Misc Indian Warrior (pedicularis densiflora) questions...!

[88dood88]

I agree with guy above that Ive had a couple of decent hits from it on par with kratoms strength; well not on par but a couple nothces below; its a great synergiser imo. But the amount you need to take and the cost for me in the uk (its banned so its hard to find and really expensive~) made it not worht it. Plus i wanst comfortable tkaing something that may cause liver injury over time cos i want things to take semi regular i want to be confident they are non toxic.

You have to choke down loads of the vile earthy matter to get good hits and i found the amount you need causes nausea and headache if you go a little over. I am sure I could work wiht it more and find a nice dose but as i said im not happy using it regularly so havent continued experiments with it.

Yea its indeed great with kratom and not dissimilar to it's effects. I know what you mean about the taste as well. At first it was bad but it went down quickly and some chewing gum got rid of the aftertaste. But after a lot of drinks made, everytime I would knead the straining bag I would just feel so nauseous off the smell alone, it was horrible. Luckily I found a vendor that sells micronized kava, which acts like instant kava but has the potency (or very close to) of traditionally made kava. The taste wasn't nearly as foul either, nor as thick and slimy, so it was like chugging down a protein shake with water. It can be expensive though. With good vendors I never worried about liver damage. I used it for several months daily, on top of daily kratom, occasional amphetamine, sometimes weed & synthetic cannabinoids, and my supplement regime. Never had any issues, maybe I just have an iron liver though haha.

 

[incaseofaburglar]

Have you talked to a doctor about your nerve and muscle pain? That's what people I know who have either or both have done.

Yes, I am in physical therapy on a regular basis with someone who specializes with what I am going through. She also works closely with my doctor who I see as often as needed. I am starting aqua therapy in a week or two. However, I do not want to be on opiates (which I was originally prescribed, they were not really working, and I recently stopped taking them). The tricyclic antidepressants prescribed for nerve pain do not work for me (I have had negative side-effects, besides not wanting to be on them, either), I am now trying out gabapentin and hope it makes a dent in the pain. The pain is severe and I am looking at ALL options. I have always found some relief and help when it comes to plant medicine. I prefer plant medicine whenever possible. My physical therapist and doctor are pro me trying out herbs that do not negatively interact with the gabapentin. They see the amount of pain I am in and want me to feel better.

OK, so, report on the Indian Warrior: I am still experimenting. I know tolerance can build with the pedicularis species. So, I am only trying out doses with it every few days. However, just a few days ago I used a large dose of phenibut and I do not mix phenibut with anything (so I took a break with the pedicularis experimenting). Phenibut takes away my pain almost 100% and it allows me to sleep for long periods of time. The absence of pain lasted near 36 hours this time and really gave me the relief I needed (admittedly, this does not happen every time I take phenibut, sometimes it helps the pain and sometimes it just allows me to sleep a bit although the pain still lingers). Unfortunately, due to the tolerance issues with phenibut, I only take it once every 7 days, so I do need other options.

Anyway, back to Indian Warrior: I first tried a small dose (think it was around 300 mg), weighed it on a scale and put the powder in a capsule (I did this for all doses). I really did not feel anything that might not have been placebo. The next time I tried 600 mg, which again, did not do a whole lot. But, at around 800 mg- 1 gram, I am experiencing a very nice blanket of warmth and slight euphoria for a small amount of time before falling into a very nice sleep. It felt really good, kind of heavy, I wanted to melt into the couch I was laying on. When it came on it was definitely a definitive feeling, it was not placebo, it was very obvious. I am also taking skullcap just about daily and nightly, as well. Now, I did not sleep for more than 3-4 hours and I still woke up in pain. Now, ANY amount of sleep is a big plus for me right now, so I will take the few hours with pleasure!

I plan on trying a couple of other doses that are within 1-2 grams to see how it feels and if it makes a big difference in the experience. It would be great if I could find a dose that lasts a bit longer, maybe helps me fall back asleep if I do wake up, etc. -- a dose that is a bit more pronounced - without any negative side-effects. I will report my findings afterwards!

 

[sekio]

I'm not going to lose sleep over it lol, but burning and smoking ANYTHING gives you cancer?

Why don't people say that smoking weed causes cancer then?

Two American studies found that cannabis seemed unlikely to increase cancer risk. One, in 2006, found that there was an increased risk of cancers of the upper airways and digestive system (for example, the mouth, throat and food pipe). But when they adjusted the data to account for smoking cigarettes and other common risk factors, they found that the link with cannabis disappeared. In their data, it didn't seem to be the cannabis that was increasing the risk, but other factors such as smoking tobacco. They concluded that if cannabis did affect cancer risk, the effect was likely to be small. The other study, in 2009, looked at head and neck cancers. They found that risk of head and neck cancers in smokers and drinkers seemed to be lower in people who smoked cannabis as well. But this is only one study and we would need more research to show whether this was a reliable finding or not.

Finally, there is laboratory research looking at the effect of some chemicals in cannabis smoke on cancer cells. There is evidence that some of these substances can kill prostate cancer, breast cancer and brain tumour cells in the lab. The researchers do point out that using these pure substances in the lab is very different from smoking cannabis. They used far higher concentrations of each substance in their tests than you could get from smoking cannabis.

So at the moment we don't have clear evidence either way. We do know that smoking is unhealthy. And that, like tobacco, cannabis contains cancer causing substances. Therefore it would seem likely to increase cancer risk. But we need more research to know this for sure.

it's all about relative risk and risk management. living in a city where there's pollution increases baseline lung cancer rates a small amount. drinking hot tea or coffee will increase your risk of getting oral or throat cancer. eating well-cooked meat increases cancer risk too.

it could be the effect size is so small it's not relevant. it could be there's other lifestyle factors. it could be that thc helps protect cells from damage. nobody can sy for certain and we are still unsure if cannabis increases cancer risk at all.

the effect is certainly not as clear as the association between smoking tobacco and cancer incidence.

What makes you say they certainly arent responsible for its effects?

if they're not present in all specimens of indian warrior but the specimens are still psychoactive....

 

[deruyityn]

if they're not present in all specimens of indian warrior but the specimens are still psychoactive....

Naturally; I just wondered how you know they aren't present in any specimens. Any source for that? Or have you or know people who have tested them etc. or was it just an educated guess?

 

[sekio]

obviously they are present in some specimens.... there's publications stating so. but those are cases where indian warrior is grown close to other toxic plants. i don't think commercial cultivation would have that.

 

[deruyityn]

Interesting bit I found just now on the actives of pedicularis:

This was copied and pasted from edot

well for pedicularis Neolignan, phenylpropanoid and iridoid glycosides seem to be the actives.

the plant contains
Iridoid glycosides iridoids; 6-O-acetylaucubin; 8-epiloganin; mussaenoside; shanzhiside methyl ester; aucubin ; euphroside; plantarenaloside; shanzhiside methyl ester; gardoside methyl ester; ixoroside; 8-epiloganin; mussaenoside; pedicularioside; penstemoside; penstemonoside; boschnaloside;
and phenylpropanoid glycosides, verbascoside and pedicularioside
to name a few

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=163765#post163765

Does it sound accurate?