was pure MDMA more abundant back then?

[simplebrah]

I know a lot of people who say real raves back then were a lot more fun and that the scene wasn't like it is now, also most say that what we get now isn't as pure and good as it was, seems reasonable, I know it all depends on your connections and where you live. This one time I attended this event on the outside parts of my city in a warehouse at a private property, the cars had to turn off lights before parking and the whole thing was just way better than a normal rave, it wasn't very crowded but it was awesome I heard that's how it used to be back then. So how was the rave scene during the 80"s or 90"s? What has changed

 

[Dresden]

Everything's changed. Around 1997, it was warehouse parties and such and real molly was more prevalent because there were a lot more domestic MDMA producers at the time. Those kept getting shut down, so a lot of the ecstasy dance scene moved into (usually gay) nightclubs, some of which stayed open 24/7, and where it had never really left. Then those largely got shut down. Then it was major day festivals with astronomical ticket prices and dj pool parties. Now smaller, invite only campouts, often with themes, and with dj's seem to be where the righteously good, classic drugs and 'cool' scenes are to be found.

MDMA is much harder to find nowadays, but it hasn't completely disappeared or declined in quality as a whole at all. Some of us old-timers simply have (possibly permanent?) tolerance, that's all.

 

[Black]

quality depends a lot on where you live. over here in europe we get lots of insanely strong pills now (though that's a rather new development). pills like those were rare if not nonexistant back in the 90s.

one difference is that there were nearly no active adulterants (like methylone, piperazines, ...). if you got a pill (crystals/powder was pretty rare) that did something, it was always mdma.
another thing is that some people actively choose some of these new compounds to party and that for instance cocaine is much more popular than it was back then.
i only started partying in the early 00s, but the scene has surely changed a lot since then. when i started out almost all people who did drugs either did pills or speed (amphetamine not meth). now you have one guy rolling, another one doing coke, another doing methylone, and two others doing some untested cathinone derivative with questionable activity (probably sold as speed)...
if all people are on the same vibe from doing the same drug you'll inevitably get a different sense of community.

another factor is that the music was (very generally speaking) faster, more energetic, more focused on the kickdrum and more steady (without so many breaks, buildups and drops).
also whole culture was different. the main focus used to be on the dancers instead of the dj or a fancy light show. the dj booth was often tucked away in a corner or hidden behind the speakers. people would be dancing or interacting with the people around them instead of raising their hands and cheering towards the guy on the stage.

 

[Felonious Monk]

Oh yeah, based both on stories I've been told, read, and experiences I've had that I can directly correlate---it was MUCH different. If you go back to the 80s you can reach the time when they were selling MDMA legally at the bar, before it began illegal (and it was never quite as freewheeling as the Pranksters and their trashcans full of electric Kool-Aid--which were double dosed by accident on occasion). To the 90s before the RAVE Act when it was basically the same but underground--there'd be one (or 2 or 3, but not likely more), who were known by many people to have clean strong presses, and they'd practically be the official supplier of the event. I've been to a couple recent events where people have been openingly handing out MDMA but it's rare, and it has to be small.

 

[simplebrah]

quality depends a lot on where you live. over here in europe we get lots of insanely strong pills now (though that's a rather new development). pills like those were rare if not nonexistant back in the 90s.

one difference is that there were nearly no active adulterants (like methylone, piperazines, ...). if you got a pill (crystals/powder was pretty rare) that did something, it was always mdma.
another thing is that some people actively choose some of these new compounds to party and that for instance cocaine is much more popular than it was back then.
i only started partying in the early 00s, but the scene has surely changed a lot since then. when i started out almost all people who did drugs either did pills or speed (amphetamine not meth). now you have one guy rolling, another one doing coke, another doing methylone, and two others doing some untested cathinone derivative with questionable activity (probably sold as speed)...
if all people are on the same vibe from doing the same drug you'll inevitably get a different sense of community.

another factor is that the music was (very generally speaking) faster, more energetic, more focused on the kickdrum and more steady (without so many breaks, buildups and drops).
also whole culture was different. the main focus used to be on the dancers instead of the dj or a fancy light show. the dj booth was often tucked away in a corner or hidden behind the speakers. people would be dancing or interacting with the people around them instead of raising their hands and cheering towards the guy on the stage.

Sounds like it was way better back then, I wouldn't have thought it was so different from now. I guess the sense of community and respect before was also much more welcoming than the one in this generation... kind of sad actually.

 

[simplebrah]

Oh yeah, based both on stories I've been told, read, and experiences I've had that I can directly correlate---it was MUCH different. If you go back to the 80s you can reach the time when they were selling MDMA legally at the bar, before it began illegal (and it was never quite as freewheeling as the Pranksters and their trashcans full of electric Kool-Aid--which were double dosed by accident on occasion). To the 90s before the RAVE Act when it was basically the same but underground--there'd be one (or 2 or 3, but not likely more), who were known by many people to have clean strong presses, and they'd practically be the official supplier of the event. I've been to a couple recent events where people have been openingly handing out MDMA but it's rare, and it has to be small.

So there wouldn't be so many suppliers? I see that sounds way safer than now a days with everyone selling.

 

[Dresden]

It really would just depend on the event. For example, at a big warehouse party, my friends were the only ones selling real rolls (they had 100 pure caps--that's what we ravers called molly; molly was actually a family/hippie name for loose MDMA), and they sold out within minutes. Going to a rave was, before MDMA got so popular, one of the most reliable ways of obtaining e for many people, including me. However, I soon learned to dance and fell in love with the music, which got better over time. Other times, you would go up to someone trying to sell speed (we only had Mexican crank at the time), and they would be trying to sell you the same thing. For a while there, everyone was trying to be a dealer, it seemed. That didn't last long, though.

 

[simplebrah]

It really would just depend on the even. For example, at a big warehouse party, my friends were the only ones selling real rolls (they had 100 pure caps--that's what we ravers called molly; molly was actually a family/hippie name for loose MDMA), and they sold out within minutes. Going to a rave was, before MDMA got so popular, one of the most reliable ways of obtaining e for many people, including me. However, I soon learned to dance and fell in love with the music, which got better over time. Other times, you would go up to someone trying to sell speed (we only had Mexican crank at the time), and they would be trying to sell you the same thing. For a while there, everyone was trying to be a dealer, it seemed. That didn't last long, though.

One of the things that triggers my memories regarding MDMA is music, certain songs I listen to they make me remember the warm light feeling I felt when I first did it, I'm guessing for someone who was in the scene back then the stuff right now would be crap compared to a pure cap, something I have never been able to get my hands on. Raves now a days are still fun but I do wander how the original raves got down.

 

[epic11]

They are just being nostalgic. Mdma is just as good and just as pure as then. Dont listen to the hype. Its around.

 

[rujex]

one difference is that there were nearly no active adulterants (like methylone, piperazines, ...). if you got a pill (crystals/powder was pretty rare) that did something, it was always mdma.

There were really a lot PMA/PMMA pills. Not like now, when there is an media outcry, because some people died from the red superman pills.

Sadly it was way more common in the 90s/00s that people would fatally overdose on pills containing PMA/PMMA. Back then wasn't everything beautiful......

 

[Dresden]

I disagree...everything was beautiful in the 90s drug scenes. We had high quality MDMA, powder cocaine that was awesome, methamphetamine (ok, this one was only medium quality), killer kind bud, bucketfuls of LSD, shrooms, etc. and no RCs. And I never heard of PMA/PMMA pills until the Hive came along. Of course, the MDMA quality today is just as good--if you can find it (and dosed better if you can get today's European pressed pills)--but I already said that once in this thread.

Oh yeah...and who could forget the bottles of cheap, unscheduled veterinary ketamine (Ketaset)?!! [Ketaset (for animals) is better than Ketalar (hospital ketamine) btw.]

 

[Black]

There were really a lot PMA/PMMA pills. Not like now, when there is an media outcry, because some people died from the red superman pills.

Sadly it was way more common in the 90s/00s that people would fatally overdose on pills containing PMA/PMMA. Back then wasn't everything beautiful......

yes, of course there was pma, but very seldomly (pipes also but equally rare). maybe once every 1-2 years a pill would turn up and it would be up on the testing websites long before you had a chance to get your hands on it (if you came across them at all, i've never been offered any of those). at least it was like that in the early 00s in my area.
funnily enough, most of those presses were rolex

 

[turnupboss]

well i do think back in the day real mdma was more common instead of rc's cause there wasnt as much rc's then and i also believe back then there was more passionate chemist and dealers providing quality product not just a bunch of greedy money hungry rc dealers just tryna make quick money.

im not sure if its possible but sometimes i think the pure mdma back then was better quality compared to todays md at same purity. i feel like it was made with more skill or a better technique or something. kinda like how different brands of the same prescription drugs vary a little in how the high feels. also back then mda was around more and a lotta pills were made with mdma+mda which gives more intense strong effects.

 

[Nom de Plume]

If a drug's demand is unchanged whilst its supply is diminished, the typical result is a decrease in its average quality. That is, when a drug's demand outweighs its supply, the supply gets watered down to meet demand—one gram of MDMA can be sold to more consumers if it is dilute rather than pure.

In the past, MDMA and the various precursors used in its synthesis were less proscribed and considerably easier to procure for the manufacturer and hence not as difficult to obtain for the consumer. When a drug becomes more difficult to manufacture, it becomes just as difficult to acquire. And when it becomes more difficult to acquire (but no less demanded), its supply becomes more inferior.

 

[dopemaster]

Yes

 

[Dresden]

well i do think back in the day real mdma was more common instead of rc's cause there wasnt as much rc's then and i also believe back then there was more passionate chemist and dealers providing quality product not just a bunch of greedy money hungry rc dealers just tryna make quick money.

From getting to 'know' MDMA chemists at the Hive, yes, some--maybe 10%--were doing it for the love, but most of them had terrible attitudes which were borderline demonic even. I think even back then successfully running a clandestine MDMA lab without getting caught basically required a psychopath, who are not all that uncommon. Six percent of the population is considered to have Antisocial Personality Disorder (charming initial personality but with no conscience). Strike, who got 8 lonely years in a federal prison (in federal prison, everyone is in solitary with no human contact I believe) for selling chemicals to people who then made Mdxx from them, was definitely into making MDA for the love and spreading the 'sassafras gospel,' though.

 

[dopemaster]

I always get my shit from psychopaths or sociopaths. Anyone else is just an errand boy and I tell them if they send an errand boy we are gonna have a fucking problem.

With all these rc's out in the open fuck I would want two rolls on credit to test their legitimacy. I used to be able to lick a tablet to know if it was pure and if my home boy with the mdma powder showed up well fuck there were no worries there. I have never gotten sold a fake roll or molly but a few people have tried and where put in their place. See one hand washes the other and well that is a two sided relationship.

We are all corrupt on some level or stupid. I used to get pure mdma before they called it molly from this dude who worked for the government. I had to get him weed and clean piss for rolls. They were cheap as dirt as were all his other drugs. There were other favors such as the fact as I was 18-20 when I knew him and he was like 40 so he would want me to get younger women to come talk to us. Hell he would come up to my dorm with a backpack trying to pickup chicks after he dropped shit off.

None of us gave a second thought to our actions and I am just giving an example I can put up here. I suppose I can put up one more since this guy is dead now. He got off two murder charges and one GBH from self defense and temporary insanity. He gave everyone else the creeps but the thing was I just knew how he opperated. Come correct, don't act nervous, and do shit swift and clean. See he could smell a rat even if there was no rat cuz he was a psychopath. It is like a nasty dog. You know it ain't gonna hurt you if you play by its rules.

 

[rujex]

Ok, found some statistics from pill tests in the Netherlands for the years 1993 - 2000. Its in German, but the chart ("Tabelle Nr. 1" on page 3) should be fine anyway. "Andere" on top of the right means others and in the footnote are the possible substances mentioned.

Link: http://www.eve-rave.net/download.sp?file=dc111.pdf

 

[nightElf]

I think things were purer back then. You asked for MD, you got MD. Now you ask for MD, you can get BK-MD, Methilone, Cathinones or even empty pills

 

[Nom de Plume]

Spoiler: Caveat Lector

Honesty is easily and usually confused as hostility; It'd be incautious of me to sincerely think this comment wouldn't be unexceptional in this regard.

I always get my shit from
psychopaths or sociopaths. Anyone else is just an errand boy and I tell them if they send an errand boy we are gonna have a fucking problem.

Huh. How's that work? What? Do you employ a professional psychiatrist to administer the Hare Psychopathy Checklist to every prospective dealer before you buy from 'em?

Moreover, the quintessential psychopath is more venal than virtuous and lesser principled than perfidious. To put it succinctly, the psychopathic businessman—or, said another way, the professional capitalist—does only what is good for business. And what is good for business and what is good for clientele are typically not mutual.

So it goes without saying that you probably do get shit from psychopaths; anything better than shit wouldn't be a realistic expectation.

With all these rc's out in the open fuck I would want two rolls on credit to test their legitimacy. I used to be able to lick a tablet to know if it was pure and if my home boy with the mdma powder showed up well fuck there were no worries there. I have never gotten sold a fake roll or molly but a few people have tried and where put in their place. See one hand washes the other and well that is a two sided relationship.

So, in essence, you prefer psychopathic dealers but take umbrage with duplicity and mendacity? Psychopathy without shameless dishonesty, guile, obliquity, immorality, artifice, and unmitigated fourberie—without remorse, ruth, or regret—ceases to be psychopathy.

And in all earnest, after having finished reading your rather unlettered jeremaid, I'm left unsure if your major malfunction is in comedy or common sense.