Opioids Tianeptine Megathread v1

[Znegative]

OK, for everyone saying that there is no cross tolerance with opiates... I call complete bullshit on that.

Perhaps, if you're using really small oral dosages of tianeptine, there will be no cross tolerance or risk of addiction, but if you, like me, can't help but bangi up 100mg shots 20 or so times a day, there is a huge risk of addiction and cross tolerance. With the exception of my last tianeptine bender where I purposely lowered my dose immensely and switched between IV, oral and rectal; I have had EXTREME withdrawals coming off tianeptine. Withdrawals that Buprenorphine couldn't even put a dent in. I cannot stress how miserable I would feel, taking sometimes as much as 32mg of suboxone in a day and finding NO RELIEF. Just dripping with that horrible but now familiar yogurt smelling cold sweat.

If you're and IV drug user, Tianeptine is an easy drug to get seduced by. It's an 'opioid' with a compulsion to redose much akin to IV cocaine. It is one of the best rushes I've ever experienced, honestly (I truly prefer it to heroin in that regard), but it is caustic as fuck, and will burn out your veins after 1-3 shots (if you get 3 out of a vein your real lucky). Even my Cephalic, Brachial and Femoral petered out for a while, with the right side of my groin swelling up to the point that it looked like I had a pussy next to my dick for a few days. This stuff is no joke. When people say it's bad to shoot, they are not just talking about the pills, Tianeptine Sodium will wreak havoc on your circulatory system!

On another note, it is pretty forgiving in the regard that like kratom it is pretty easy to lower your dosage, or switch from IV to oral dosing (which has a 90% BA which is very convenient).

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Znegative, I tried to send you a PM but your box is full. I copied and pasted my message below... Maybe you or anyone else who has any advice to offer can reply:

Hello,

I saw your recent post in the Tianeptine megathread. In your post, you mentioned a couple experiences you had with withdrawaling from Tianeptine. You said a couple times you quit cold turkey from some 20 200mg IV doses per day and experienced extreme withdrawals. You also mentioned one time tapering down and switching up ROAs which you alluded made withdrawals much less severe.

When you tapered, how low did you taper before stopping?

I've been foolishy using Tianeptine daily for a year and a half. I mostly take it orally though at my worst I was snorting lots of 50 to 100mg bumps on top of my oral doses. Snorting was quite effective (although extremely painful in the beginning). I try not to do that anymore... It started to REALLY get out of hand. I was redosing every 45 minutes.

I was using 3+ grams of the sodium salt a day at my worst (i even got to 4-5 g per day for a short while) I was taking 250mg oral doses 12 times a day (and snorting more on top of that for awhile).

At that point, anytime i let myself go into withdrawal, the withdrawals would hit fast and hard. It was scary how intense they were. I have plenty of history with opiate addiction and withdrawals, but these Tianeptine withdrawals were the worst I've experienced. So I started tapering with the intention of quiting soon.

I've worked my way down to about a gram a day of the free acid type. I am taking 125mg doses 8 times a day. When I let myself go into withdrawals now, they aren't as scarily intense, hardcore or quick to develop as before but they still suck. I know there is no avoiding the suck, but I can try to get as low as possible to make things as bearable as possible.

It's getting difficult to taper lower but I must keep going lower before either switching to kratom and tapering, or just quitting and getting it over with. The biggest problem I am having is 125mg only holds me about 2/3 hours. When I try to taper lower, the interdose withdrawals are getting to be too much. It's like I'm on a roller coaster that goes up and down 8 times a day (including in the middle of the night).

I guess I could try taking smaller doses more frequently (but still less than my total daily consumption so that I'm still tapering) but I dunno if that's wise. I guess it would help keep more constant levels. Switching to another opiate/opioid is not a possibility, except for kratom but I want to taper more before switching.

I'm just curious how low you tapered, how bad it was to quit once you did and any other advice regarding tapering/withdrawals you may have specific to Tianeptine that you don't mind sharing.

Thank you.

 

[robotwars]

In my vast experience with this crap I can say 2 things,

1)The withdrawal is completely unjustified. You may feel pretty good the first time you take it, and it may feel "alright" redosing. But seriously, this crap is no better than Kratom and has the most ridiculous withdrawals.

2) If you enjoy kratom, don't take this bullshit. It fucking ruined kratom for me.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

2) If you enjoy kratom, don't take this bullshit. It fucking ruined kratom for me.

Yea same here. Before I got hooked on Tianeptine I was using kratom sporadically (note: I've been heavily addicted to opiates/opioids before, but I was clean for a couple years at this time)

At the time, I was taking 1 to 2g doses of kratom and was completely enjoying it. Now, after abusing Tianeptine, I can barely feel a 10g dose.

I am currently tapering off Tianeptine. The lower I get, the more I am able to feel kratom. So I am positive that with enough abstinence from Tianeptine, I will be able to use kratom again like I used to.

--------------------------

A couple of posts ago, I posted that awhile back I was using 3+grams of Tianeptine sodium salt per day. I am in the process of tapering. I thought I was taking 125mg 8 times a day now of Tianeptine free acid (which would be 1 gram a day)....

But I was wrong! I've been using a different spoon to measure lately and just assumed each dose was 125mg based on how it looked. I measured it today, I'm actually only using 70mg doses 8 times a day. That's only 560mg per day.

I'm so happy. I've gotten so much farther in my taper than I thought. Ya! I've got to keep going. I know I can do this.

 

[morphine-dreams]

Has anyone else gotten a "toxic" feeling from this?

It's been months since I've tried it and it was definitely legit stuff, but it felt like a very, very mild and extremely dirty oxy high. I got very nauseated and dizzy at times (off about 100mg orally) and eventually straight-up dysphoric. It was definitely not an opioid OD as I had a hell of a tolerance at the time. Could it have been a TCA overdose, like taking too much amitryptiline, nortryptiline, etc? If so, that should be noteworthy for anyone with a tolerance to opioids planning to take a high dose.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Has anyone else gotten a "toxic" feeling from this?

It's been months since I've tried it and it was definitely legit stuff, but it felt like a very, very mild and extremely dirty oxy high. I got very nauseated and dizzy at times (off about 100mg orally) and eventually straight-up dysphoric. It was definitely not an opioid OD as I had a hell of a tolerance at the time. Could it have been a TCA overdose, like taking too much amitryptiline, nortryptiline, etc? If so, that should be noteworthy for anyone with a tolerance to opioids planning to take a high dose.

When I started taking Tianeptine, I had a low tolerance because I was clean for 2 years. My tolerance almost instantly rose but that was to be expected.

I found high doses to be a bit dysphoric too but not enough to deter me from abusing it.

I never noticed much in the way of any effects beyond opiate like effects. I did notice some mild nystagmus at oral doses around 200mg +.

I think high doses strain the liver. I would get sweaty and nauseous from high doses and it seemed like my skin would become more yellow (no yellow in the whites of the eyes). If I consumed too much sugar close to bed on nights I took too much Tianeptine, then I would wake up with what felt like an alcohol hangover the next morning.

Don't know what it all means but I'm glad I'm tapering off. Tapering sucks but am slowly starting to feel more human everyday, which is nice.

 

[morphine-dreams]

When I started taking Tianeptine, I had a low tolerance because I was clean for 2 years. My tolerance almost instantly rose but that was to be expected.

I found high doses to be a bit dysphoric too but not enough to deter me from abusing it.

I never noticed much in the way of any effects beyond opiate like effects. I did notice some mild nystagmus at oral doses around 200mg +.

I think high doses strain the liver. I would get sweaty and nauseous from high doses and it seemed like my skin would become more yellow (no yellow in the whites of the eyes). If I consumed too much sugar close to bed on nights I took too much Tianeptine, then I would wake up with what felt like an alcohol hangover the next morning.

Don't know what it all means but I'm glad I'm tapering off. Tapering sucks but am slowly starting to feel more human everyday, which is nice.

Hmm, I don't have liver problems (that I know of, at least...) but I react very badly to antidepressants in general so that's why I was thinking that. Good to know though. I have no interest in trying it again anyway, but it probably would've been smart to avoid it in the first place given my history with AD's (TCA's specifically too, I tried nortryptiline once and it did feel somewhat similar, the shitty aspects that is). I did get a hangover too though.

And good for you! That's exactly how I felt when I kicked the habit, finally human again. It's a good feeling, especially once the PAWS wears off this is kinda off-topic but once you're off the tianeptine, try using 5-HTP from time to time during PAWS, it really lifted my mood.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

this is kinda off-topic but once you're off the tianeptine, try using 5-HTP from time to time during PAWS, it really lifted my mood.

Thank you. I will try that. I have always suffered from depression. It seemed to be mostly nonexistent the entire time I've been on Tianeptine... So I am really worried my depression will come back something fierce when I do finally quit.

I'll try the 5-htp. I'll probably end up seeing a doctor and giving medication a try if it is really bad. Wellbutrin has worked for me in the past. Maybe it will again.

 

[morphine-dreams]

Have you ever been on a TCA? Maybe you could try one that doesn't have any opioid properties, if the effects of tianeptine were otherwise good. Then again, the emotional numbing is an AD symptom too. I was on mirtazapine while addicted to opioids and I quit both at the exact same time, so I couldn't tell you what was really worse. But yeah, I really like 5-HTP. I don't use it very often, but it does work. In PAWS, it'd just give me enough of a boost to get out of the house and go do stuff. Exercise helps tremendously too, I'm sure you've probably already heard that a million times but it's essential for me. Also, do you by any chance have ADD/ADHD? I'm asking because you mentioned Wellbutrin, and dopamine againsts are the only things that work for me. I've never tried Wellbutrin but ever since I started using adderall 3x a week I've had no depression whatsoever. It can totally be a symptom even though it's rarely discussed. When I run out of adderall for a week or two, I can feel the lack of motivation and depression coming back.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Have you ever been on a TCA? Maybe you could try one that doesn't have any opioid properties, if the effects of tianeptine were otherwise good. Then again, the emotional numbing is an AD symptom too. I was on mirtazapine while addicted to opioids and I quit both at the exact same time, so I couldn't tell you what was really worse. But yeah, I really like 5-HTP. I don't use it very often, but it does work. In PAWS, it'd just give me enough of a boost to get out of the house and go do stuff. Exercise helps tremendously too, I'm sure you've probably already heard that a million times but it's essential for me. Also, do you by any chance have ADD/ADHD? I'm asking because you mentioned Wellbutrin, and dopamine againsts are the only things that work for me. I've never tried Wellbutrin but ever since I started using adderall 3x a week I've had no depression whatsoever. It can totally be a symptom even though it's rarely discussed. When I run out of adderall for a week or two, I can feel the lack of motivation and depression coming back.

I don't believe I have add/ADHD. I did extremely well in school, I just seemed to be depressed all the time. When I was younger, my depression didn't keep me from doing things, ie I was still able to do really well in school.

But then I used opiates for like 8 years. I got over it with suboxone but my depression was worse than ever. For the first time in my life I had trouble getting out of bed, eating enough or even showering. Time didn't seem to help bring back my motivation.

Then I abused the hell out of mdpv. I finally quit that but I then had even less motivation. Even after a couple years I still don't seem to have fully recovered. I used wellbutrin for a short while and it helped immensely.

Then I tried kratom. I was cautious because of my previous opiate addiction. Small kratom doses alleviated depression and gave me energy to do things again. I used it sparingly for months without losing control or getting hooked.

That's when I tried Tianeptine. I thought I could use it sparingly like I had with kratom. The opioid effects I got from it hit too close to home... Things spiralled out of control quickly.

When I quit Tianeptine I hope to be able to use kratom again sparingly. I'm not holding my breath though. I realise I'm an addict and kratom may be too slippery of a slope for me.

Wellbutrin really helped but I only used it for a short while. I tried lexapro for two months but it didn't help at all. Those are the only two legitimate medications I've ever been prescribed. I have yet to try a TCA (besides Tianeptine of course, but I've heard it's TCA properties have been under scrutiny?) Maybe I should try one... Once I finish my taper, of course.

 

[morphine-dreams]

I don't believe I have add/ADHD. I did extremely well in school, I just seemed to be depressed all the time. When I was younger, my depression didn't keep me from doing things, ie I was still able to do really well in school.

But then I used opiates for like 8 years. I got over it with suboxone but my depression was worse than ever. For the first time in my life I had trouble getting out of bed, eating enough or even showering. Time didn't seem to help bring back my motivation.

Then I abused the hell out of mdpv. I finally quit that but I then had even less motivation. Even after a couple years I still don't seem to have fully recovered. I used wellbutrin for a short while and it helped immensely.

Then I tried kratom. I was cautious because of my previous opiate addiction. Small kratom doses alleviated depression and gave me energy to do things again. I used it sparingly for months without losing control or getting hooked.

That's when I tried Tianeptine. I thought I could use it sparingly like I had with kratom. The opioid effects I got from it hit too close to home... Things spiralled out of control quickly.

When I quit Tianeptine I hope to be able to use kratom again sparingly. I'm not holding my breath though. I realise I'm an addict and kratom may be too slippery of a slope for me.

Wellbutrin really helped but I only used it for a short while. I tried lexapro for two months but it didn't help at all. Those are the only two legitimate medications I've ever been prescribed. I have yet to try a TCA (besides Tianeptine of course, but I've heard it's TCA properties have been under scrutiny?) Maybe I should try one... Once I finish my taper, of course.

Ahh ok, I always bring that up because I used to get bouts of anxiety and depression that were very atypical and treatment-resistant. It all goes away (pretty long term) with adderall so it must have been a low dopamine thing, but no doctor has ever suggested that to me. I was the WORST student though, teachers despised me

I was a pretty bad addict (still have an insane perma-tolerance despite being pretty much clean since Feb/March) but it only lasted for 6 months for me, so your PAWS will probably be quite a bit worse than mine, but ride it out. I literally woke up one day feeling ok again. I still use kratom myself, not daily, but pretty frequently lately. My honest opinion is that it's mostly a slippery slope into falling back into kratom addiction, not opioid addiction in general. At least, that's how it is for me. I like my kratom but I have no desire to get back on the harder shit. If kratom really does help you, I'd stick with that over tianeptine. Yes, it's still trading an addiction for another addiction, but it's more like habitual weed smoking or coffee drinking imo. There's always the chance of that ban actually happening though :/ In any case, I feel like switching to kratom would at least be a lot better than tianeptine, especially in those moments where you're really craving an opioid. Addiction sucks but ultimately, it's good to do what truly works best for you and not to worry about labeling yourself. There's a huge difference between active psychological addiction and dependence anyway, in my opinion, and you clearly fall in the latter category because you're actively trying to get clean, so you're past the hardest step already, even if it doesn't feel that way yet.

I don't have any good experiences with TCAs personally, but they do work for a lot of people. Statistically, they're more effective than SSRIs but less than MAOIs iirc. AD's aren't really my area though because like I said, I've had nothing but bad experiences with them. Actually I can say one good thing about TCAs lol, they can be quite good at relieving nerve pain, at least mild nerve pain.

Btw, where'd you hear about tianeptine's TCA properties being under scrutiny? I'm curious because I've always wondered that myself. If it's active on the MORs at doses that are pretty low relative to the AD dose, idk it's just logical that much of the "antidepressant" effect is really just mild opioid euphoria. I mean, it could also easily be both working in tandem, it's just something I've always wondered about myself. It's clearly fairly strong as an opioid too if we could both feel the effect even as addicts. I'm too tolerant for stuff like hydrocodone and codeine to feel much effect at all.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Ahh ok, I always bring that up because I used to get bouts of anxiety and depression that were very atypical and treatment-resistant. It all goes away (pretty long term) with adderall so it must have been a low dopamine thing, but no doctor has ever suggested that to me. I was the WORST student though, teachers despised me

I was a pretty bad addict (still have an insane perma-tolerance despite being pretty much clean since Feb/March) but it only lasted for 6 months for me, so your PAWS will probably be quite a bit worse than mine, but ride it out. I literally woke up one day feeling ok again. I still use kratom myself, not daily, but pretty frequently lately. My honest opinion is that it's mostly a slippery slope into falling back into kratom addiction, not opioid addiction in general. At least, that's how it is for me. I like my kratom but I have no desire to get back on the harder shit. If kratom really does help you, I'd stick with that over tianeptine. Yes, it's still trading an addiction for another addiction, but it's more like habitual weed smoking or coffee drinking imo. There's always the chance of that ban actually happening though :/ In any case, I feel like switching to kratom would at least be a lot better than tianeptine, especially in those moments where you're really craving an opioid. Addiction sucks but ultimately, it's good to do what truly works best for you and not to worry about labeling yourself. There's a huge difference between active psychological addiction and dependence anyway, in my opinion, and you clearly fall in the latter category because you're actively trying to get clean, so you're past the hardest step already, even if it doesn't feel that way yet.

I don't have any good experiences with TCAs personally, but they do work for a lot of people. Statistically, they're more effective than SSRIs but less than MAOIs iirc. AD's aren't really my area though because like I said, I've had nothing but bad experiences with them. Actually I can say one good thing about TCAs lol, they can be quite good at relieving nerve pain, at least mild nerve pain.

Btw, where'd you hear about tianeptine's TCA properties being under scrutiny? I'm curious because I've always wondered that myself. If it's active on the MORs at doses that are pretty low relative to the AD dose, idk it's just logical that much of the "antidepressant" effect is really just mild opioid euphoria. I mean, it could also easily be both working in tandem, it's just something I've always wondered about myself. It's clearly fairly strong as an opioid too if we could both feel the effect even as addicts. I'm too tolerant for stuff like hydrocodone and codeine to feel much effect at all.

I actually plan on switching to kratom soon but I want to taper lower first. Currently it takes 10+ grams for me to feel much from kratom. I'm hoping if I taper further then I will be able to get by on less kratom.

I have a small stash of kratom that I can use as my final taper. If it gets banned, atleast I have enough to soften the blow. If it doesn't get banned, I may actually consider maintaining on it for awhile... Or atleast doing a very slow taper. I've had the most success the times I tapered the slowest.

Ultimately my goal is to get off Tianeptine. Soon. It seems to work great as an antidepressant for me but unfortunately I find myself redosing far too often. I could feel a rush from large oral doses when they kicked in, and I often found myself chasing this rush even when the side effects started to become annoying.

As far as me hearing that Tianeptine may not actually be a TCA: I dont know. I read it once somewhere on the internet but, honestly, it was probably wild speculation. I remember reading that they thought ALL of Tianeptine antidepressant effects were due to its MOR activity and that it was not a TCA. Most likely this was just some dudes guesswork and isn't true... I can't seem to find it now. It is manufactured and sold by pharmaceutical companies in other countries and it is touted as atypical antidepressant... Who knows, it wouldn't be the first time a pharm company misrepresented something for profit, but I have honestly no idea how likely that is in this case.

 

[Nether Animal]

Been on this since late September since I kicked dope. Overall a mixed bag but mostly positive. I probably take 500mg or so a day, and I still feel the effects like before. I think the key is not getting greedy and constantly upping the dose you take at a time. Taking it more often is one thing, but I always take one scoop of the same size.

That said, I was stuck without it for ~14 hours or so last Wednesday and the withdrawal ain't fun. I had three and only three symptoms, all 10+ magnitude like with heavy heroin detox: Restless legs, Hot flashes and a splitting migraine headache.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

I've been tapering my usage of this stuff. Was using 3-4g per day of Tianeptine sodium salt before I started tapering. I'm now down to about 300-400mg of Tianeptine free acid per day... About a tenth of what I was using before.

Things are getting rough for me. I spend most of the day just on the edge of withdrawal. My body aches, my nose and eyes run and my nerves are wrecked. But I'm trying to stay positive, focusing on feeling good about the progress I've made so far helps.

Even at this level of use the withdrawals are nothing to sneeze at. I let myself go for 24hrs over the weekend and what hit me was no walk in the park. Much much better than what the withdrawals from 3g a day felt like... They were downright scary in intensity at that level.

For anyone using this stuff at more than a gram a day (or higher, Reddit has people claiming 10g a day!). Do yourself a favor and try to keep atleast 2 to 3 months worth on hand at all times. You never know when this stuff will disappear for good. You want to make sure you have enough to taper with, or atleast have a plan in place. I cannot describe the utter hell I felt trying to withdrawal from 3g a day... And I've been around the block, I've successfully withdrawal from codiene, tramadol, oxycontin, poppy tea (each at separate times). Tianeptine withdrawals, from high doses, are downright awful. I don't know what iv herion withdrawals are like exactly, but I bet it must be similar in intensity.

 

[mike.vick]

I've been tapering my usage of this stuff. Was using 3-4g per day of Tianeptine sodium salt before I started tapering. I'm now down to about 300-400mg of Tianeptine free acid per day... About a tenth of what I was using before.

Things are getting rough for me. I spend most of the day just on the edge of withdrawal. My body aches, my nose and eyes run and my nerves are wrecked. But I'm trying to stay positive, focusing on feeling good about the progress I've made so far helps.

Even at this level of use the withdrawals are nothing to sneeze at. I let myself go for 24hrs over the weekend and what hit me was no walk in the park. Much much better than what the withdrawals from 3g a day felt like... They were downright scary in intensity at that level.

For anyone using this stuff at more than a gram a day (or higher, Reddit has people claiming 10g a day!). Do yourself a favor and try to keep atleast 2 to 3 months worth on hand at all times. You never know when this stuff will disappear for good. You want to make sure you have enough to taper with, or atleast have a plan in place. I cannot describe the utter hell I felt trying to withdrawal from 3g a day... And I've been around the block, I've successfully withdrawal from codiene, tramadol, oxycontin, poppy tea (each at separate times). Tianeptine withdrawals, from high doses, are downright awful. I don't know what iv herion withdrawals are like exactly, but I bet it must be similar in intensity.

At 3-4 gs per day, could you feel any organ pain?

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

At 3-4 gs per day, could you feel any organ pain?

Not while taking 3-4g per day, no. I was fairly numb to pain for the most part.

As I started to taper, I began experiencing soreness in my left kidney. I thought I had damaged something and had just been oblivious to the pain until I had tapered lower. A week later I passed two kidney stones. My left kidney hurt for two more weeks... I'm almost 100 percent sure all pain was related to the stones... Not the drugs.

I did think my liver might be struggling. I noticed yellowing of the skin at high doses. No yellowing of the whites of the eyes nor any changes to urine so I'm not positive of this... Just a hunch really

 

[mike.vick]

^^^^ mmm thanks

 

[Nether Animal]

i do probably 1-1.5 grams daily. And yes, I need to taper down because you never know when the sites will just stop carrying it or disappear altogether. It's a house of cards for sure, but some days I dose around 3pm, and wake up the next morning around like 6am feeling only slightly off. Other days I dose at 10am when I get up, and by 2pm I am feeling pretty shitty. It's weird how the withdrawal symptoms aren't linear. Plus if i take a nap during the day it "resets" the withdrawal and I wake up sick no matter what.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

i do probably 1-1.5 grams daily. And yes, I need to taper down because you never know when the sites will just stop carrying it or disappear altogether. It's a house of cards for sure, but some days I dose around 3pm, and wake up the next morning around like 6am feeling only slightly off. Other days I dose at 10am when I get up, and by 2pm I am feeling pretty shitty. It's weird how the withdrawal symptoms aren't linear. Plus if i take a nap during the day it "resets" the withdrawal and I wake up sick no matter what.

Do yourself a favor and stick to only dosing once or twice a day.

If you start taking it around the clock then you will find yourself needing to redose frequently. Every 1.5hrs with small doses, every 3 hours with medium doses and like every 5/6 hours with larger doses... Atleast in my experience.

It's strange you mention the "reset" occurring after a midday nap. Currently I'm taking as small of as dose as possible every 3 hours. For the most part I am only in slight withdrawal before each dose.

I sleep at night fine but wake up every 3 hours to dose.

However, if I fall asleep in the afternoon then I always wake up in pretty serious withdrawal. It's strange. I can dose, sleep for an hour or two, then wake up seriously withdrawaling even though it hasn't been 3 hours yet. It's strange and very annoying.

 

[ThePredecessor]

Wow this stuff is great at 200mg, but sadly it's so short lived and the urge to redose is unbelievable.