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Bobby Jindal signs into law bill increasing heroin penalties for dealers to 99 years

SixBuckets said:
I think you may have misread my post. The 'bucket' I was referring to was stigma itself.



That's kinda how prevention works, though? It's unrealistic to screen everyone in the world (when? As children? When do these personality traits become measurable?) in the hope of identifying individuals who may develop substance abuse problems. I'm also quite interested to see that you're really adverse to acknowledging the overlap between mental illness and substance abuse, yet have no problem testing for people who have personality traits and viewing them as potential substance abusers. No matter what metric we use to evaluate risk, there are going to be people captured who do not and would not use drugs.

Cool. Like I said, I'd be interested in reading the study.
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I would disagree with screening because it wouldn't have a purpose. Many high schools are screening ALL students for mental illness now including depression, i agree with that, because it can get these students help. Sensation-seeking and impulsivity aren't really considered illnesses, altho they can have consequences (i.e the study) If a student took the test and it showed he/she was an impulsive type, for example, what next? send them to a counselor for that? not really.

I believe many people are potential substance users, but i've seen many people try hard drugs and be able to handle it, whereas other people got hooked so fast. Some people can handle their highs, some can't. The question isn't substance USE, it's substance addiction.
 
Trying2Iso said:
I would disagree with screening because it wouldn't have a purpose. Many high schools are screening ALL students for mental illness now including depression, i agree with that, because it can get these students help. Sensation-seeking and impulsivity aren't really considered illnesses, altho they can have consequences (i.e the study) If a student took the test and it showed he/she was an impulsive type, for example, what next? send them to a counselor for that? not really.

I believe many people are potential substance users, but i've seen many people try hard drugs and be able to handle it, whereas other people got hooked so fast. Some people can handle their highs, some can't. The question isn't substance USE, it's substance addiction.
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Sorry, but I'm becoming increasingly unsure what point you're trying to make.
 
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SixBuckets said:
Sorry, but I'm becoming increasingly unsure what point you're trying to make.
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did you read the two other studies i posted?

Here's my point: (have to say this has been a good discussion)
Certain types of personalities are more likely to lead to addiction.
People who lack certain traits have a greater chance of using drugs without becoming addicted.
A substance user is not the same as a substance addict, i am just talking about susceptibility to addiction.
Sensation-seeking and impulsivity are not mental illnesses (rather, traits), but can contribute to susceptibility for addiction.

read those other 2 also they are interesting
 
This law is completely ridiculous and overkill. Yes heroin is a dangerous substance, and some of its users do commit crimes and are criminals in their own right. But heroin dealers are not murderers. People have free will, even in the midst of crippling addiction.

If someone gets drunk and kills someone in a car crash, does the clerk who sold him that booze go to prison for the rest of his life?? Thats the hypocrisy of the drug war.
 
shroomyboom said:
People have free will, even in the midst of crippling addiction.
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I disagree with this statement, addiction by definition is out of that person's control. If they can stop using the dangerous substance whenever they want, they are not addicted.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/addiction/
addiction is an illness as much as any mental illness is, and is accepted as a true phenomenon by the medical community.
 
More like it is used as an excuse by the medical community. Sure being an addict is hard, but it still comes down to personal choice. Addicts are not mindless zombies controlled by their urges. The millions of recovered addicts are testament to the human minds ability to overcome and recover.
 
One Thousand Words said:
More like it is used as an excuse by the medical community. Sure being an addict is hard, but it still comes down to personal choice. Addicts are not mindless zombies controlled by their urges. The millions of recovered addicts are testament to the human minds ability to overcome and recover.
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i know many addicts who want to quit more than anything but can't. Some addictions are so strong people can't help but relapse, look up addiction's effects on the mesolimbic reward pathway.
That's quite a generalization you are making, way to try and oversimplify the world... lol
 
Trying2Iso said:
heroin dealers are evil tho, they ruin people's lives for money that the addicts sometimes commit crimes to get so that they don't go into withdrawal.
Heroin dealers know what they are doing and they are fine profiting from it.
the only heroin dealers i don't despise are the ones who do it to feed their own habit, and that's because they're addicts just like their customers.
addiction is an illness, and these dealers are making it so much worse
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They are just supplying a product that people actually want. It's supply and demand and the only reason black market dealers exist is because of stupid laws making it illegal. Would you want a pharmacist to get life simply because he may have filled a opiate script to someone who was just using it to get high as opposed to being in pain? The last time i checked people only bought drugs because they wanted to not because anyone made them to. And of course they are going to make a fucking profit from it as why the fuck else would you do it if you where not making cash off it? The solution to this problem of course is simply legalizing all drugs and selling them in the same manner as you would alcohol but somehow people can't get that.
 
paranoid android said:
Would you want a pharmacist to get life simply because he may have filled a opiate script to someone who was just using it to get high as opposed to being in pain?
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The difference here is drug dealers know when someone is addicted, they know how much their client uses because they are the client's supplier.
Anyone with half a brain will know smoking meth every day isn't medicinal in any sense of the word. just an example.
the pharmacist doesn't know the patient is misusing a script, obviously the patient wouldn't tell him that because then said patient wouldn't receive it.
 
My friends are ex heroin addicts and their doctor and the pharmacist happily give them scripts and drugs to keep going on their 8 year plus oxy addiction. I guess it saves them from having to source heroin. I'm pretty sure they have been legally using oxy for over 8 yrs now. Probably with top ups from illegal sources too.

Their doctor doesn't seem interested in getting them off it either.
 
poledriver said:
My friends are ex heroin addicts and their doctor and the pharmacist happily give them scripts and drugs to keep going on their 8 year plus oxy addiction. I guess it saves them from having to source heroin. I'm pretty sure they have been legally using oxy for over 8 yrs now. Probably with top ups from illegal sources too.

Their doctor doesn't seem interested in getting them off it either.
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Then that doctor should lose his medical license?
He's no better than a heroin dealer.
 
Trying2Iso said:
Then that doctor should lose his medical license?
He's no better than a heroin dealer.
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So i guess you don't agree with giving recovering addicts Methadone or Buprenorphine either then as they are clearly given for addiction? I have actually heard first hand of doctors giving their patients a prescription opiate like Morphine as a substitute for Heroin and i don't see anything wrong with that. Giving someone a prescription opiate is both affordable and safer (as you actually know the potency and what is in it) for the addict granted they lay off the smack or any other opiates. Before the whole oxy "epidemic" i knew a few people getting the pure Codeine pills on script as a way to taper off street opiates. I doubt it's done much now though as doctors are scared to even prescribe fucking Tylenol#3's to someone with a broken arm now ffs .

As for the whole dealer issue it is pure economics. There is a demand for the product thus someone will find a way to supply the product for a price. Noone is going to give out Heroin for free just like noone is going to give out Cigarettes for free. The problem is not with dealers it is with the prohibition of drugs and dealers are not the only ones making money from the drug trade. Think of all the cash that police departments get in their budget solely to bust addicts and dealers. If all drugs where legalized tomorrow there would be a fuck of alot of cops on the unemployment line and department budgets would be slashed to fuck. Not to mention the DEA would be completely out of business. Say what you want but atleast dealers are honest about making cash off the drug trade unlike the pigs.
 
Buprenorphine and methadone are medicines for addiction. I totally agree with their use, as long as there are measures taken to prevent abuse.
I just don't think it is a doctor's place to be getting people high, they prescribe opiods to treat pain and to lessen the withdrawals of opiate addiction.

TBH, man, this whole thread I've never actually said drugs should be legal or illegal and i never said that i agree with heroin dealers going to prison for 99 years.
If what i wrote sounded like that i apologize.
I don't know exactly know where i stand on drug legalization, but i do believe that if drugs were legalized there would be definite downsides, upsides as well, but also downsides.
 
For one, drugs would be more available and easier to obtain. Even for minors. I'm assuming under drug legalization you'd have to be 21 to purchase them but that hasn't stopped high school kids from getting alcohol. There would never NOT be any drug you wanted ever. that could be a problem.
I, for one, can say that if coke was sold at the liquor store, i cant see myself ever having extra money and NOT spending it on coke. If it was that easy, and legally risk-free, i would always find some way to convince myself that it was okay to get some.
Many people i know would be like that too.
Getting drugs is a hassle for me...
Plus, once something is legal that introduces it to a whole new demographic of people who think "if it's legal, it must be safe."
Alcohol is a terrible drug, it's horrible for you, but so many people think it is okay just because it is legal and socially accepted.
I'm not saying that drugs should be legal or illegal, because I also believe that just because some can't handle it doesn't mean the people who can handle it shouldn't be allowed to have it.
but it goes both ways
 
Honestly I'm not sure, I'm sure Nestor rings a bell somewhere (in my head). I just mention Hart as you mentioned how you would think you'd find it irresistible to spend any extra money you had on coke. That very well may be true (I don't know and it's not exactly my place to say I figure). Chances are however that most people wouldn't spend every last cent - or even all their extra grocery money - on coke (if it were as legal as booze and cigarettes and sold at the corner store as I'm assuming you were saying). Just a thought.
 
toothpastedog said:
Honestly I'm not sure, I'm sure Nestor rings a bell somewhere (in my head). I just mention Hart as you mentioned how you would think you'd find it irresistible to spend any extra money you had on coke. That very well may be true (I don't know and it's not exactly my place to say I figure). Chances are however that most people wouldn't spend every last cent - or even all their extra grocery money - on coke (if it were as legal as booze and cigarettes and sold at the corner store as I'm assuming you were saying). Just a thought.
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I know plenty of people who would spend every last extra cent they had, even their food money sometimes. Drug addicts, for example.
Especially considering the increased convenience, availability, and selection for recreational drugs should they all become legal.
I'd be a kid in a candy shop
Not saying everyone would be, many people have an addictive personality combined with a love of chemicals...
 
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