Opioids Codeine Anomalous Effects

[Lazaraus45]

I just wanted to ask, does anyone else here find Codeine to be a very ideosyncratic drug?

yesterday I took 120mg in the form of 4 solpadol (30mg codeine/500mg paracetamol) for toothache, pain eased but no other effects

today I took 60mg in the form of 2 solpadol, I'm spaced and euphoric, not to a major degree but certainly noticable, I find this lack of correlation of dosage to effects to be common with Codeine, does anyone else?

furthermore, Codeine is one of the few opiates i've gotten euphoric off, Oxycontin, dihydrocodiene and a few others (never tried H) have never had any euphoric effects for me regardless of dose, any clue why?

 

[Lucy Bookit]

I know that some people are hypermetabolizers of codeine, which means you metabolize it into morphine better than other people. This may explain why it provides you with more euphoria.

Also you may not have noticed euphoria because of your pain--this happens to me. (I got 2mg im dilaudid two nights ago for pain and didn't provide me any euphoria although it should've.) When I used to take a lot of codeine, it would give me a strange euphoria, but I prefer hydrocodone/oxy etc..

 

[keeping]

did you take your codeine on an empty stomach? seems to be the main factor for lots of people.

 

[Rybee]

Drug dosage is just one of many factors that correlates with subjective effects. You have to look at the bigger picture to better understand cause and effect.

 

[Rachella666]

Takes me 300mg codeine to get high, just watch for the paracetamol, liver damage at high doses.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

Takes me 300mg codeine to get high, just watch for the paracetamol, liver damage at high doses.

Same. 60-120 is an analgesic dose, anything below 300mg is pretty pointless, and even that's weak. Going higher doesn't seem to be worth it in terms of increased itchiness and nausea. Codeine is one of the worst when it comes to histamine release.

 

[Keif' Richards]

As everyone knows, codeine is metabolized into morpine in vivo at a ~10:1 ratio. Does OP have experience with oral morphine? That might make for an interesting comparison.

Like others have said, there are a few variables that can effect metabolism: genetics/heredity, stomach content, certain OTC and prescription pharmaceuticals etc.

I don't get any effects from codeine. I've taken 500mgs CWE in one gulp and still not felt anything.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

As everyone knows, codeine is metabolized into morpine in vivo at a ~10:1 ratio. Does OP have experience with oral morphine? That might make for an interesting comparison.

Like others have said, there are a few variables that can effect metabolism: genetics/heredity, stomach content, certain OTC and prescription pharmaceuticals etc.

I don't get any effects from codeine. I've taken 500mgs CWE in one gulp and still not felt anything.

Either you've got a considerable tolerance to opioids or you're lacking the enzyme which metabolizes it into morphine.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Exactly, I just can't metabolize codeine. For that matter, I have trouble metabolizing the other 'codones. I'm a little fuzzy on just how related 'codones are to codeine, but it's my understanding that the suffix indicates some sort of relation between them. If I had to make a solid estimate, it takes about 10x as much hydrocodone or oxycodone to get me high than it would an average person.

Morphine/Morphones/Heroin are another story. I seem to metabolize these just fine, although I have a pretty high innate tolerance to these as well.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

Exactly, I just can't metabolize codeine. For that matter, I have trouble metabolizing the other 'codones. I'm a little fuzzy on just how related 'codones are to codeine, but it's my understanding that the suffix indicates some sort of relation between them. If I had to make a solid estimate, it takes about 10x as much hydrocodone or oxycodone to get me high than it would an average person.

Morphine/Morphones/Heroin are another story. I seem to metabolize these just fine, although I have a pretty high innate tolerance to these as well.

Codones are metabolized into morphones in small amounts. Codeine is a pure prodrug (as is heroin, but by a different mechanism), so if you lack the enzyme it is inactive. Hydrocodone and oxycodone, though active in their own right, are metabolized into small amounts of hydromorphone and oxymorphone, respectively.

 

[f33lg00d]

Drug dosage is just one of many factors that correlates with subjective effects. You have to look at the bigger picture to better understand cause and effect.

This. Dosage most certainly is biggest factor though, ask anyone dependent on opioids.

I have a feeling your low tolerance to opioids makes the effects of stronger opioids and higher doses of codiene less recreational. There is your personal biochemistry and preference involved too. Have you gotten euphoric on other opioids after your first good euphoria on codiene? Its not uncommon to not enjoy your first few opioid highs.

 

[Rachella666]

Same. 60-120 is an analgesic dose, anything below 300mg is pretty pointless, and even that's weak. Going higher doesn't seem to be worth it in terms of increased itchiness and nausea. Codeine is one of the worst when it comes to histamine release.

I totally agree, in terms of itchiness and i get VERY itchy, increased dosage isnt worth it, I nearly draw blood with the itchies.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

I totally agree, in terms of itchiness and i get VERY itchy, increased dosage isnt worth it, I nearly draw blood with the itchies.

Yep. Even then, the duration is like 1-2 hours, with another 2 or so residual effects (including the fucking itchy scratchies). Anyway, apparenly about 10% (in most people) is converted to morphine, and I've recently learned it produces hydrocodone up to 11% of the codeine as an active metabolite - still, 300mg of codeine feels nothing like 30mg of morphine (unless it works as if you ate that much, which would mean ~10mg, which is fuck all) plus 10mg hydrocodone should feel. It's more itchy than morphine and way shorter-acting and weak. Strange.

 

[Keif' Richards]

^You know there's a way to solve the problem of itchiness when using opioids. It doesn't work for everyone, but an antihistamine should make a big difference. I believe that the itchiness is caused by a histamine reaction. Consider taking 50-75mgs of diphenhydramine a short while before you dose your opioid. I end up taking antihistamines with mine anyway because I like the added sedation.

 

[wezface]

Same. 60-120 is an analgesic dose, anything below 300mg is pretty pointless, and even that's weak. Going higher doesn't seem to be worth it in terms of increased itchiness and nausea. Codeine is one of the worst when it comes to histamine release.

This is unconfirmed and if someone e can prove its truth or falsehood please do, but I have read that above 300mg the liver can no longer metabolize codeine properly and therefore 300 is kind of the cap dose as pee effectiveness.

 

[Lucy Bookit]

I used to use Benadryl syrup for the itch, worked wonders quickly.

 

[Psychonauticunt]

This is unconfirmed and if someone e can prove its truth or falsehood please do, but I have read that above 300mg the liver can no longer metabolize codeine properly and therefore 300 is kind of the cap dose as pee effectiveness.

First, I wasn't referring to this - I said that going over 300 is not worth it - the side effects outweigh the benefits.
I've heard of a "dosage ceiling" too but it certainly isn't 300mg, since I've had 390mg with more potent different effects.

Conceivably there could be a ceiling dose, as there is only a limited amount of enzymes to metabolize codeine into hydrocodone ad morphine. However, I think for most people it would exceed 300mg.

I just don't find getting higher worth it because of the histamine effect.

^You know there's a way to solve the problem of itchiness when using opioids. It doesn't work for everyone, but an antihistamine should make a big difference. I believe that the itchiness is caused by a histamine reaction. Consider taking 50-75mgs of diphenhydramine a short while before you dose your opioid. I end up taking antihistamines with mine anyway because I like the added sedation.

Yep, itchiness is histamine. I prefer hydroxyzine - helps with the itch, potentiates the opioid.