as exciting as just taking steroids, but in all honesty if you don't figure out how to eat first and foremost, you won't really make any progress with the AAS either, and you will lose what you gain afterwards.
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I will look in to getting a caliper for a more accurate reading, thanks for the link.

If that's what it takes then it's all the more worth it. Do you recommend mass gainers, or strictly protein. Like say Optimum Serious Mass Gainer is around 1250 calories, 250g of carbs, and 50g of protein. I've had a few people tell me to steer clear of it and just use casein/whey to supplement my diet. I take BCAA's, Aminos, and Multi vitamins daily. I also use BSN AMINOx for recovery.

I always felt like my routine was my problem and I recently went from a 5 day split to a 4 day split. I really appreciate the tips.
 
NeighborMike said:
This might seem stupid, but to add also just continuing to workout after you get off cycle is pretty key...might seem obvious but plenty of people dont work out when they arnt on gear
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I would workout on/off gear. I didn't know many people chose not to workout when they didn't have gear.
 
zedubz said:
I would workout on/off gear. I didn't know many people chose not to workout when they didn't have gear.
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its much higher then you would think....obviously working out clean is less gratifying for various reasons, thats takes a good bit of people completely out of the gym
 
zedubz said:
I will look in to getting a caliper for a more accurate reading, thanks for the link.

If that's what it takes then it's all the more worth it. Do you recommend mass gainers, or strictly protein. Like say Optimum Serious Mass Gainer is around 1250 calories, 250g of carbs, and 50g of protein. I've had a few people tell me to steer clear of it and just use casein/whey to supplement my diet. I take BCAA's, Aminos, and Multi vitamins daily. I also use BSN AMINOx for recovery.

I always felt like my routine was my problem and I recently went from a 5 day split to a 4 day split. I really appreciate the tips.
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I'm not against using shakes as part of a diet but the best thing - certainly when you're still getting your diet knowledge sorted - is to rely on solid food and eat more and larger regular meals.

There are plenty of bulking diets (or 'lean' bulking diets) out there that you can google and get ideas from.

But as a rough idea, aim for 5-6 meals per day. Try to make at least 4 of those solid. Aim for 200-250g (8-10oz) portions of lean meat or fish, with a good sized portion of vegetables or salad, and about 100g/4oz (dry weight) of carbs (eg oats, rice etc) per meal. Add good fats to the diet via nuts/seeds, fish oils, oily fish, olive oil, coconut oil etc.

If you're used to 2500 calories, aim to raise that to at least 3000 for now, and keep an eye on how the scale moves vs bodyfat increases. You're aiming to see about a 0.5-1lb gain in weight per week (measured over a 4 week period), with only a small increase in bodyfat. If weight isn't increasing, keep adding calories to the diet (but not just by eating junk) until it starts to shift in the right direction. It really is that straightforward.

If bodyfat does start creeping up unacceptably, add in extra cardio (esp HIIT) rather than cutting back on the calories.

If you do take in some shakes, try to avoid the nasty commercial weight gainers. Instead, buy a decent pure unflavoured whey protein and add to it natural ingredients like oats (for carbs), yoghurt, fruit juice, fish oils, psyllium husk (fibre) and so on. There's plenty of tasty shake recipes out there to be found (and some threads on here about meal replacement shakes as well).
 
zedubz said:
I've done a little research before starting my first cycle, and I always heard you could "keep" or "Maintain". Recently I have seen otherwise. So even if you kept training and a good diet is it true that you will not keep any gains after around 12 weeks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aRx5DhlI88

A few people that I can think of that I've heard are off and kept the gains would be
- https://instagram.com/jonskywalker
- https://instagram.com/jeff_seid


example:
guy takes steroids, ends cycle, takes pct, keeps 80% of his gains, but decides that steroids arent for him, so he continues to lift, and diet, but quits using drugs, now a year down the road the gains he made from that 1 cycle, will he still have that mass or will it disappear?
Click to expand...

Just to give you a realistic perspective. The individuals you happened to mention with their instagrams, those body's are a 100% achievable naturally. You can gain quite a substantial amount of mass naturally with proper dieting and understanding of how the body responds to weightlifting. It is a science and adding in steroids only complicates the equation.
 
I always got a good laugh at broscience. Taking a quick look here, it seems you guys have a head on your shoulders. Does it ever kill me the shit said on some other forums haha.

One can actually reach his genetic limit after fully maturing quite easily using AAS. The bros will tell you it's a bad idea and you should hit your genetic limit first then use AAS. It's like bro morality haha. It comes with risks though. And like GrymReefer said it can complicate things. There is a shit ton a guy should know before even considering it. But I believe if a guy is healthy, has his diet in check, has PCT planned and AI on hand, good gear source, safety knowledge, proper injection technique etc, no reason not to if it means that much to him.

I know a thing or two about steroids. If you want to maintain your gains, there are some things to keep in mind. Always use a Test base. I cringe at dbol only cycles and the like. Make sure you PCT properly (there is loads of conflicting views online for you to bash your head over). Simply put, make sure you have a PCT planned. Depending on how suppressive your dosages are. Depending on what you were taking, you will lose some weight and there is a good chance it is water. Make sure to continue eating in caloric surpluss and training hard, macros/diet in check. I would recommend incorporating a peptide such as LGD-4033 into your cycle.

As another said before, if you are not beyond your genetic limit, the gains should for the most part be manageable to keep.
 
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How well you'll keep your gains largely depends on your genetics and what steroids you use. If you're using dbol and anadrol and retain a lot of water on cycle. This fullness in your muscles will go and make you look smaller - and you've got no chance of retaining this post cycle as this isn't lean muscle tissue.
 
Personally to me the best way to keep your gains is to do low dose gear for much longer then people suggested

Anyone ive had does that liked the results. Its when you put on a lot of size quickly in a short period of time you see the dramatic drop in progress
 
Losing gains is overrated.

The main reason people think they lose all their gains after cycle is because people overestimate their gains massively. When people say they gained 30lb's on cycle they neglect to realise that 25lb's of that is water and glycogen retention in the muscles. So yeh when you come off gear and you aren't pumped 100% of the time you will lose that 25lb's but losing the actual muscle you gained? Not really.

You can lose actual muscle if your testosterone levels don't recover quickly enough because low testosterone is a poor environment for maintaining muscle but that's about the only reason.

I wouldn't recommend anyone cycles though. Either blast and cruise or don't take steroids in my opinion.
 
JUICEONE said:
Losing gains is overrated.

The main reason people think they lose all their gains after cycle is because people overestimate their gains massively. When people say they gained 30lb's on cycle they neglect to realise that 25lb's of that is water and glycogen retention in the muscles. So yeh when you come off gear and you aren't pumped 100% of the time you will lose that 25lb's but losing the actual muscle you gained? Not really.

You can lose actual muscle if your testosterone levels don't recover quickly enough because low testosterone is a poor environment for maintaining muscle but that's about the only reason.

I wouldn't recommend anyone cycles though. Either blast and cruise or don't take steroids in my opinion.
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Its another good argument for a low dose cycle such as Test Enanthtate @ 250mg per week

You can put on a good 10 - 15 lbs and actually keep it while minimizing the side effects.

It must be depressing to take a high does cycle with Dianabol added and gain 30 lbs only to lose 20 of them after PCT.
 
zedubz said:
I've done a little research before starting my first cycle, and I always heard you could "keep" or "Maintain". Recently I have seen otherwise. So even if you kept training and a good diet is it true that you will not keep any gains after around 12 weeks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aRx5DhlI88

A few people that I can think of that I've heard are off and kept the gains would be
- https://instagram.com/jonskywalker
- https://instagram.com/jeff_seid


example:
guy takes steroids, ends cycle, takes pct, keeps 80% of his gains, but decides that steroids arent for him, so he continues to lift, and diet, but quits using drugs, now a year down the road the gains he made from that 1 cycle, will he still have that mass or will it disappear?
Click to expand...


Well, I think you need to define "gains."

If you are defining "gains" as increases in muscle mass -- you are partially correct. There is ALWAYS extra water retention when taking steroids. Some muscle mass is lost after the cycle due to the water balance of the body reverting to 'normal'. However, one can add muscle mass to the body and become more massive than when on-cycle -- simply by increasing the caloric intake, maintaining 2 grams protein per POUND of weight, and maximizing training to promote mass gains.

If you are defining 'gains' as strength increases, well -- you are pretty much WRONG! Strength gains from a cycle are easily maintained.
 
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