Are long-term MDMA side effects irreversible?

[joshii123]

Agree I was hasty deluded is not fair, but it is a pretty deluded thought to think mdma is safer than booze, this is a harm reduction fourm and I'm sharing safe facts.

Obv both can be dangerous used improperly but mdma is much less forgiving fo sure

 

[BlueBull]

I agree with you, hence why I said drugs can be both safe and unsafe. I justy hate when people do a drug vs. drug compariosn e.g. Marijuana v MDMA, Alcohol v MDMA etc. All these drugs CAN be dangerous if used improperly. I also believe the whole LTC thing can be anxiety related for some people but for me it certainly is not

I agree with the first part of your statement, though I do think certain aspects of different drugs can be compared to be able to vaguely form a safety profile, it's not because different drugs have different side-effects that one can't make a (somewhat subjective) comparison of the potential damage done.

I don't know if I agree with the second part. Reason for this is that I think you have no way of knowing that, except for when you've actually sought professional help and they diagnosed a physical cause. It is incredible the physical consequences something psychological can have. Again I am not taking sides for or against the anxiety theory, I'm just pointing out that you really shouldn't discredit it unless you have solid proof that the root cause is physical. I again point out that there are people on here that first thought they suffered from brain damage, only to come to the conclusion they had created a self-reinforcing loop of anxiety months and months later. They might do some research on this in the PTSD trials that could shed some light on this, who knows. Until someone researches it, it's only speculation and from what I've seen is that there possibly is a physical root cause, but it is not something permanent and it is possible even that it is purely psychological. Purely my opinion here, based on bluelight, experience and reading heaps of research

Agree I was hasty deluded is not fair, but it is a pretty deluded thought to think mdma is safer than booze, this is a harm reduction fourm and I'm sharing safe facts.

Obv both can be dangerous used improperly but mdma is much less forgiving fo sure

I do not agree with that and you are also not stating facts but stating an opinion. If I drink heavily once every three months, I get a nasty hangover that lasts for two days. If I take MDMA (tested & pure) in a high dose once every three months, I get a pleasant afterglow. Same for everyone I know in real life. So the recreational after-effects appear to be less severe. The real problems for both substances of course appear when abusing them. And even there it is clear to me alcohol has a much greater impact. MDMA abuse, apart from what I read on this forum, has caused no long-term effects, not in me, nor in anyone I know. I've done some pretty hardcore abuse for a pretty long time, others I know even worse, and we all came out fine. We had some fucked up side-effects for a while, but were ok after at most a month or two.

On the other hand I know people, even have one friend like that, that have been abusing alcohol for a few years now and they are seriously spiralling downhill both mentally and physically. Don't forget that this forum is the first place people with problems concerning MDMA will seek out, so naturally one will get a distorted image of how it is in reality. I'm not saying MDMA is harmless, it isn't, but I think the recreational safety margin is much greater with MDMA and I also think even when abused (more so when abused) MDMA doesn't cause the carnage alcohol does

 

[joshii123]

I think you'll find if mdma was consumed on the same scale as booze people would run into problems, mdma is not for everybody, and if you drink responsibly like me then you never get a hangover it's about using your substance right

 

[BlueBull]

I think you'll find if mdma was consumed on the same scale as booze people would run into problems, mdma is not for everybody, and if you drink responsibly like me then you never get a hangover it's about using your substance right

I agree with the second part. Both MDMA and alcohol, when used in their respective recreational dosage range and sticking to some basic rules, can be pretty benign substances. I only used heavy drinking and high dose MDMA rolls as an example because the side-effects get more apparent at those levels. I do not agree with the first part. Information comes into play here also, people are brought up subconsciously and consciously learning basic harm reduction principles concerning alcohol (or at least a relatively large part of the population in westernised countries is) while MDMA is still such a taboo only people that go out looking for the info will be able to implement fact-based harm reduction. I honestly believe that if MDMA was as accepted as alcohol, if the needed information about it was taught to people growing up and also implemented, you would see much more people suffering because of alcohol than you would because of MDMA because of the nature of the drug. I really do not think MDMA has more potential for harm than alcohol, be it physical, psychological, social or economical harm. And I believe this to be true even in most abuse cases. In any case, I am going to agree to disagree with you since the thread is getting a bit sidetracked. It is an interesting discussion though, both the original one and the alcohol vs. MDMA debate

Lastly, a short article published by the economist a while ago. And the research behind it

 

[colin681996]

I agree with the second part. Both MDMA and alcohol, when used in their respective recreational dosage range and sticking to some basic rules, can be pretty benign substances. I only used heavy drinking and high dose MDMA rolls as an example because the side-effects get more apparent at those levels. I do not agree with the first part. Information comes into play here also, people are brought up subconsciously and consciously learning basic harm reduction principles concerning alcohol (or at least a relatively large part of the population in westernised countries is) while MDMA is still such a taboo only people that go out looking for the info will be able to implement fact-based harm reduction. I honestly believe that if MDMA was as accepted as alcohol, if the needed information about it was taught to people growing up and also implemented, you would see much more people suffering because of alcohol than you would because of MDMA because of the nature of the drug. I really do not think MDMA has more potential for harm than alcohol, be it physical, psychological, social or economical harm. And I believe this to be true even in most abuse cases. In any case, I am going to agree to disagree with you since the thread is getting a bit sidetracked. It is an interesting discussion though, both the original one and the alcohol vs. MDMA debate

Lastly, a short article published by the economist a while ago. And the research behind it

I strongly disagree. I have been drinking for years, and it has never caused m any poblems apart from a hangover the next day. I have only tried MDMA on 3 ocasssions and it has me in the midst of an LTC. It's fucking horrible. Emotions are off, sex drive non existent, lack of pleasure form orgasm etc. Alcohol never gave me any of these problems. Hopefully these sympotoms aren't permanent, which I'm sure there not.... but in my personal opinion, if I had to choose which drug had to be wiped off the face of this earth, it would 110% be MDMA

 

[JWills20]

I strongly disagree. I have been drinking for years, and it has never caused m any poblems apart from a hangover the next day. I have only tried MDMA on 3 ocasssions and it has me in the midst of an LTC. It's fucking horrible. Emotions are off, sex drive non existent, lack of pleasure form orgasm etc. Alcohol never gave me any of these problems. Hopefully these sympotoms aren't permanent, which I'm sure there not.... but in my personal opinion, if I had to choose which drug had to be wiped off the face of this earth, it would 110% be MDMA

Right. But what you fail to realise is that you represent about 0.0000001% of the MDMA using community. It's extremely rare for anyone to experience extreme side-effects from such limited usage.

I mean, if we based the dangers of MDMA with my experiences then it would make the drug look harmless. I've never had a comedown even from large doses with large amounts of alcohol (actually seemed to reduce the usual alcohol hangover somehow). The only negatives I've had with MDMA is anxiety while coming up and somewhat decreasing highs. But no negatives to my sober life. Does that then mean that the negatives don't exist? No. It's just my individual experience with the drug. Just like yours is one individual experience with the drug. The point BlueBull is making is that if you look at the overall picture then alcohol is more likely to cause harm to the user than MDMA. When rated on their relative harm to the user, harm to society and risk for abuse alcohol typically rates higher according to some recent research. In fact alcohol rates far higher than MDMA, weed, mushrooms, LSD, ketamine, amphetamines. It's only beaten by methamphetamine (or some people think it's on par with methamphetamine), heroin and coke.

 

[colin681996]

Right. But what you fail to realise is that you represent about 0.0000001% of the MDMA using community. It's extremely rare for anyone to experience extreme side-effects from such limited usage.

I mean, if we based the dangers of MDMA with my experiences then it would make the drug look harmless. I've never had a comedown even from large doses with large amounts of alcohol (actually seemed to reduce the usual alcohol hangover somehow). The only negatives I've had with MDMA is anxiety while coming up and somewhat decreasing highs. But no negatives to my sober life. Does that then mean that the negatives don't exist? No. It's just my individual experience with the drug. Just like yours is one individual experience with the drug. The point BlueBull is making is that if you look at the overall picture then alcohol is more likely to cause harm to the user than MDMA. When rated on their relative harm to the user, harm to society and risk for abuse alcohol typically rates higher according to some recent research. In fact alcohol rates far higher than MDMA, weed, mushrooms, LSD, ketamine, amphetamines. It's only beaten by methamphetamine (or some people think it's on par with methamphetamine), heroin and coke.

Well, just like in your personal experience where MDMAA hasn't caused you any harm, alcohol is a drug that has caused me the least harm. As I said I wake up with a hangover the next mornnig and thats it

 

[joshii123]

Mdma plays with your feel good chemicals in your brain, how can messing with that be safer than getting drunk, hahaha you guys make me laugh

 

[joshii123]

Right. But what you fail to realise is that you represent about 0.0000001% of the MDMA using community.

But what you fail to realise you mdma users make up only a tiny percentage of all drug users, alcohol included

 

[Klaasvaak]

Maybe in your country, dont know where you live. Here in holland its almost safe to say that 30% of the students is using. But just like once every 3 months. So the group is big enough to say that the majority of people who use responsible dont get problems with using it.

 

[joshii123]

Maybe in your country, dont know where you live. Here in holland its almost safe to say that 30% of the students is using. But just like once every 3 months. So the group is big enough to say that the majority of people who use responsible dont get problems with using it.

We know this, these users are most likely long time users tho, most people are against the idea of taking mdma so we don't know if the non users will react bad with it.

Also everybody's body accepts booze it's more universal so if we are talking responsible use worldwide yes alcohol is safer.

 

[Fractality]

Mdma plays with your feel good chemicals in your brain, how can messing with that be safer than getting drunk, hahaha you guys make me laugh

And getting drunk doesn't "play with your feel good chemicals" in your brain? Personally, I feel a lot worse from heavy drinking than from a heavy roll. The alcohol hangover lingers for several days whereas MDMA provides more of an afterglow than hangover. I've never had an alcohol type hangover from MDMA.

 

[terarc]

I don't think it's productive to compare substances like MDMA vs Alcohol... For example.. Doing only one every 3 months, MDMA will maybe come out on top of perceived negatives (if you get smashed on the alcohol and get hungover, though TBH, a few years down the line of that pattern and I'd argue alcohol would be on top)... But if you do them every weekend or more, especially if you don't get so drunk as to have a hangover, alcohol would probably come out on top, even if you're taking small amounts of MDMA. I mean you can have a couple of beers a good few nights a week without feeling seemingly any 'damage' but I'd argue the same is certainly not true for MDMA even in tiny amounts.

All drugs can be damaging, but alcohol damage isn't equal to MDMA damage and it's the same comparing any drugs..they all work on totally different systems doing different things in the brain. You just have to look at the specific drug, how it was used, what it seems to have done, and how you can go about trying to reverse that. Comparisons just get confusing and aren't very useful

 

[Biscologist]

I used MDMA pretty recklessly from 2005 to 2009. Periods of use greatly differed but in 06 and 07 i was at the peak of my use. I followed bands around and i was around 19-20 years of age then and didnt have much direction ither than going to shows and festivals and being a pot head that worked at a pizza place and part time student. I got really good quality crystalline mdma back then as well as large amounts of quality pressies (pills) ... It wouldnt be unusal for me to crush several grams and 5 to 10 pills over the course of a weekend. Mostly i was only using it around 4 to 5 times per months but it was regular and when i did i took it in excess. I was a pure E tard. I also would mix it with Lsd, Alcohol, Ganja, Ketamine, Mushrooms and various other chemicals. Around this time i was getting both MDMA shards and crystalline powder MDA (sass) quite frequently. After 3 years of heavy partying 05-07 i literally was barely functioning in society at all. I became quite depressed, anxious, irritable and had lost all confidence in myself. My diet was terrible and i became a lost soul more than ever. I knew most of these feelings were due to mdma bc i hadnt ever felt so bad and the peak of the negativity would be active 3 to 4 days after using mdma each time. It wouldn't get much better after. Eventually my serious anxiety and depression led me to benzos/cocaine/crack which took me further down the spiral to pain meds and shortly after heroin. Of course that was an all new hell and for years i was a serious IV heroin user. I ended up in and out if recovery for years but honestly after a couple years of abstaining from mdma alone my actual depression and anxiety finally went away. I truly feel that i over did it and would eat way more than 80% of casual or even pretty hardcore bingers. I guess i was at the right (or wrong) place at the right time when it came to availability. Over the past 5 years the quAlity has gone way down and even the authenticity seems to had become a problem with the influx of synthetic cathinones. Never was a fan of those anyway. Anyhow, i do feel some long term effects still linger but for the most part im doing much better. I no longer take mdma and have Maybe taken it 6 times in the last 5 years. It was for the best. Even if i do take it, it really doesnt have anywhere close to the same effect on me and the "tuesdAy blues" triggers me to want opiates and benzos so i avoid taking it at all. I don't use those either anymore. It took years to get to that point. I havent smoked pot in a year. I do occassionally dabble in psychedelic drugs / various entheogens and may drink a beer here and there but im better off this way. Ive learned a lot about myself over the years and i hope this will help anyone else who is beginning to think maybe they need to cut back their mdma intake. It just isnt worth the long term depression and anxiety. Moderation is key with anything. Just stick to doing it a couple times a year or not at all. And we all know Lsd, Dmt, and even very minimal/occassional ket experiences are just as good if not more profound and life changing. Much love guys!

 

[Dcoqo]

These things are never irreversible. They might take a while but they're never irreversible and the very thought that they're irreversible is often an anxiety symptom in itself. Honestly, taking it once a week for 4 months at doses around 250mg really isn't that intense and I've seen and heard of a lot worse. Ill-advised of course but not the worst I've heard of. People back in the 90s took it weekly for years and have come out ok. The point I'm making is that the internet can make things seem a lot worse than they are in reality which can cause anxiety in itself. Just stay away from the drug and try to lead a healthy life. Don't sit around reading 'science' and forums searching for answers to questions which can't really be answered by anyone but yourself. Nobody can tell you when you will feel better again. Time works eventually. How much time is dependent on loads of things. Some of which are in your control whereas others are not. Things which you can control are: not taking the drug again for a while, leading a healthy lifestyle (exercise, regular and healthy sleeping pattern, engaging in social activities, facing fears etc) & accepting and understanding your thoughts for what they are - just thoughts and nothing real.

I went to uni as well and regular alcohol consumption caused me far more issues than any MDMA did. Because I regarded alcohol as so 'safe' and 'casual' I just used to smash it like every other uni student and it ruined me for a while. You really need to try to steer clear from the alcohol culture which I realise is easier said than done because I've been there done that. Especially since getting drunk will make you want to take MD and that smart and logical part of your brain saying 'don't do it' won't be there to stop you. I'd imagine this would be even stronger for you since you often drink with MDMA. Drinking will likely act as a trigger to you wanting MDMA and then your reduced inhibitions will say fuck it. Or at least that's kind of how I used to work. Maybe you can relate.

Hello, I've been having a hard time after rolling once every weekend in October, taking 4 pills and some crystal, altogether. Im really scared the effects Im feeling now might be permanent.

 

[MazDan]

Hello, I've been having a hard time after rolling once every weekend in October, taking 4 pills and some crystal, altogether. Im really scared the effects Im feeling now might be permanent.

Highly unlikely. assuming the mdma was actually mdma then most people may feel a bit blah for a few days and thats it. Everyone is different though and for a very very tiny percent it may trigger an underlying problem. MDMA can be paradoxical. You take it to feel great for a while but the price for some is they feel shit for a few days after. In a small number of people it may cause increased anxiety for a few days after but that increased anxiety can by its very nature be the reason some people think they are having long term effects. Anxiety feeds off itself. So a person feels a bit anxious after using mdma and then they get anxious because they are anxious and the loop continues.

Bottom line SEE A DOCTOR and get proffessional help if your concerned.

Biscologist........ You need to make your post easier to read. Paragraphs etc.