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Astronomy/Cosmology/Astrophysics thread - Even though there are no gods I still pray

^ I have not seen Hawking's take on it specifically but The Holographic Principle has been around for a while and seems to be essentially mainstream thought now. As far as I recall, it was originally brought in as a way to think about certain details in Black Hole physics but it goes beyond that. AFAIK Leonard Susskind was the one who came up with it originally (I may well be wrong on that, of course) and he is always worth watching/reading/listening to so...

Leonard Susskind on The World As Hologram - pretty accessible hour-long lecture on the Holographic Principle (his more in-depth ones are a bit beyond me but that talk is not too hard to follow)

A Thin Sheet of Reality: The Universe as a Hologram - Susskind, t'Hooft and a couple other fellas discussion panel aimed at a general audience

EDIT: Black Holes and Holographic Worlds - another discussion panel from the World Science Festival on the subject

Both worth a watch if interested in the hologram ideas.

In other "Lectures Wot Iz Worth a Watch" news... the new series of Gresham College Astronomy Lectures are up online. Only spotted 'em this morning so not actually watched any yet but they've been consistently excellent so have no doubt these will be too.

Astronomy Lecture Series 2015: An Introduction by Professor Joseph Silk
 
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Yeah Susskind was crucial in the development of the holographic principle. I only read a bit on Hawkings statement and it did seem a bit of a rethread of older topics but have to read more to see how his take is different.

Susskind is awesome. His "theoretical minimum" lectures at Stanford are available for free on youtube and really good, technical but not overly so.
 
pink-it inexplicably reduced brightness overnight, massively. instead of admitting the models am bunk-they recatagorised
 
There was a good horizon on the other day about multiverses. A bit annoying though, as it was confusing the multiverses (quantum and cosmological) together quite a bit, though it sort of sorted them out by the end i suppose (and then combined them all). I just generally find horizon annoying the way it dumbs stuff down - i watch horizon to find out about science, not see contrived interviews with funny camera angles, breathy voiceovers and patronising kindergarten demonstrations and flashy graphics - i mean, dumb it down a bit (a lot), put some flashy graphics in, but just push the dial a little further away from idiot bbc3 mode please. I liked it when it was impenetrable unkempt and hairy with lots of cardigans - i could just rewind the vhs and listen again (or crack out the wax cylinders ) - somewhere in between would be good :).

(faraday says to einstein: 'in my day, all this was fields')
 
I have knowledge of undergraduate physics (but I'm not yet up to the degree of maths needed for the arduous task of tackling quantum physics, and understanding it enough to graduate from completely naïve layperson to somewhat wiser neophyte).

Having only a shallow and crude comprehension of the mathematics of quantum mechanics, but such immense curiosity about how it works is bothersome. I'm not yet advanced enough into my studies to be equipped with the preliminary material required to grasp and appreciate quantum theories and phenomena, unfortunately.

But I am trying to figure out myself what benefit one gets out of solving the correct interpretation of quantum mechanics, since the theory and maths all seem to work so beautifully and precisely to describe nature anyway.

Maybe it is simply a sequela of my ignorance not to be able to see the implications, but if the math works so well what other benefits might accompany the arrival at an answer as to why the math works?

Is it simply the innate desire to understand nature, rather than just describe it, that gives physicists the impetus to interpret definitively quantum mechanics? Or is there something more—something less intangible and more rewarding—that might evolve out of this endeavor?

Or both? Perhaps neither, but instead a third possibility: that knowing how quantum mechanics works, rather than simply knowing that it does, allows the physicist a greater ability to delve deeper into quantum physics and disinter more knowledge of its goings-on and its deeper functioning? That is to say, would knowing the correct interpretation of quantum mechanics not just satiate our curiosity or simply evolve more precise theories, but actually make quantum mechanics itself less recondite and more come-at-able, such that we may explain hitherto unexplained phenomena, like the relations between classical and quantum mechanics or provide us the tools for developing a real, veritable Theory of Everything?

Hopefully, somebody more proficient in physics can come along and provide some assistance. Otherwise, I'll just remain tortured by my question until I find somebody expert enough to quench my curiosity, though I'm hopeful somebody here has got the education to enlighten me.
 
I think it depends what you want out of it - the experimentalist doesn't much mind if the theory is unintuitive if they get results, but the theorist wants to insist that it can be 'understood' in principle (anything else is more than their job's worth) - they might both argue about which has primacy to science, but it seems obviously some sort of yin/yang dialectical relationship or cycle (reflection/action). I'd say that the inability to understand what understanding actually is (except recursively through 'understanding' it), is maybe part of the problem. The semi-mysterious unconscious process of intuitive leaps and understanding seem to be responsible for much of the progress of science, and yet the rigourous intellectual experimentalism is also vital to refine the insights found this way (or else your 'just' a mystic (or an internet waffle merchant (i'm speaking about me (but if the cap fits ;)).

Then we could speculate whether understanding quantum physics as is requires finding something else out/creating a new theory, or whether it requires our intuition to adjust to match it - is intuitive understanding fixed with certain perspectives derived from the physical environment, or can it change over time, responding to the psychic environment? (if born now, would einstein still insist on the no dice rule? in 100 years?). Or put another way, is intuition really a sort of shortcut to some platonic higher realm (symbolically or 'actually') as some mathematically minded might say, or just another part of our flexible intelligence that works on different timescales.

In terms of many worlds theory of quantum physics, this is already 'intuitively' more appealing in principle (no copenhagen deus ex machinas needed) but the scale is so mind boggling it makes it less attractive for many intuitively (quantitively at least).

(as you can tell, i'm no quantum physicist (though i'm roughly familiar with the maths via different fields) - i've learned a lot from science fiction, which i consider to be part of the imagination of science, and important for expanding the boundaries of future intuitive leaps in the collective imagination) (or just a good read) (if you like far out brain-hurting science fiction, try Hannu Rajaniemi's quantum thief trilogy; or specifically on (copenhagen) quantum physics, Quarantine by greg egan))
 
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I think it depends what you want out of it - the experimentalist doesn't much mind if the theory is unintuitive if they get results, but the theorist wants to insist that it can be 'understood' in principle (anything else is more than their job's worth)[...]

Yes, I concur. But my problem has not so much to deal with what one wants to get out of an interpretation of quantum physics (or, taken from another perspective, what one can or could get—regardless if they actually do get or truly want to get anything—from the interpretation); rather I am concerned with the presupposition of if there even is anything tenable or scientifically appreciable to extract or derive from such an interpretation (and I'm presuming here that there is but a single correct interpretation that exists, insofar as there exists any correct interpretation at all).

That is to say, I agree with the notion that experimentalists and theoreticians would have disparate wants and putative applications from which they'd get out of the correct and real interpretation of the mathematical formulations of quantum mechanics.

Notwithstanding, this presupposes there to be anything, as opposed to nothing, from which one can get out of that foregoing interpretation. This is difficult to take, as I have not (and I leave open the possibility that I am an aberration or simply too unintelligent or uneducated, and therefore leave open the adjuvant possibility that my knowledge, and all my delusions and biases and fictions and presumptions unwittingly mistaken for or conflated with knowledge therewithal, is not reflective of all that is heretofore known to be the case) heard any convincing argument of it being possible for deriving something at all, most especial something arguably necessary or scientifically valuable, from arriving at such an interpretation of these mathematical formalisms.

(And I apologise if I sound repetitive or too obscure; I have always found taking thoughts from my head and formulating them in language a precarious thing. Either I come off as redundant and circumlocutory by dint of an overdone explanation, or I give the impression of being a wordy obscurantist that beggars interpretation. You never know exactly what one will find to be unnecessarily emphatic or unintelligibly enigmatic, so to say.)

they might both argue about which has primacy to science, but it seems obviously some sort of yin/yang dialectical relationship or cycle (reflection/action). I'd say that the inability to understand what understanding actually is (except recursively through 'understanding' it), is maybe part of the problem. The semi-mysterious unconscious process of intuitive leaps and understanding seem to be responsible for much of the progress of science, and yet the rigourous intellectual experimentalism is also vital to objectify the insights found this way (or else your 'just' a mystic (or an internet waffle merchant (i'm speaking about me (but if the cap fits ;)).

That was a close call. I nearly got caught in a snare of my own convoluted cogitation, dragged overboard and dropped in the deep end of a benthos of a profundity of pages of protracted, prolix harangue and a densely drawn-out declamation of difficult- to-parse, distended dialectical disquisition on my philosophical ruminations about the nature of knowledge and its acquisition.

I am starting to see I cannot discuss quantum mechanics without divagating away to the philosophy of physics. It is a subconscious reflexion of the agile and implacable intellect, I suppose: when I have neither the logic nor the mathematics to discuss a hard topic, I naturally recourse to philosophizing about it.

Then we could speculate whether understanding quantum physics as is requires finding something else out/creating a new theory, or whether it requires our intuition to adjust to match it - is intuitive understanding fixed with certain perspectives derived from the physical environment, or can it change over time, responding to the psychic environment? (if born now, would einstein still insist on the no dice rule? in 100 years?). Or put another way, is intuition really a sort of shortcut to some platonic higher realm ('real' or symbolic) as some mathematically minded might say, or just another part of our flexible intelligence that works on different timescales.

In terms of many worlds theory of quantum physics, this is already 'intuitively' more appealing in principle (no copenhagen deus ex machinas needed) but the scale is so mind boggling it makes it less attractive for many intuitively (quantitively at least).


(as you can tell, i'm no quantum physicist (though i'm roughly familiar with the maths via different fields) - i've learned a lot from science fiction, which i consider to be the imagination of science, and vital for laying the boundaries of future intuitive leaps) (or just a good read)

I'm enticed, but unsure if it would be wise or wasteful to engage and submit my own thoughts about the matter. Nevermind, I shan't; I don't think it would be well-received nor fairly respected. In fact, the purport of my writing will most likely be overlooked entirely, and my ideas diminished to mere nonsensical concatenations of large and lofty lexemes, debased and derided for its phraseological grandiloquence rather than praised and lauded for its philosophical grandeur. As if the two—turgid pomposity and cogent philosophy—were somehow incompatible (an earmark of the unread philosopher—compare myself to, say, Kant or Hegel or Heidegger or any renowned philosopher for a well-needed perspective).
 
*ahem*

As far as actual philosophy in relation to cosmology goes, this is a PooToob channel I've been watching quite a bit of of late...

Philosophy of Cosmology - it's pretty heavy on the maths but the wordforms are reasonably decipherable for the keen amateur. Depending on lecture, obviously. I can barely manage arithmetic and find many of these valuable and intriguing all the same.

In unrelated news, was reading an article in New Scientist recently featuring interviews with folk at the LHC talking about stuff they haven't quite officially discovered since it was upgraded. Five new particles they felt confident enough about to mention including at least one which features right-handed chirality. That's big fukkin' news if that pans out cos that would be the first right-handed particle ever discovered and that would likely open up whole new fields of physics due to it being one of the major mysteries as yet completely bereft of data. If I remember rightly that one is the one nearest to confirmation with four other "freaky things" they have no category for as yet. No signs of SUSY but a whole bunch of weird shit? That has to be the most desirable of all outcomes for the new and improved LHC. How many - if any - of these make it to confirmation is yet to be seen, of course, but got my attention and interest. Shame NS costs so fukkin' much ><
 
Total lunar eclipse (maybe with blood red supermoon) tonight.

The eclipse will start at 01:11 BST, when the Moon enters the lightest part of the Earth's shadow, known as the penumbra, and adopts a yellowish colour. At 03:11 BST, the Moon completely enters the umbra - the inner dark corpus of our planet's shadow.

The point of greatest eclipse occurs at 03:47 BST, when the Moon is closest to the centre of the umbra. The sky show is over by 05:22 in the morning on Monday.
 
Typical, it would have to be happening tonight when I need to finally get some kip after being awake since friday morning :(
 
I'll be oot tonight for it :D Not especially for the eclipse, but we had a night of astronomy planned anyway. It basically will be about the eclipse though because the moon is so damn bright that it bleaches out a lot of the dimmer objects.
 
No. I am wondering if Shambles or anyone is self taught on physics as I am attempting to do so now and could use some pointers.
 
It's easy. Just buy a patented Shambles kite and a Shambles lighting storm. Competitive rates :D
 
^ Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!! It's alive! It's alive!!! :D

Total lunar eclipse (maybe with blood red supermoon) tonight.

Did anybody see it a few days ago? Around the half-moon - reddest I've ever seen it. My Good Lady Sadie and I have been commenting on the relative enormity and brightness of the moon recently. Really very noticeable which I don't recall being the case last 'supermoon' we had.

Shambles, do you have formal education in physics?

Not beyond the age of 13 (I left school at 14) but have always read a lot of pop science books and try to keep up with what is going on in the worlds of physics (well, the bits I'm interested in anyway) along with cosmology and a smattering of astronomy via magazines, online articles (when I think to check sites) and mostly a great deal of university lectures and public talks posted up on YouTube - truly an excellent resource. So, in that sense, I would say Google certainly counts as being a provider of educational material. Only formal if you happen to be taking the course rather than just 'sitting in' on old lectures, of course.

Speaking of which, most recent series I've been watching is a few years old but I found a few of them especially useful - "String Theory: Achievements and Perspectives" (linky is to one of the Susskind lectures I particularly enjoyed - rest are a mixed bag and some are waaaaaay beyond me - sound quality is a problem on some unfortunately :<). Without knowledge of mathematics some topics can be tricky to get a real handle on but I find there's usually somebody who can explain a concept in words well enough to feel you have somewhat of a grasp of whatever it is that you want to know about. This can often take extended periods of watching lots of stuff on any given subject before it sinks in but I usually get to a stage where I feel I know enough for my own purposes (which is simple curiosity for the most part).

I'd like to be doing more astronomy as that is something anybody can do as long as they own a functioning pair of eyes. Think I'd be more enthused if I got myself a pair of decent binoculars or perhaps a telescope. One day.
 
I've been up a couple of days...the moon is freaking the FUCK out of me especially the pictures I just snapped on my crap mobile phone aghhhhhh...I am opening wine to steady my nerves...when is the peak of the supermoon 3amish? Uk?
 
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