Are long-term MDMA side effects irreversible?

[Min2DaysRecovery]

Okay so I have been MDMA free for about four months now. Before that, I had an intense period of generally taking 250 mg each week for about four months (more or less). I drink a lot as well when I roll, usually a minimum of a wine bottle. Anyways, since then I have been feeling some bad side effects, hence to why I have not touched it for four months and I am not planning to touch it anymore (I'm done).
I have been feeling a little bit depressed on a daily basis, a lot of anxiety, racing thoughts, and mood swings. I know that for my irresponsible using this is all justifiable, I was just wondering whether it is irreversible. I am and have been on a healthy diet, and some days I feel much better some days it's all the same. Was just wondering if anyone has been through the same and how they went about it?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Why do you drink a bottle of wine with it?
Just take mdma no wonder you feel crap.

 

[epic11]

You broke rule #1. You only take mdma once everyone 3+ months. Its not something you can do every week without the horrible side effects you are mentioning now. The only thing that will heal you at this point is time (Id say years) and high quality food. (food is medicine) Poster above had a good suggestion as well. DO NOT DRINK WITH MDMA. Everyone i know that does this feels like shit later. Wait it out you have a rough road ahead, but trust that it WILL heal over time.

 

[Min2DaysRecovery]

You broke rule #1. You only take mdma once everyone 3+ months. Its not something you can do every week without the horrible side effects you are mentioning now. The only thing that will heal you at this point is time (Id say years) and high quality food. (food is medicine) Poster above had a good suggestion as well. DO NOT DRINK WITH MDMA. Everyone i know that does this feels like shit later. Wait it out you have a rough road ahead, but trust that it WILL heal over time.

I am aware of my irresponsible use. You are saying it will take years to recover? How many? And what are you basing this knowledge on?

 

[Innerpeace]

my story,...... could i be wrong? yes just going by how i felt i recovered

based on my abuse which all in all was different lower dose than yours --did mdma thirty nights in a six month peroid...did triple stacks which i beleive were quite strong, and did double stacks too. im guessing the dose on average was an average 120 mgs per pill...---took me about two years to feel quite normal again....to fully recover id say took me three, four, maybe five at most years and all in all felt okay within two years id say

 

[Min2DaysRecovery]

Wow, yeah I mean it makes sense. I'm not waiting for some miracle 1 month cure. I know it's going to be a process. And I'm not expecting any major changes before 6 months of abstaining from drugs. Did you drink during your recovery period? Because I'm at university and I've made the commitment to not touch any more drugs, but drinking will be a lot harder to abstain from.

 

[JWills20]

These things are never irreversible. They might take a while but they're never irreversible and the very thought that they're irreversible is often an anxiety symptom in itself. Honestly, taking it once a week for 4 months at doses around 250mg really isn't that intense and I've seen and heard of a lot worse. Ill-advised of course but not the worst I've heard of. People back in the 90s took it weekly for years and have come out ok. The point I'm making is that the internet can make things seem a lot worse than they are in reality which can cause anxiety in itself. Just stay away from the drug and try to lead a healthy life. Don't sit around reading 'science' and forums searching for answers to questions which can't really be answered by anyone but yourself. Nobody can tell you when you will feel better again. Time works eventually. How much time is dependent on loads of things. Some of which are in your control whereas others are not. Things which you can control are: not taking the drug again for a while, leading a healthy lifestyle (exercise, regular and healthy sleeping pattern, engaging in social activities, facing fears etc) & accepting and understanding your thoughts for what they are - just thoughts and nothing real.

I went to uni as well and regular alcohol consumption caused me far more issues than any MDMA did. Because I regarded alcohol as so 'safe' and 'casual' I just used to smash it like every other uni student and it ruined me for a while. You really need to try to steer clear from the alcohol culture which I realise is easier said than done because I've been there done that. Especially since getting drunk will make you want to take MD and that smart and logical part of your brain saying 'don't do it' won't be there to stop you. I'd imagine this would be even stronger for you since you often drink with MDMA. Drinking will likely act as a trigger to you wanting MDMA and then your reduced inhibitions will say fuck it. Or at least that's kind of how I used to work. Maybe you can relate.

 

[Min2DaysRecovery]

Thank you Moderator so much for your words, it's really what I needed and it has made me a lot more hopeful and optimistic and reduced my anxiety regarding this a bit. I am going to start a very healthy diet and do some yoga on a regular basis. I am going to try avoiding drinking as much alcohol as I did. It's just that alcohol is a lot harder to avoid. I can avoid MDMA by not hanging out with the crowd that rolls every week, but I can't completely avoid all my friends who drink. I just need to learn how to be comfortable with not drinking till I'm wasted, and limit myself, because I know alcohol plays a big role in this too.
Thanks for all your advice! Really apperciate it.

 

[joe456]

Very good advice about the importance of remembering that it is possible you have already "recovered" but the depression and anxiety have lingered. I personally have issues with depression and while I take MDMA rarely, I find the comedown has very little effect on it (often feel better because it can make me very introspective and think about things in a more positive way), so even though my serotonin will definitely be very depleted for the few days afterwards, it doesn't necessarily cause depression despite my proneness to it. Personally I find watching my thinking patterns and regular meditation extremely beneficial, so its very good to hear you are planning on starting yoga. Personally I need to average an hour or so a day to not be depressed. While I go through phases of depression anyway, and am currently recovering from one brought on by the stress of finishing my degree, not meditating regularly always catches up with me after a few weeks, no matter how well I was doing at the time. Regular meditation and making a constant effort to try not to stop myself from thinking in ways that add to my problems has stopped the racing thoughts and high anxiety that plagued me since I was a child, while the effects on depression have been more moderate, I'm still making slow but steady progress I'm not denying that your MDMA use could still be having a negative impact, but reminding yourself how recovery is an active process and not thinking you have to wait for a full brain recovery (which may or may not still be a significant factor I really don't know) will definitely help. It might be easier to change your thought patterns and behaviors with the help of CBT or MBCT (which combines principles/ practice of mindfulness with those of regular cognitive behavioral therapy), or at least with the knowledge of their basic principles. I'd also like to second the advice about drinking less, even though I was only drinking moderately beforehand (few beers throughout the week and bit tipsy, but not drunk, Friday nights), I found 6 weeks of abstinence extremely beneficial to both mental sharpness and anxiety. Took a while to get used to not drinking, but once I was used to ordering soft drinks in bars and other students asking me why the fuck I didn't drink when I still continued to take drugs (in moderation), it was surprisingly easy Best of luck.

 

[TrulyBlessed87]

Hey man , I am at 2 years and 6 months from very irresponsible use like yourself . I am not fully recovered but i feel by the 3 year mark I will be due to the amount of healing that was done in the last 2 months but i still have a while to go but the best thing is not to think about it and excersise as much as possible and eat right and wake up early and try to not concentrate on how you feel . Just do normal things and keep going with life this will help .

 

[vancbc]

You've gotten some good advice, but I also wanted to encourage you with my own experience. My own pattern of abuse was monthly high-dose experiences. I would re-dose multiple times over an 8 to 10 hour period. My hangovers got to where they would last almost a month and the day that I would feel them lift I would make plans to do it again. I spent 5 to 7 years in an almost perpetual E hangover state. I used for over 10 years, but it was really that last half that went downhill. I don't need to go into all the bad effects because we are all aware of them. I was a mess, and it was grim. I had a whole host of cognitive and mental problems, and I was convinced I was ruined for life.

Now for the good news. I've been drug free for 1 year & 3 months. I stopped drinking alcohol 8.5 months ago. Since then I've been sober except for caffeine from coffee. I have put a huge focus on healthy living, spirituality and personal growth. The recovery has been astounding and surpassed my wildest imaginations. My anxiety and depression are gone, my mind feels as sharp as ever, I am self-confident and the magic of life I always experienced as a youngster is coming back. I am excited about the life I am living, and I am very optimistic about the future.

I'm not telling you this to preach sobriety. It's just what worked best for me, and you may find something else works just as well for you. The whole point is to let you know that recovery from MDMA abuse is possible.

Best wishes for your recovery.

 

[Min2DaysRecovery]

It's great to hear all the advice from you guys. I have been on holiday for a month so I have only just seen this now. On holiday I could feel the symptoms lingering, but I could brush them off since I was with my friends and we were constantly doing stuff, at some points I even forgot that I had this problem. I felt a lot lot better with time, and it is only now that I'm back on my own and to this environment that I can feel it lingering its way back in. But knowing that I was in control of it during my holiday gives me hope that I can control this if I get in the right state of mind. Also today I felt a wave of anxiety come over me, which usually leads to panic attacks in my case, but I just thought to myself "oh fuck it, just get it over with" and surprisingly the wave of anxiety just went away literally within 20 seconds. Not fighting it definitely helped. If you have any more advice on this matter please don't hesitate to give some. Thanks again.

 

[Nambo]

Vancbc - just for interest sake, did you have eyesight problems and did they recover?
Thanks

 

[Thomas29]

I Believe Only If you Abused it DAILY for Long Periods And Also Had Shit Diet For Recovery Or Something. Like I used it once a month for a year so like 12 times or some before i used once every 5-6 months every august and feburary usually because thats how long it takes to feel like the first time everytime something about a certain receptor healing in that time frame causing the most effect of Serotnin Flooding.

 

[nightElf]

Nothing is permanent. The brain is amazing, it can recover from a stroke! You just need to give it time, stay clean, life a healthy life, and learn your limits

 

[Dresden]

If it's even approachingly pure MDMA.HCl you're getting (minus binders, lubricants, and fillers obviously if we're talking pressed pills), 125mg is plenty for a good 3 to 4 hours at a time at the least; 250mg of good stuff is overkill. However, even if you are bombing multiple quarter grams of MDMA in a night, drinking a bottle of wine or more is as least as brain damaging as that. It's like JWills20 hinted at: Reading supposed MDMA horror stories by other ex-users on the internet gives you anxiety and then you start to think you feel anxiety, which causes you to worry more about the horror stories even more, and the whole process becomes a sort of whole negative feedback, snowballing out of control anxiety feedback loop / self-fulfulling prophecy. If anything, you should consider giving up alcohol before MDMA; consequences of alcohol addiction are often dire as they continue into mid-life or beyond, whereas MDMA addiction burns itself out over a period of a year or so because, if nothing else, long lasting MDMA tolerance develops, thus making true long term MDMA addiction impossible! I abused the crap out of MDMA, LSD, and methamphetamine about 20 years ago, and the MDMA mental after effects were the least of my troubles. The ones caused by meth were due to impurities mainly and sleep deprivation but were rather unpleasant for a few weeks, and the LSD bad aftereffects--which were from bad set / setting, high dose, and inexperience all coming together in a perfect storm the first time I tried it--were a sort of months long lasting psychotic depression though they were the most traumatic.


In other words, it's all in you're head, and you'll be fine!!!

 

[colin681996]

If it's even approachingly pure MDMA.HCl you're getting (minus binders, lubricants, and fillers obviously if we're talking pressed pills), 125mg is plenty for a good 3 to 4 hours at a time at the least; 250mg of good stuff is overkill. However, even if you are bombing multiple quarter grams of MDMA in a night, drinking a bottle of wine or more is as least as brain damaging as that. It's like JWills20 hinted at: Reading supposed MDMA horror stories by other ex-users on the internet gives you anxiety and then you start to think you feel anxiety, which causes you to worry more about the horror stories even more, and the whole process becomes a sort of whole negative feedback, snowballing out of control anxiety feedback loop / self-fulfulling prophecy. If anything, you should consider giving up alcohol before MDMA; consequences of alcohol addiction are often dire as they continue into mid-life or beyond, whereas MDMA addiction burns itself out over a period of a year or so because, if nothing else, long lasting MDMA tolerance develops, thus making true long term MDMA addiction impossible! I abused the crap out of MDMA, LSD, and methamphetamine about 20 years ago, and the MDMA mental after effects were the least of my troubles. The ones caused by meth were due to impurities mainly and sleep deprivation but were rather unpleasant for a few weeks, and the LSD bad aftereffects--which were from bad set / setting, high dose, and inexperience all coming together in a perfect storm the first time I tried it--were a sort of months long lasting psychotic depression though they were the most traumatic.


In other words, it's all in you're head, and you'll be fine!!!

Please stop telling people ''It's all in their head''. If that was the case then he would be able to just snap out of it. I'm in the midst of an LTC at the moment and it definitley isn't just ''all in my head''. And I'm also sick of hearing the whole ''MDMA is less damaging than alcohol argument''. These people trying to protect MDMA likes its there babies. Every drug has its dangers and every drug can be safe or unsafe. For what it's worth, I think alcohol is a far more safer drug than MDMA

 

[joshii123]

Please stop telling people ''It's all in their head''. If that was the case then he would be able to just snap out of it. I'm in the midst of an LTC at the moment and it definitley isn't just ''all in my head''. And I'm also sick of hearing the whole ''MDMA is less damaging than alcohol argument''. These people trying to protect MDMA likes its there babies. Every drug has its dangers and every drug can be safe or unsafe. For what it's worth, I think alcohol is a far more safer drug than MDMA

Deffo man I know we all want mdma to be safer but it's not guys it's so obvious you deluded people

 

[BlueBull]

Deffo man I know we all want mdma to be safer but it's not guys it's so obvious you deluded people

Not really productive for discussion, calling people that do not agree with you deluded. The only place I ever ran into this issue is on this forum. I know some of the worst abuse cases you can imagine, a lot worse than almost every story I read on here, but still nobody I know ever had anything even remotely close to this. I've never run into it in real life, only on bluelight. Does this mean nothing is going on? Definitely not. But the cause can (again: can) very well be psychological, that's not being deluded, that's being logical. And to the poster above you: snap out of it? You try snapping out of a serious depression, curious to see how you would manage to do that. It's not because it's psychological that you can snap out of it, I wouldn't mention that to anyone with a mental illness, just snap out of it. MDMA isn't safe, no drug is, but to state that alcohol is less harmful than MDMA... Well, read the research I guess... Spoiler: it isn't

Long-term effects are almost certainly not permanent or we would have proof of MDMA causing permanent damage by now. The research available points into the other direction. The cause can still be physical, I'm interested in the theories about hormonal imbalances for instance, but permanent it almost certainly isn't

*edit*
By the way, I'm not for or against the anxiety theory, though I do believe anxiety can at least make it worse. However we've had a remarkable amount of bluelighters with this issue that at first were certain they suffered from brain damage, only to come back after a year when they were ok again and state that there is a good chance an anxiety loop was the root cause. Again, not stating I think the same, but it is something notable in any case...

 

[colin681996]

Not really productive for discussion, calling people that do not agree with you deluded. The only place I ever ran into this issue is on this forum. I know some of the worst abuse cases you can imagine, a lot worse than almost every story I read on here, but still nobody I know ever had anything even remotely close to this. I've never run into it in real life, only on bluelight. Does this mean nothing is going on? Definitely not. But the cause can (again: can) very well be psychological, that's not being deluded, that's being logical. And to the poster above you: snap out of it? You try snapping out of a serious depression, curious to see how you would manage to do that. It's not because it's psychological that you can snap out of it, I wouldn't mention that to anyone with a mental illness, just snap out of it. MDMA isn't safe, no drug is, but to state that alcohol is less harmful than MDMA... Well, read the research I guess... Spoiler: it isn't

Long-term effects are almost certainly not permanent or we would have proof of MDMA causing permanent damage by now. The research available points into the other direction. The cause can still be physical, I'm interested in the theories about hormonal imbalances for instance, but permanent it almost certainly isn't

*edit*
By the way, I'm not for or against the anxiety theory, though I do believe anxiety can at least make it worse. However we've had a remarkable amount of bluelighters with this issue that at first were certain they suffered from brain damage, only to come back after a year when they were ok again and state that there is a good chance an anxiety loop was the root cause. Again, not stating I think the same, but it is something notable in any case...

I agree with you, hence why I said drugs can be both safe and unsafe. I justy hate when people do a drug vs. drug compariosn e.g. Marijuana v MDMA, Alcohol v MDMA etc. All these drugs CAN be dangerous if used improperly. I also believe the whole LTC thing can be anxiety related for some people but for me it certainly is not