Opioids Kratom: whats going on?!

[phillycheese93]

Hi everyone :D

So I've been using kratom for about 3 weeks daily. Starting off with Maeng Da at noon for studying (1 tablespoon) and Bali at night for sleep (1 tablespoon) with on and off increasing dosages. The kratom was working amazingly well until about two weeks, and that's when strange things started happening.

At the beginning of the third week, I went to sleep at my normal time (10:30) and then I would wake up at 3 in the morning with a TERRIBLE aching stomach, waking up sweaty, and then not being able to fall asleep for the rest of the night. I remember the stomach pain was so bad I was literally crawling from my bead to reach for some heroin residue on my scale, scrap it off, and do a shot to feel better (not actively using heroin, just remembered my scale had some residue on it).

At first I thought it the insomnia was due to the Maeng Da (more stimulating) and the stomach pain was due to bad quality kratom, so I sought out for a high quality vendor, exclusively acquiring sedating strains: Premium Bali and Red Vein Kali, increasing the dosages as well. But the same results happened: waking up at 3 in the morning, sweating, and horrible stomach pains.

So now I'm wondering, what could be the result of these nightly symptoms. I feel like it's withdrawal symptoms from the kratom wearing off at night. So could the half life of kratom be so short that it makes me wakes me up in withdrawal? Or is because maybe because my body is having some sort of bad reaction to the drug?

What do you guys think? I'm completely baffled. But if it is withdrawals, what should I do? I can't do this any longer and wouldn't mind switching to suboxone until I graduate in two months from my university, as I certainly do not want to go back to using dope.

I appreciate anyones input on this thread, as this is something that is decreasing the quality of my life.

Thanks all

 

[Zerwas]

I feel like it's withdrawal symptoms from the kratom wearing off at night. So could the half life of kratom be so short that it makes me wakes me up in withdrawal?

Yes, these are the typical Kratom WD-symptoms. Mitragynin the active ingredient causing the opioid like effects has a relatively short half-life. I also woke up with night sweats and insomnia when I was taking Kratom twice a day after Buprenorphine WDs.
Do yourself a favor and do not switch to Bupre, that is shooting with cannons on birds (or how you say^^). Suboxone is much more potent and much harder to kick. That would be going from a ~2/10 to a ~7/10 regarding opiate dependency (I just made that scale up to show a comparison).
Just taper it off, get yourself something to sleep, Loperamide and maybe some Gabapentin and the WDs should be annoying but manageable.

Good luck!

 

[when I dream]

It could be withdrawal, kratom does have a relatively short half-life, but to be honest I think it's possible that it's something else. I have a pretty heavy habit (~30 grams/day) and I can go about 18 hours from my last dose before I even start to feel any withdrawal symptoms. Now, everyone is different obviously and you didn't say how long after your last dose these symptoms appear, but if you are taking a dose at 10pm and then waking up 5 hours later in full blown "withdrawal" it seems possible that it may be a bad reaction or something because 5 hours just seems like too short of time to go from being high to withdrawal.

 

[falsifiedhypothesi]

how much is 1 tablespoon in ounces? I was doing 5-10 grams a day of good quality Bali for two months then went cold turkey with no symptoms. Maybe your dose is too high for the Bali, if I have too much kratom I can end up feeling like total shit, nausea, sweating, and having a really hard time sleeping. Are you waiting for the last dose to fully kick in before you go to sleep? if not it could be that the initial comeup of the second dose puts you to sleep but once you get the full effects it is too much for your body.

 

[f33lg00d]

Its withdrawal

 

[Solipsis]

^ Sure it is, but I think reactions like this can vary between strains - I experienced that when I used different strains that came together in an order. One of the strains did a number on my GI tract but was otherwise very nice, and the other one left my GI tract alone but caused some degree of acute withdrawal type effects. There was an abrupt switch in those effects when I switched strains (Sumatra Red Vein and Borneo Red Vein respectively).
Must be because of the very complex and rich contents of actives that can vary a lot.

Similarly there are some benzo's, especially with sub-milligram potency, that can produce acute withdrawal upon coming down. I believe this is related to tachyphylaxis, but I don't really understand the specific mechanism behind it.
With opioids some ultra-potent ones can also show unusual effects related to probably a very similar mechanism, just like NBOMe drugs can produce effects usually related to chronic overuse of psychedelics, but on much much shorter term. Something is just sped way way up there.