BDSM and stimulants

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

Hi Bluelight:

Apparently, I am not the only one who has noticed how well these two things can go together. I am curious to any experiences, positive or negative that anyone would like to share in regards to bdsm specifically as it relates to being tweaked out on various substances.

A few of my own thoughts: It makes the mental mindfuck aspect of dynamic personality shifts easier when switching. It is amazing to me how easily I can slip in and out of the various types of head space with such substances. From the psychology of Mastery to feeling like a degraded slut and back again almost effortlessly. To do so sober requires far more will power and sense of purpose.

Higher doses seem to make me a super sadist/masochist. Enhanced pain threshold and lowered inhibitions for the win.

Altered tactile sensory effects are a personal fave as well. It's odd how although I find if all tweaked out I can take more pain then ever, I seem much more sensitive to sensual and gentle physical stimulation.

Please feel free to share, comment or interact on this topic.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

If you decide to engage in BDSM alone or with a partner, do it while sober, and not on drugs including high doses of stimulants like meth, coke, MDMA, bath salts, etc.

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

Thank you for your comment. Your position certainly mirrors the traditional wisdom. I won't argue against it regardless of my own opinions to the contrary. It's edgeplay and can certainly be dangerous. Don't want to have been up for three days and seeing double before attempting to catheterize someone and whatnot. I am fully aware of the traditional wisdom at it relates to RACK and the stigma associated with what I am talking about. With that said, this is clearly happening in various settings all around the world and I am curious as to the experiences of others both positive and negative. You sound as though you speak from experience. Have any anecdotes to share?

 

[Abject]

If you decide to engage in BDSM alone or with a partner, do it while sober, and not on drugs including high doses of stimulants like meth, coke, MDMA, bath salts, etc.

Care to explain why BDSM and stims/drugs don't go well together?
It's all good to make whatever statements you like if you explain your thinking, but throwing out baseless one-liners is another story.


To the OP: BDSM covers a wide range of actions and you'll have to be more specific, as there are many factors. If you're new/uncomfortable with something, don't be on psychedelics. If you're making someone bleed, don't have them be drunk. If you're doing breathplay make sure they're not on anything that causes hypoventilation because holding your breath does that on it's own, etc, etc.
Most things just affect your state of mind and have little relevance to safety/your health. Not to mention some things in BDSM are so risky that the added risk of taking ____ is diminished, or at least overshadowed, by the act itself.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Care to explain why BDSM and stims/drugs don't go well together?
It's all good to make whatever statements you like if you explain your thinking, but throwing out baseless one-liners is another story.


To the OP: BDSM covers a wide range of actions and you'll have to be more specific, as there are many factors. If you're new/uncomfortable with something, don't be on psychedelics. If you're making someone bleed, don't have them be drunk. If you're doing breathplay make sure they're not on anything that causes hypoventilation because holding your breath does that on it's own, etc, etc.
Most things just affect your state of mind and have little relevance to safety/your health. Not to mention some things in BDSM are so risky that the added risk of taking ____ is diminished, or at least overshadowed, by the act itself.

It's simple. Certain drugs make it difficult to feel pain, be able to tell if you're being restrained too tight, and some can inhibit communication.

Thank you for your comment. Your position certainly mirrors the traditional wisdom. I won't argue against it regardless of my own opinions to the contrary. It's edgeplay and can certainly be dangerous. Don't want to have been up for three days and seeing double before attempting to catheterize someone and whatnot. I am fully aware of the traditional wisdom at it relates to RACK and the stigma associated with what I am talking about. With that said, this is clearly happening in various settings all around the world and I am curious as to the experiences of others both positive and negative. You sound as though you speak from experience. Have any anecdotes to share?

I've dabbled with some BDSM activities; but I never combined BDSM or any sex with drugs other than alcohol in low/moderate amounts.

 

[Abject]

A bad diet would be worse than recreationally dosed drugs as far as tight bondage goes (blood pressure and shit.)
Some drugs affect your BP which is a more important aspect to take into account than not being able to tell bondage is too tight.
I mean I don't know if you've ever had circulation cut off, but it's something you can actually see - there is no way to be unaware of it being too tight as there are obvious visual symptoms.

Also the numbing to pain should not be any issue. If you don't feel the pain it seems like a stupid time to painplay, regardless, the amount of pain felt shouldn't impact the amount of damage done. That is to say just because x doesn't hurt as much as wanted you don't do x in a damaging way (irrespective of how you're hurting them, you wouldn't whip someone in the eye because doing it on their genitals wasn't painful enough)
I mean most forms of painplay leave fleeting marks like bruising/blunt trauma, light cuts/abrasions, short term skin irritation, etc. The few who do cut with a heavy hand would not cut deeper because their partner was on smack (not that many people want to have sex on opis)

It just seems like you're picturing a sub k-holing, in amateur bondage, whilst the "dom" is trying to fill their urethra with sriracha or something

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

A bad diet would be worse than recreationally dosed drugs as far as tight bondage goes (blood pressure and shit.)
Some drugs affect your BP which is a more important aspect to take into account than not being able to tell bondage is too tight.
I mean I don't know if you've ever had circulation cut off, but it's something you can actually see - there is no way to be unaware of it being too tight as there are obvious visual symptoms.

Also the numbing to pain should not be any issue. If you don't feel the pain it seems like a stupid time to painplay, regardless, the amount of pain felt shouldn't impact the amount of damage done. That is to say just because x doesn't hurt as much as wanted you don't do x in a damaging way (irrespective of how you're hurting them, you wouldn't whip someone in the eye because doing it on their genitals wasn't painful enough)
I mean most forms of painplay leave fleeting marks like bruising/blunt trauma, light cuts/abrasions, short term skin irritation, etc. The few who do cut with a heavy hand would not cut deeper because their partner was on smack (not that many people want to have sex on opis)

It just seems like you're picturing a sub k-holing, in amateur bondage, whilst the "dom" is trying to fill their urethra with sriracha or something

I did once encounter a guy who claimed to be a bondage top who was into putting men into heavy bondage including full mummification while very drunk on vodka which is just stupid and reckless for the unfortunate people who have sex with him.

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

To the OP: BDSM covers a wide range of actions and you'll have to be more specific, as there are many factors.

Specifically I am interested in individual anecdote based on personal experience, from anyone willing to share. I am already quite aware of what I do and don't like. I'm curious as to the experiences of others and find a unique opportunity in this forum to mount a discussion of this nature. I am open to virtually any discussion of the topic beyond that as well, with the notable exception of not wanting to debate the merits of the very common perception within the bdsm community that intoxication and edgeplay must always be mutually exclusive for safety's sake. I could mount a very convincing argument to the contrary but am not sure that doing so wouldn't be actively working against the harm reduction concept that is the core of this site. I can only speak for myself and would hate to think that my own outspoken and uninhibited verbosity in regard to my propensity for perversion would be a catalyst for someone to do something stupid.

If you're new/uncomfortable with something, don't be on psychedelics. If you're making someone bleed, don't have them be drunk. If you're doing breathplay make sure they're not on anything that causes hypoventilation because holding your breath does that on it's own, etc, etc.
Most things just affect your state of mind and have little relevance to safety/your health. Not to mention some things in BDSM are so risky that the added risk of taking ____ is diminished, or at least overshadowed, by the act itself.

I agree with all of the above wholeheartedly. Any noteworthy experiences you might like to share?

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

On an added note, the primary concern in my mind about substance abuse and bdsm play is the grey area of consent from an intoxicated submissive. If they can't feel what's happening to them, there are then some ethical concerns regarding pushing the boundaries of what someone who is intoxicated is willing to do, with their sensory perception dramatically altered. (This is actually one of my favorite things to do and I am only comfortable doing it with a fluid bonded partner, who I know quite well and who has previously agreed to consensual non consent as a default dynamic for our relationship.) I do not recommend that most people attempt anesthetizing their play partners, under most circumstances.

 

[LilikoiMoon]

BDSM has been part of my life for about 23 years. I met a guy at 17 who's parents raised him Gorean, so he turned me on to it, then I continued after.

BDSM was exciting enough eons ago without drugs. However, I did coke and smoked hash a few times prior.

Now you're making me want to collar up, find a master, sit at his feet, and pur. ?

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

BDSM has been part of my life for about 23 years. I met a guy at 17 who's parents raised him Gorean, so he turned me on to it, then I continued after.

Ah the joys of a nuclear family.

BDSM was exciting enough eons ago without drugs. However, I did coke and smoked hash a few times prior.

Do you recall how the use of those substances effected the bdsm related interactions that took place while intoxicated?

Now you're making me want to collar up, find a master, sit at his feet, and pur. 

It's important to have a hobby.

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

I did once encounter a guy who claimed to be a bondage top who was into putting men into heavy bondage including full mummification while very drunk on vodka which is just stupid and reckless for the unfortunate people who have sex with him.

I agree that this could be quite dangerous. Are you saying that the top was drunk or the mummified person or both?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I agree that this could be quite dangerous. Are you saying that the top was drunk or the mummified person or both?

The person doing the bondage the top/dominant/master was the one that was drunk.

I would not be surprised if the bottom/submissive/slave was drunk or intoxicated either.

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

The person doing the bondage the top/dominant/master was the one that was drunk.

I would not be surprised if the bottom/submissive/slave was drunk or intoxicated either.

That does sound highly questionable.

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

I'm still fishing for anecdote here. Also I'm curious about chemically induced, altered states of consciousness intertwined with this type of recreational activity, well beyond those caused by stimulants. I again invite anyone and everyone to share experiences, thoughts or even a funny joke if they like.

Keep those cards and letters coming.

 

[Boupstarnm]

It's the only way I can truly get into it.

I'd write more but just thinking about the pure, raw, uninhibited nasty sex is making me crave a needle full of mephedrone.

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

It's the only way I can truly get into it.

I'd write more but just thinking about the pure, raw, uninhibited nasty sex is making me crave a needle full of mephedrone.

Well thanks for sharing

 

[SpaceSquirrel]

Apparently, I am not the only one who has noticed how well these two things can go together. I am curious to any experiences, positive or negative that anyone would like to share in regards to bdsm specifically as it relates to being tweaked out on various substances.

A few of my own thoughts: It makes the mental mindfuck aspect of dynamic personality shifts easier when switching. It is amazing to me how easily I can slip in and out of the various types of head space with such substances. From the psychology of Mastery to feeling like a degraded slut and back again almost effortlessly. To do so sober requires far more will power and sense of purpose.

Higher doses seem to make me a super sadist/masochist. Enhanced pain threshold and lowered inhibitions for the win.

Altered tactile sensory effects are a personal fave as well. It's odd how although I find if all tweaked out I can take more pain then ever, I seem much more sensitive to sensual and gentle physical stimulation.

All of this.

I've been involved in bdsm as a switch for the last 25 years and just a few years ago began experimenting with different substances. Then slowly started to combine the two. It's been a pretty mindblowing journey.

My favourite for bdsm is a coke/GHB combo. Just as you said, I can tune into any mind set I like, effortlessly, with just a thought. Cold and merciless mistress, empathic and caring service top, submissive with total ego dissolution, insatiable gangbang slut, you name it. I can do any of those sober, but not as easily and quite as deeply. There are also a few things I cannot (yet) repeat without drug fueled inhibition, but I'm working on that.

Speed/amphetamines are nice in that regard, too. I have yet to try meth.

I also love kinky orgies with everyone on MDMA. That doesn't get too mean and vicious for obvious reasons.

Apart from stims I also like (giving and receiving) chemically induced defenselessness. Favourite combo for that is GHB up to the sweet spot when you're still just awake but moving feels like too much work. Then add a nitrous balloon or two. Awesome for rape play and reasonably safe.

Regarding safety: I consider adding substances just another aspect of the whole Risk Aware Consensual Kink thing. Risk assessment is a very personal thing, it just doesn't make sense to make up general rules. It helps to make up your own though and maybe even write them down so you stick to them while tweaked. With larger group settings we have a sober sitter around, preferrably with a medical background. It's probably also a good idea to do your scene negotiation sober, although I usually play with people I know well so we can go with the flow even if we're all high. We usually turn it down a notch with the more dangerous activities when the top is on a substance and there is no sitter, and we also try to compensate for an altered pain perception of the submissive. So far it has all gone well, although there have been situations when in hindsight things could have gone wrong a little too easily. We learned and didn't repeat those situations.

I also want to stress again that I consider myself to be a highly experienced player and so are most of my partners. Training and routine really helps when some of your common sense is lost. So does using a clock and timers when your sense of time is going to be distorted (for duration of bondage or clamps as well as when to drink water or re-dose GHB for instance).

Gosh I'm glad I found a forum where you can discuss those things. In another forum I asked a question about possible risks of doing a certain breath control technique on a substance and the thread got closed because "you don't to that" and "that gets people killed". On a harm reduction forum. I mean, seriously, how's that different from the government's "just say no" bullshit?

 

[MoreAlkaloidsPLZ]

All of this.

I've been involved in bdsm as a switch for the last 25 years and just a few years ago began experimenting with different substances. Then slowly started to combine the two. It's been a pretty mindblowing journey.

Just the type of feedback I was looking for. Thanks for sharing.

My favourite for bdsm is a coke/GHB combo. Just as you said, I can tune into any mind set I like, effortlessly, with just a thought. Cold and merciless mistress, empathic and caring service top, submissive with total ego dissolution, insatiable gangbang slut, you name it. I can do any of those sober, but not as easily and quite as deeply. There are also a few things I cannot (yet) repeat without drug fueled inhibition, but I'm working on that.

I'm particularly interested in hearing more about the bolded portion, if you would be willing to elaborate.

Speed/amphetamines are nice in that regard, too. I have yet to try meth.

I also love kinky orgies with everyone on MDMA. That doesn't get too mean and vicious for obvious reasons.

It takes a pretty dedicated sadist to viciously inflict pain when rolling face. Should that occur however, there is typically plenty of Vicks vapor rub handy for use as lube.

Apart from stims I also like (giving and receiving) chemically induced defenselessness. Favourite combo for that is GHB up to the sweet spot when you're still just awake but moving feels like too much work. Then add a nitrous balloon or two. Awesome for rape play and reasonably safe.

Regarding safety: I consider adding substances just another aspect of the whole Risk Aware Consensual Kink thing. Risk assessment is a very personal thing, it just doesn't make sense to make up general rules. It helps to make up your own though and maybe even write them down so you stick to them while tweaked. With larger group settings we have a sober sitter around, preferably with a medical background. It's probably also a good idea to do your scene negotiation sober, although I usually play with people I know well so we can go with the flow even if we're all high. We usually turn it down a notch with the more dangerous activities when the top is on a substance and there is no sitter, and we also try to compensate for an altered pain perception of the submissive. So far it has all gone well, although there have been situations when in hindsight things could have gone wrong a little too easily. We learned and didn't repeat those situations.

Sounds reasonable to me.

I also want to stress again that I consider myself to be a highly experienced player and so are most of my partners. Training and routine really helps when some of your common sense is lost. So does using a clock and timers when your sense of time is going to be distorted (for duration of bondage or clamps as well as when to drink water or re-dose GHB for instance).

Timers can be fun in and of themselves too..

Gosh I'm glad I found a forum where you can discuss those things. In another forum I asked a question about possible risks of doing a certain breath control technique on a substance and the thread got closed because "you don't to that" and "that gets people killed". On a harm reduction forum. I mean, seriously, how's that different from the government's "just say no" bullshit?

Yeah, this type of conversation is going to be met with some pretty fierce resistance on traditional bdsm discussion boards/interactive formats. Probably won't go over super smoothly if brought up at munches and community events either. Thank goodness for bluelight

 

[SpaceSquirrel]

I'm particularly interested in hearing more about the bolded portion, if you would be willing to elaborate.

Nothing spectacular or entertaining really, and most of it not even kinky. More "real life" personal issues. Stuff like passionately french kissing my lover right after he smoked a cigarette for instance (grew up among chain smokers and have a bit of a trauma in that regard). Or completely stopping to worry about my looks when playing.

It takes a pretty dedicated sadist to viciously inflict pain when rolling face. Should that occur however, there is typically plenty of Vicks vapor rub handy for use as lube.

LOL. Indeed.

Yeah, this type of conversation is going to be met with some pretty fierce resistance on traditional bdsm discussion boards/interactive formats. Probably won't go over super smoothly if brought up at munches and community events either. Thank goodness for bluelight

Yeah, I'm always treading carefully there. Which is a shame because nobody daring to talk about it makes it so much harder to expand the circle of friends you can play with that way. There are a couple of groups on fetlife dedicated to the subject of drugs and kink which is great, but then again most of those people aren't anywhere near us. Still dreaming about holding a "Party'n'Play" workshop at one of our local gatherings, but I'm way too worried about my reputation (I'm a pro domme but don't use substances with clients), let alone legal consequences.