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Where to start my education?

dasaniscorpion

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Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
2
This is all i know-
LSd affects serotonin receptors mainly
i know what axion, dendrites, a little of what action potential is, what SSRIs are what reuptake is, what a synapse is, what a synaptic gap is, and some other basic shit

but i do not know anything about anything other than that, i googled what a tryptamine was and it said something about an alkaloid, which i have no clue what it is.

where can i begin my research to become a biochem pro? and to become pro at Pharmacology. ty guys so much, this is my passion (Drugs) i would love to learn everything about them ty!
 
Learn basic organic chemistry and cell biology and then you probably have the groundwork for biochemistry/pharmacology.
 
So if you want to learn using wikipedia here are a couple topics you should read through:

-Binding affinity
-Agonists
-Antagonists
-Inverse Agonists

The "Concepts in Pharmacology" section at the bottom of the above pages is pretty good for getting a general idea of the rough things drugs do. But, you'll need some basic organic chemistry and cell biology for anything much further to make sense. I can say drug X is an antagonist at receptor Y, but what processes it blocks and/or removes inhibition on are a bit more high level. I'd probably look at some old cell biology textbooks or at Khan Academy for the basics, and then maybe wikipedia for a couple intermediate topics.

Now that focuses more on the cellular level, but for a more "why does drug X cause Z" you'll need a bit of physiology and/or neuroscience. An example would be "why does pseudoephedrine cause vasoconstriction (constriction of blood vessels)?". The pharmacology and cell biology tells you that it binds to alpha1 adrenoreceptors which triggers smooth muscle cell contraction, physiology would tell you that the smooth muscle makes up the walls of your larger blood vessels.

Its not so bad if you chip away at it, but definitely look into a basic organic chemistry course (at least nomenclature of compounds/groups), and basic cell biology as these you would probably benefit from having a structured course in.

Best,

EA

PS: can we please do something about PsychedelicWizard?
 
Should really check out the mcb80x link. It's not a traditional MOOC, I believe their team programmed the entire course and it's the best one I have seen.

There is also one called Neuronal Dynamics it requires advanced math though.

gl
 
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Some good places to start:

- Functions of the various receptors (5HT, DA, adrenergic, GABA etc.) and their subtypes.
- As somebody else mentioned: Agonists, antagonists, inverse agonists and binding affinity.
- Re-uptake inhibitors and releasers.
- Monoamine transporters (DAT, NET and SERT) and how these are affected by re-uptake inhibitors and releasers.
- Toxicology.
 
You can buy older editions of textbooks for relatively low prices on amazon.

Before learning organic chemistry it is common to learn general chemistry. However, many organic chemistry texts provide you with a quick introduction to the principles of general chemistry required for reading their book. General chemistry helps in one's understanding of mechanisms, but one can still reason through organic chemistry without having a strong general chemistry background. However, once moving into a laboratory, the understanding of stoichiometry that is enforced throughout general chemistry becomes necessary to understand. Because of this, for any young buddying biochemist, a great place to start is general chemistry (which is very boring IMO compared to organic chemistry). While I was in college, Steven S. Zumdahl's Chemical Principles was the standard text.

After general chemistry, organic chemistry is a common next step. But, like I said before, you may be able to pick up an organic chemistry text while having no general chemistry background, and still adequately learn the material (especially if you use the internet to google concepts like electronegativity and orbitals which are often mentioned in organic chemistry). In terms of a book of choice, we used Janice Gorzynski Smith's Organic Chemistry. The progression of the text is beautiful and allows for great self learning. It does not breeze over any mechanisms and explains each step. It starts from the pure basics and slowly works its way up to real synthesis. After I finished that book I felt confident in the idea and principles of basic synthesis. However, it only emphasizes principles of mechanistic organic chemistry and does not teach one laboratory techniques.

Concurrently while studying from Smith's Organic Chemistry, we used Daniel R. Palleros's Experimental Organic Chemistry. This book does not do a great job at teaching mechanisms, but does a great job at teaching you the basic laboratory techniques that are employed in industry. Of course, as most do not have labs to practice in, I would purchase Smith's Organic Chemistry first, get the hang of that, and move forward from there. Regarding biochemistry and molecular biology. I believe the best introductory biochemistry book is Nelson and Cox's Lehninger Principles of Biochemistry. This book starts at a cellular level and moves deep into the realm of biochemistry. I find myself still referencing this book to this day. Though it is an introductory text, it encompasses a HUGE amount of biochemistry and is (once again IMO) the single most influential and informative book in the world of biochemistry. Many universities also use Voet and Voet's Biochemistry. I used this book as well and find it very useful, but it covers very little not covered in the previous and does not cover everything covered in the previous. Physical chemistry (quantum/thermo/stats analysis) is not necessary in the slightest way to understand the majority of academic journals being published in the American Journal of Biochemistry. Learning quantum is great fun, but really does not serve the organic chemist on a day to day, though it does help build an even stronger understanding of the materials at hand. If you are wishing to make a career in organic chemistry, it will be useful to know some physical chemistry principles. For such, Donald A. McQuarrie's Quantum Chemistry and Engel and Reid's Thermodynamics, Statistical Thermodynamics, & Kinetics are both great text.

In medical school we used Lieberman and Mark's Basic Medical Biochemistry A Clinical Approach, and Lieberman and Ricer's Biochemistry, Molecular Biology & Genetics. Both of these books are watered down biochemistry, appropriate for a physician, but inappropriate for the aspiring biochemist or organic chemist as they downplay mechanisms and stoichiometry and emphasize reactant/enzyme/product relations that are high yield on medical board exams.In medical school we also used Katsung, Masters, and Trevor's Basic and Clinical Pharmacology. This book is great. It has many of the drugs discussed here, a decent description of their mechanisms of action, their history, their cross talk with other medicine, and their side effects.

To understand actions downstream of the site of drug interaction, I recommend Guyton and Hall's Textbook of Medical Physiology. This is what I used throughout the first two years of medical school (though I still reference it to this day when I am feeling rusty). This book is the final step in building an understanding of what many of the drugs discussed here do downstream of their site of action. It has some advanced topics and is written in anticipation that the reader has a decent scientific background, but is a relatively easy read and with the help of google it should not be a challenge to read. During graduate school (was enrolled in a dual degree -MD/PhD - program, with the PhD offered from the molecular and cellular biology department), we actually used Nelson and Cox's Lehninger Principles of Biochemistry again. Of course, by that time most of the reading was from academic journals and no longer from textbooks, but I still was told to look in the book for certain concepts.

There is a forever vast body of knowledge regarding the subject of your interest, it goes both far and deep. You can't learn it all in a day. In fact, you can never learn it all, no one can. However, knowledge is power, and it's yours for the taking. I wish you the best of luck on your academic endeavors. I don't expect anyone to go out and buy every textbook I just listed. I just listed them to be of help, so you can see what level of background a professional in the field has, and so you have a reference of great text that may be useful in your future.

I wish you and all alike the best of luck in your pre/current biochemical endeavors, cheers!
 
You can buy older editions of textbooks for relatively low prices on amazon.

Before learning organic chemistry it is common to learn general chemistry. However, many organic chemistry texts provide you with a quick introduction to the principles of general chemistry required for reading their book. General chemistry helps in one's understanding of mechanisms, but one can still reason through organic chemistry without having a strong general chemistry background. However, once moving into a laboratory, the understanding of stoichiometry that is enforced throughout general chemistry becomes necessary to understand. Because of this, for any young buddying biochemist, a great place to start is general chemistry (which is very boring IMO compared to organic chemistry). While I was in college, Steven S. Zumdahl's Chemical Principles was the standard text.

After general chemistry, organic chemistry is a common next step. But, like I said before, you may be able to pick up an organic chemistry text while having no general chemistry background, and still adequately learn the material (especially if you use the internet to google concepts like electronegativity and orbitals which are often mentioned in organic chemistry). In terms of a book of choice, we used Janice Gorzynski Smith's Organic Chemistry. The progression of the text is beautiful and allows for great self learning. It does not breeze over any mechanisms and explains each step. It starts from the pure basics and slowly works its way up to real synthesis. After I finished that book I felt confident in the idea and principles of basic synthesis. However, it only emphasizes principles of mechanistic organic chemistry and does not teach one laboratory techniques.

...

Of course, by that time most of the reading was from academic journals and no longer from textbooks, but I still was told to look in the book for certain concepts.

There is a forever vast body of knowledge regarding the subject of your interest, it goes both far and deep. You can't learn it all in a day. In fact, you can never learn it all, no one can. However, knowledge is power, and it's yours for the taking. I wish you the best of luck on your academic endeavors. I don't expect anyone to go out and buy every textbook I just listed. I just listed them to be of help, so you can see what level of background a professional in the field has, and so you have a reference of great text that may be useful in your future.

I wish you and all alike the best of luck in your pre/current biochemical endeavors, cheers!

They speak the truth, from what I can vouch for these are all excellent textbooks though I haven't used either Donald A. McQuarrie's Quantum Chemistry [/B]and Engel and Reid's Thermodynamics, Statistical Thermodynamics, & Kinetics.

I'd like to add in Rang and Dale's Pharmacology to that list. It's probably the best single resource I've come across for the material that's featured on bluelight, there are plenty of "available" copies floating online as well.

Btw what's your specialty? I'm working on my MD right now and looking into either a emergency medicine specialization or rural family+addictions+emergency training.

@dasaniscorpion:
What are your education goals and do you have any previous education?
 
Btw what's your specialty? I'm working on my MD right now and looking into either a emergency medicine specialization or rural family+addictions+emergency training.
?

Awesome! My cousins is an EM physician in Portland who completed his residency at UC Davis. I'm actually an 8th year (I know it sounds bad). I matched neurosurgery this year, and graduation is coming up in a few days 8o. I went to a seminar recently by an awesome EM doc. He had his masters in organic chemistry prior to medical school. After he completed both an EM residency and a toxicology fellowship....his stories were insane..seriously. Addiction medicine is an amazing field to go into, especially if you are research bound. This is the golden era of neuroscience, and publications prove it. NIDA is doing great (http://www.drugabuse.gov). Have you rotated EM yet? You really can't go wrong with any of the specialties you listed. My original intent (while in college) was to be a rural family care doc with an OB fellowship. I had a change in plans when I got consumed and obsessed with a research project that spiraled out of control. I hate to flood this topic with my personal interest. Feel free to PM me sometime Alpha! I am always interested in hearing about how people are drawn towards one specialty or another and their specific research goals!
 
I prefer Organic Chemistry by Ouellette and Rawn. You might as well be pre-med too, just be sure to put more effort into your university studies than I did with mine. I studied a lot in high school, then basically burned out by the time I was in college. Drugs played a major and deleterious role.
 
Good information, thanks. Many of us are really interested in this topic.

In formal education, i was thinking in Pure Chemistry or Pharmaceutical Chemistry (in Colombia) bD, and phD in Pharmacology or Neurosciences. My formal education was more focused on "botanical", "biochemistry" and "engineering", i have a degree in "Forestry" (called forestry engineer here) and work in my own -little- natural products company (never liked the job as engineer), but my interest in psychopharmacology of psychedelic drugs (and others) and potential terapeutic/medical uses is really big (i'm 27), specially because in my Country little work has been done in this field.
 
To the OP,

You'll need to go to at least a fairly decent 4-year college or university like everyone else and take exceedingly difficult science classes such as Organic Chemistry and Cell Biology with good grades to boot. After that, you will probably want to get a Ph.D in either neuropharmacology or medicinal chemistry. While your at it, you should go out of your way to be nice and friendly to all professors (don't burn any bridges!) and to do some undergraduate research with a professor/mentor who can then write you recommendations for grad school after getting to know you well because of all the research you did in his/her lab. The worst type of reference comes from a professor who doesn't remember you and lets the admissions committee know it.
 
hey guys, i would like some advice from you too. i like learning about the mind and the brain and would like to some day work in the field.
now, i already have the average 'drug nerd' knowledge, which i acquired informally through the internet, things such as receptor systems, binding/agonism/antagonism, functional selectivity, transporters, a bit of metabolism, electric personality of neurons, hebbian plasticity... a simple understanding of the brain and pharmacology that can make me understand drugs a bit. perhaps some of you saw some posts of me here in NPD and have some idea...

now, i would like to legitimize my knowledge so i can work with it. i know i'm gonna have to go to college, but MD is out of the question.

i was thinking perhaps 'pharmacy' (human anamoty, general experimental & theoric chemistry, biophysics & biochemistry, organic chemistry, molecular biology, pharmacology, kinetics and cognosis, genetics, etc...) in college. does it sound reasonable? but all people i see that go to 'pharmacy' in college work in drugstores...

then, there is technician (one and half year, below universitary and above high school ed, don't know the equivalent outside my country). i could take chemistry technician (organic chemistry, physic-chemistry, microbiology, quantitative chemical analysis, industrial processes...) or pharmacy technician (basic chemistry, biochemistry, pharmacology, pharmacotecvnics...) and then go to college for psychology... this way i'd have chemistry/pharmacy knowledge a swell as psychology which sounds like a nice combination to work on subjects related to drugs and the mind/brain... if i did simply pharmacy on college i could not see myself doing anything that wouldn't be strictly related to medicine/drugs, nothing about the mind...

well, what do you guys think? i'm just a young drug enthusiast and don't know where else to ask... thanks
 
Pharmacy will make you a jack of all trades and this obviously has advantages and disadvantages. Depending on your country it can be a solid career to pay off student debt (in my country it's very easy to find work in a pharmacy as long as you have a Bachelor's degree in the field). If you really want to delve into the mind/brain, pharmacy is indeed definitely not going to cut it but it will give you a solid base when it comes to chemistry, pharmacology, cell biology, physiology and biochemistry. You can then pursue something more specialized, but I don't think psychology is what you want, you'd probably be better off with psychopharmacology or neuroscience/cognition.

If the system in your country is anything like in mine, the 1.5 years of pharmacy technician education will teach you the things you have already taught yourself and I doubt you would find it very satisfying at all, unless stocking the shelves of a drugstore and selling people aspirin OTC is what you have in mind. My two cents.
 
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