Bupe is bupe/sub actual sobriety or just a substitute!?

[Jabberwocky]

you got lucky he is certified; not many are.

IV vials!? what!? would be no need unless you have a hard time taking your bupe now. I assume you do what we all do and just like it dissolve under the tongue, right?

what do the others who see your Dr get? anyone on any high MG opiate pills? any good combo benzo/opiates? lol

 

[Jabberwocky]

Effective treatment for addiction, especially opiate-related addiction, relies on more than just prescription drugs. Counseling is a major factor as well as maintaining/developing a physical exercise regimen. You have to keep busy because part of the problem addicts face is digging themselves out of years of cultivated idle time: essentially, many addicts have formed a drug habit plus a habit of not spending time doing anything but drugs. So there are 2 voids to fill. The first may be adequately filled with prescription treatment (for awhile), but the other requires putting in place positive habits including attending counseling sessions or meetings and regular recreational activity that involves physical exercise. For more information, please visit http://MedicationCounseling.com

lol, did you really just join to promote your biz? kinda funny if you ask me but hey maybe you can help a few people out!

are you Dez Blanchfield? not sure but I got a random request to join twitter by this dude at the same time you posted.

 

[Mad Dash]

you got lucky he is certified; not many are.

IV vials!? what!? would be no need unless you have a hard time taking your bupe now. I assume you do what we all do and just like it dissolve under the tongue, right?

what do the others who see your Dr get? anyone on any high MG opiate pills? any good combo benzo/opiates? lol

I always take sublingually except for on the weekends when I have nothing to do. Idle hands are the tool of the devil, I insuffilate my dose because it is roughly twice as efficient and I actually get a good buzz. Without that I may do bad things. And I don't have a desire for the vials because I don't IV anymore BUT it is cool to know that my doctor trusts me so much I could get them if I had the money.

And most of the patients that I hear chatting are all on suboxone or zubsolv and I can HEAR them yelling at the doctor a couple rooms over. The other ones the ones who are in severe near death pain all the time I have no idea but I would assume some heavy shit. I get my benzo RX from the VA. It is supposed to be short term which made me a little upset, then when I asked how long he had in mind he said maybe a year or two. I was like... huh? So I get 60 5 mg diazepam from the VA every month. And 12 1 mg ativan for breakthrough panic attacks.

Granted this all sounds great and all. But to be honest I would rather not need it. I remember a day when I was young where I would have killed to have this kind of RX. But actually needing it from the shit that happened to me in the military is just not worth it. The military cost me everything I hold dear. My physical health, my mental health, my wife, my family, and my ability to work. I have PTSD so bad I can not go to the fucking mall without having a straight up panic attack. I can not hold a job because of my mental conditions. I have a college degree and started working as a box un-loader at UPS. But only worked there for two weeks b/c I had paranoid delusions everyone was out to get me, or judging me, or thought I was a lesser person than them. Of course none of this is true, but I had two nervous break downs at work. They said they would try to work with me on it because my boss and his boss were prior service but I just could not do it. I am so lonely, BBT, I don't even know you. And We are not even 'friends' on this site technically. But you are the closest friend I have right now. I am not kidding. My wife even took my dog in the divorce. I take my meds properly except for maybe 2 days a week, I workout 1 hour every day. I am 6 foot 2 and 197.8 lbs with 10% body fat. I do therapy 3 times a week physch once a month go to AA every day. And I still hate life and pretty much everything around me. I don't know if I will ever get better, or ever love again. My wife left me when I was at the lowest of the low when I needed her badly when I was 9 months clean. Before I had been diagnosed with anything because she thought I was fine. I want to die everyday, yet I am not suicidal. Sorry I am off topic. I just am having such a shit day.

 

[Mad Dash]

I hear a lot of despair in your post, and it wouldn't hurt to get to the bottom of that. Basically, find out why you are so bummed out. I have seen many addicts blame their problems on their addiction, but without the drugs-the problems are still there, and the challenge becomes learning how to deal with the problems without the facility of getting high. Can you distinguish between the fear of getting off substances and the fear of facing your problems sober? Find a good psychologist who specializes in addiction treatment and emphasizes cognitive-behavioral therapy. You have to find time for your health or else this neglect of treatment will eventually cause you to lose the functionality you currently have. For more information, please visit http://MedicationCounseling.com

I have all of that I am a veteran and I go to one of the best VA facilities in the country, it is not the addiction that is running my life. My addiction is a symptom of my PTSD, some of the best and brightest minds at the VA have told me this. I saw things and went through things no human should have to endure, and when I finally got out of the military and started to work on myself and was at the lowest point of my life, my wife left me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I hear a lot of despair in your post, and it wouldn't hurt to get to the bottom of that. Basically, find out why you are so bummed out. I have seen many addicts blame their problems on their addiction, but without the drugs-the problems are still there, and the challenge becomes learning how to deal with the problems without the facility of getting high. Can you distinguish between the fear of getting off substances and the fear of facing your problems sober? Find a good psychologist who specializes in addiction treatment and emphasizes cognitive-behavioral therapy. You have to find time for your health or else this neglect of treatment will eventually cause you to lose the functionality you currently have. For more information, please visit http://MedicationCounseling.com

I think you are a little late on this one; sure, I have been through many struggles and have felt the pain, but I am FINALLY getting over that hump and able to live what most consider a "normal" life. yes, I still take suboxone and will continue to take suboxone w/o an end date because this drug saved my life in many ways; I do not consider it a "drug" based on the life I live while using suboxone.

I majored in Psychology and cognitive-behavioral therapy is something I mastered and do quite well with, so there is really no need. also, I do see a counselor which is how and why I am scripted the bupe; therapy is a must for anyone who is currently taking suboxone.

 

[speedballs_over]

Mad Dash - One thought to help you out, if your living situation allows maybe think about getting a low maintenance but active dog. A well cared for shelter dog might do fine. In some states apartments must allow pets for those that use them as therapy, landlords may be more lenient if you explain a little about your service to our country and your need to have a dog. If you have a therapist or a VA doctor they may be able to write a 'script for a dog, that in essence makes it a therapy dog, not a service dog - that's reserved for those disabled that need a dog to survive like epileptics, paraplegics, the blind or deaf, and others who need help with tasks the dog performs.

Dogs are good for people. I really benefited from mine during my dope addiction recovery.

If you can't have a dog, look into programs that allow you to speed time with dogs trained to help people with PTSD, depending upon where you live you might be surprised the programs that exist to help you using canine therapy.

I feel for you, I empathize. I had a wife who left me mid-addiction and took my dog. It hurt as bad as her leaving, really. I was so alone. I didn't get another dog for years b/c I knew during my dope use I couldn't properly care for one, but that's not your situation. I hope this is something you can do for yourself. A dog park, or just a regular park is a safe place (I hope), outdoors that you can visit alone or with a dog - I'd be surprised if it didn't grant you a little reprieve from your situation.

 

[marley g]

 

[VMC75088over]

I have some close contacts in the recovery community, I have been pretty active in AA for many years. I was the house manager at a sober house connected to a detox many years ago and they will take me in a heart beat even though they are not taking new patents for Bupe right now. I have already talked with them. I'm pretty honest with myself and know I could take less Oxy and get by but it's a mental obsession and I always think that next pill will get me better and it's pretty much habit to take them at certain times of the day, I have a routine. How has being on Bupe effected the obsession and what about the depression that always comes with not having your other drugs ? I think the mental component of this stuff is my biggest challenge.

Why do I get logged out so fast ? Sometimes I take so long writing or get distracted with another task and come back and I'm logged out. Can I change a setting ? I don't want to stay logged in automatically but would like to extend the activity time out if possible.

 

[Mad Dash]

I have some close contacts in the recovery community, I have been pretty active in AA for many years. I was the house manager at a sober house connected to a detox many years ago and they will take me in a heart beat even though they are not taking new patents for Bupe right now. I have already talked with them. I'm pretty honest with myself and know I could take less Oxy and get by but it's a mental obsession and I always think that next pill will get me better and it's pretty much habit to take them at certain times of the day, I have a routine. How has being on Bupe effected the obsession and what about the depression that always comes with not having your other drugs ? I think the mental component of this stuff is my biggest challenge.

Why do I get logged out so fast ? Sometimes I take so long writing or get distracted with another task and come back and I'm logged out. Can I change a setting ? I don't want to stay logged in automatically but would like to extend the activity time out if possible.

For me that is the miracle about this medication, the biggest thing it does it kill the psychological part I immediately stopped caring about dosing schedules but if you really want to you can spread out your daily dose to 3 times a day. But with time you will learn best to take whole dose in the AM and just feel good and sane all day long. NO CRAVINGS. Also, there have been studies showing that bupe work as a mild anti-depressant so by its very nature it will keep you from feeling depressed about not being on OXY. I mean this does not happen for every single person, but for people that have really hit bottom and are drowning and can't see the hope, this is like the life raft that suddenly make you feel completely normal with the very slightest opiate type feeling in the background. All day roughly too.

 

[VMC75088over]

Mad, Thanks You have been a good friend to a guy you don't even know yet. I feel like I have some hope.

 

[Jabberwocky]

you think you get a slight opiate feeling? I dont know about that one, but sure does kill ALL CRAVINGS! that is why Methadone NEVER worked for me; I would get my morning dose and by noon I'd be shooting dope. nowadays I take my 12MG/bupe in the AM and just feel good all day w/o any cravings or urge to use! the day actually passes by and I am not wasting money, wasting time and wasting my life! and yes, I do feel its somewhat of an anti-depressant in many ways. I just feel better when on bupe than when not on bupe; then again, I have not been totally clean in many, many years.

kinda sad, but I honestly have no idea what it feels like to be "clean". even when in detox I would get away from the opiates but go w/ the benzos to help me detox and just sleep my days away while detoxing.

clean time? what is that?

 

[Mad Dash]

Mad, Thanks You have been a good friend to a guy you don't even know yet. I feel like I have some hope.

No problems brother, BostonBrownTown is another good guy here I have zero friends IRL now because of my PTSD, agoraphobia, anxiety, and recent divorce. And I would say I am closer to the both of you guys than I am with anyone else right now. I know... sad right? But my life has been hell since getting out of the Army. Ruined my life.

you think you get a slight opiate feeling? I dont know about that one, but sure does kill ALL CRAVINGS! that is why Methadone NEVER worked for me; I would get my morning dose and by noon I'd be shooting dope. nowadays I take my 12MG/bupe in the AM and just feel good all day w/o any cravings or urge to use! the day actually passes by and I am not wasting money, wasting time and wasting my life! and yes, I do feel its somewhat of an anti-depressant in many ways. I just feel better when on bupe than when not on bupe; then again, I have not been totally clean in many, many years.

kinda sad, but I honestly have no idea what it feels like to be "clean". even when in detox I would get away from the opiates but go w/ the benzos to help me detox and just sleep my days away while detoxing.

clean time? what is that?

lol, I feel ya. But ya I do get some sort of effect, it is VERY slight and nothing to write home about. But I never got the feeling until I switched from suboxone to subutex. People can say what they want all day long about the naloxone not having any effects, but in my experience it does something a lot of studies suggest naloxone just makes medications less pleasant or enjoyable including benzos, alcohol, and other downers. And the studies I read this was not because of it's opiate blocking effect but some other method of action. AND naloxone can be very lightly active in the stomach if swallowed. People that get headaches and severe stomach aches are usually people that actually absord more naloxone into their system than most. I was one of those people. The subutex switch just gives me the tiniest opiate type feeling all day long. It is kind of like living with the lowest dose imaginable but still active and somewhat enjoyable opiate type high for as long as I take it. And this ONLY happens with the hi-tech brand pills I am on. Whereas no dose of soboxone or zubsolv EVER gave me any kind of feeling.

BTW clean time is what you make of it. I am 1 year clean next month on the 24th! WooHoo.

 

[VMC75088over]

No problems brother, BostonBrownTown is another good guy here I have zero friends IRL now because of my PTSD, agoraphobia, anxiety, and recent divorce. And I would say I am closer to the both of you guys than I am with anyone else right now. I know... sad right? But my life has been hell since getting out of the Army. Ruined my life.



lol, I feel ya. But ya I do get some sort of effect, it is VERY slight and nothing to write home about. But I never got the feeling until I switched from suboxone to subutex. People can say what they want all day long about the naloxone not having any effects, but in my experience it does something a lot of studies suggest naloxone just makes medications less pleasant or enjoyable including benzos, alcohol, and other downers. And the studies I read this was not because of it's opiate blocking effect but some other method of action. AND naloxone can be very lightly active in the stomach if swallowed. People that get headaches and severe stomach aches are usually people that actually absord more naloxone into their system than most. I was one of those people. The subutex switch just gives me the tiniest opiate type feeling all day long. It is kind of like living with the lowest dose imaginable but still active and somewhat enjoyable opiate type high for as long as I take it. And this ONLY happens with the hi-tech brand pills I am on. Whereas no dose of soboxone or zubsolv EVER gave me any kind of feeling.

BTW clean time is what you make of it. I am 1 year clean next month on the 24th! WooHoo.

Yes, I forgot to include Boston Thanks man ! and he's in my back yard. You gave a lot to your country and I respect that, I don't just say that I feel for guys and girls coming home after that mess. Hang in we have your back.

Ron

 

[InfectedWithDrugs]

Why is there such negativity towards buprenorphine's analgesic effects? It very much works on moderate and every severe pain, at least Butran patches do @ 20mcg/hr, but Butran patches are much weaker than Subutex/Suboxone...

 

[Angrywoman]

Thank you for serving Mad..My dad was 22 yrs in the military. This post hit home for me. I live in Fl and I stay home with my son who is 7 today and has autism. I have a few of your same issues with people and how I think they feel. If ya need a friend to chat with I'm here. I have had a few back and neck surgeries and have some panic and social anxiety issues since getting hurt and harassed on my job. This post really hit me hard. All I can say is this too shall pass eventually to keep myself from freaking out...

 

[Treefa]

Well BBT the fact of the matter is, suboxone IS still an opioid, so if your idea of sobriety is no drugs or alcohol, then your not sober.

This country is just completely fucked up right now, IMHO opiate addicts should be given MS CONTIN, it's at least 10X safer than bupe, generally speaking, and it doesn't do things that we don't know about in the body, because it's been around for SO FUCKING LONG that reactions, side effects, etc from LONG-TERM USE are Much more easily predictable and controllable with MORPHINE than with BUPERENORPHINE.

Bupe IS a POWERFULLY POTENT NARCOTIC ANALGESIC, it's not the golden egg laid by the goose, it's no miracle.

The only real miracle about bupe is how the corrupt tyrannical government, and swamped doctors allow, endorse, and approve the use of a more dangerous narcotic, OVER PURE MORPHINE, which has demonstrated it's safety and effecicacy for millennia for treating NOT ONLY PAIN, AND RELETED PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS, but also MORPHINE IS THE CURE FOR ADDICTION, fact!

America, the world even, is at a stage right now, where these politically correct BIGOTS are attempting to fix things that ARE NOT BROKE!!

Tell me this, WHY THE HELL is it ok for a TRANSGENDER person to have an operation to change sex (like approving them to DEFY REALITY!!) but us poor junkies are cast by the wayside, we can't even be maintained by doctors with a FULL MU AGONIST, unless we're either severely injured, or just lucky liars??
Anybody see what I mean??
The double standards in this country are just disgusting.
TRANSGENDER=ignore reality by changing sex, instead of actually EMBRACING what you were born with. Suicide rates INCREASE, AFTER SURGERY!! OHH SHOCKER!!
OPIATE ADDICTS= enhance their QUALITY OF LIFE, with age old, SAFE MEDEICATIONS, some of the safest around, actually! And are spurned and started on a regimen of poisions (suboxone, methadone) so that they can have their cake, but they can't eat it?? ADDICTS are MORE PRODUCTIVE ON THEIR DOC, what the fuck to transsexuals contribute?? They're probably just prostitutes, that specialize in making people feel akward!!
WHen i'm on opiates I make people feel open, I encourage them, and share my love with them....when I don't have opiates I don't even love myself.....so much for the pursuit of happiness...I guess I may chase it....but IDk if i'll ever catch it (250mg MSIR/day would be a fantastic start to a happy life, FREE of abuse/addiction for me)

Thank you liberals, for being Soooo politacallly correct!
The paradox is how WRONG political correctness is, and double standards, all that horse shit.


The moral of the story/rant is this; DON't EVER ADMIT TO BEING A OPIATE ADDICT/ABUSER, even if you use it for pain, or you're going to have no better option that subs/meth, and TBH that shit ain't for me, so when/if they find out about me being a productive opiate addict, oh son i'm goin down, just like Freddie king....NOT like tranny's hehe..

 

[Treefa]

^^ exactly, man.

I am also scripted, as mentioned before, other pills because of a tumor I have which causes seizures, so does that mean I am on "drugs"?

pills are scripted to solve the problems you have with your health; suboxone is scripted to me because I had a fucking MAJOR health problem and that problem was slowly fucking KILLING ME, so sober or not, I am not longer DYING!

No offense here bro, you seem your doing good on subs, but shit man, IF I HAD A TUMOR, I wouldn't settle for anything less than an ADAQUATLEY dosed regimen of Morphine and hydrocodone.

Contrary to what 'they" say, addiction isn't a major health problem, but a tumor sure as shit is!! Addiction is little more than a routine, GIVEN THAT YOU AVOID NEEDLES & OTHER JUNKIES, I don't understand how taking morphine tablets for pain is any worse than taking subs for addiction??
Can anybody fill me in on what i'm missing??

BTW BBT how did you get a tumor? Were you born with it or something? Where is it, if you don't mind me asking??

 

[Lady Codone]

Technically it's a substitute, but your quality of life is what counts. Are you able to work, have relationships and take care of yourself while on maintenance therapy? (At least better than you did on other opiates?)

For some people total sobriety does not work. They go right back into using street drugs, which is a pointless and dangerous exercise. Suboxone and methadone can keep these people off more dangerous drugs so they can live a somewhat normal life. It ain't perfect, but it's the best we've got. If you're not happy on the meds and think you're ready for sobriety, go for it. Only you know if/when you're ready for that.

I would be more than content to take maintenance meds for the rest of my life as long as I had steady access to them. I'm used to taking low doses of non-euphoric opiates daily anyway and prefer it to total sobriety.

 

[belfort]

well ive been on sub/methadone maintenance and then gotten clean from both of them...when i was on them i considered myself "clean" but it wasnt until i tried to get off them that i realized i wasnt clean at all..when i was on sub or methadone, i was still living in that content opiated little bubble..dont fool yourselves guys, u may not be sticking a needle in your arms getting a pronounced high anymore but you are stilll under the influence of a very strong opiod..your emotions are still blunted on sub or methadone so you arent clean by any means..

 

[belfort]

Why is there such negativity towards buprenorphine's analgesic effects? It very much works on moderate and every severe pain, at least Butran patches do @ 20mcg/hr, but Butran patches are much weaker than Subutex/Suboxone...

its not only the analgesia, but bupe, sub and methadone all are very efficient emotion dampeners even if you are on lower doses..you live in a bubble while on them and then when u get off, you realize within a few weeks what it is TRULY like to live sober..u will be experiencing true, live emotions once u get off all of the opiod maintenance medications..i know this first hand..