Bluelight

Thread: Testicular shrinkage from TRT, are there alternatives to hcg?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32
  1. Collapse Details
    Testicular shrinkage from TRT, are there alternatives to hcg? 
    #1
    Hi, I'm on TRT. Now my balls are shrinking big time. My silly endo thinks this is no problem. I'm basically on my own. Now I want to consider my options. I heard about hcg injections. Are there other alternatives to hcg which also raise LH and prevent shrinkage or is hcg the safest option? Clomid, as far as I know, is said to have a lot of side effects. Since I'm also on antidepressants I needed something which doesn't have a lot of drug interactions.
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #2
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Serotonin101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    STL
    Posts
    5,358
    What's wrong with small testes? I don't see an issue honestly. Smaller targets to be hit so less likely to be injured lol
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #3
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    trozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Pube central, Australia
    Posts
    3,821
    Exacly as Serotonin said, in our opinions. It's only aesthetic, as regardless thanks to the exogenous test you've got coming into your body, your testes are going to be somewhat inactive due to shutdown, and therefore shrink. It's not like it's permanent (well, depending on whether you're on test or not I guess).
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #4
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Serotonin101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    STL
    Posts
    5,358
    You want to see some real shrinkage blast some 19nors lol. Tren and trest made mine raisins
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #5
    But does the shrinkage ever stop? I mean what if they get smaller and smaller and smaller? I mean at some point I have to do something! Already now my sac is tight all the time and I can hardly even feel my testicles! It also looks really stupid. What also sucks is that I do not really feel better under TRT even though my serum T is high and my E2 is also normal. I was expecting to feel really good or be super horny but I'm not. Is this normal?
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #6
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    trozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Pube central, Australia
    Posts
    3,821
    I've noticed minor shrinkage at times which has seemingly returned to 'normal' (well, as normal as you'll get cruising). Have noticed size fluctuations over only a couple of days.

    Don't stress. It's not like they've died and are rotting away lol
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #7
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Serotonin101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    STL
    Posts
    5,358
    Lol trt is to make you feel normal. Don't expect too much from it. And no, your nads won't just continue to shrink.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #8
    I have been on T gel since May. The gel already caused shrinkage. But since starting injections in October they have shrunk even more!
    Injections seem to cause more shrinkage than gels probably because when you use gel you have your T levels go up and down during 24 hours.
    But when you use injections the T levels stay high for much longer. In my last lab test my LH was 0,1!
    Does the shrinkage in the testicles affect all testicle cells or are there cells which cannot shrink? Cause if all cells can shrink then the shrinkage could theoretically
    go on forever.

    I also read testimonies of people who got on TRT and who said that it was a night and day difference. This is frustrating cause for me it's nowhere that dramatic.
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #9
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    trozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Pube central, Australia
    Posts
    3,821
    Honestly, what's your concern? Like bottom line, why does it bother you? Is it an embarrassment thing? I'm sincerely curious
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #10
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Serotonin101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    STL
    Posts
    5,358
    I like my small balls. They're easier to play with. Who needs the fuckers really. They don't do anything for me or the girl I'm with, so no biggie if I'm missing some circumference lol
    Reply With Quote
     

  11. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    trozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Pube central, Australia
    Posts
    3,821
    haha once or twice I've noticed they'd randomly shrunk to a size that just made me think "what the fuck have these things even become?!" if I touched them :O

    didn't last very long, hence why I'm not personally concerned.
    Reply With Quote
     

  12. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    I think chicks like big balls.

    Also, when you have big balls and they hang deep then they also slap against the chick's junk, which adds extra stimulation. I think that big, low hanging balls are definitely an advantage.
    Imagine you had balls implants which weigh like 50 grams a piece. I bet this would hit her pretty hard lol.

    What I also don't like about my balls is that as soon as I start to masturbate the scrotum usually immediately starts to get tight. Why is that? In porn the guys usually have totally low hanging balls
    and they don't get tight.
    Reply With Quote
     

  13. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Bluelight Crew nolys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    I'm asking the fucking questions!
    Posts
    3,583
    Chick's deffo like big balls Southpark said so when randy gavehhimself testicular cancer...

    Jk it makes your dick look bigger anyway
    Reply With Quote
     

  14. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    I don't know about you, but when my scrotum is all pulled up then it looks like I have no balls at all!
    I doubt that any chick likes this look.
    Reply With Quote
     

  15. Collapse Details
     
    #15
    Moderator
    Psychedelic Drugs
    trozzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Pube central, Australia
    Posts
    3,821
    Fair points does make sense
    Reply With Quote
     

  16. Collapse Details
     
    #16
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Genetic Freak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,246
    Quote Originally Posted by sacsky View Post
    Hi, I'm on TRT. Now my balls are shrinking big time. My silly endo thinks this is no problem. I'm basically on my own. Now I want to consider my options. I heard about hcg injections. Are there other alternatives to hcg which also raise LH and prevent shrinkage or is hcg the safest option? Clomid, as far as I know, is said to have a lot of side effects. Since I'm also on antidepressants I needed something which doesn't have a lot of drug interactions.
    Testicular atrophy is unfortunately a part or TRT, so you kinda have to get used to it.. Either that or you come off the TRT, if esthetics displease you..!!

    hCG could be an option to increase size, I don't believe a GP would prescribe permanently for esthetic reasons, but there are some health benefits to hCG treatment, you might have to speak with him...

    Out of interest, how much testosterone are you receiving each week..? Also what medications are you currently on...
    Reply With Quote
     

  17. Collapse Details
     
    #17
    I get 250mg T ester every 2-3 weeks. It's suboptimal but this is standard procedure where I live. My endo won't do anything which is not in the book.
    The thing is that I don't notice the T peak after a few days. I don't understand this. When my T is really high then why don't I feel really good or horny?
    I had my E2 checked and this is not the problem. My E2 is more or less unchanged around 25.
    I could also try nebido but nebido has a bad rep. I don't want it.

    I'm also on cymbalta for depression but only started 1 week ago.

    I could try to simply administer hcg on my own but I also worry about needing an extra AI if E2 goes up.
    I also read there are no long term safety studies with hcg. What if this is dangerous when you take it for years and years?
    Reply With Quote
     

  18. Collapse Details
     
    #18
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Genetic Freak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,246
    Quote Originally Posted by sacsky View Post
    I get 250mg T ester every 2-3 weeks. It's suboptimal but this is standard procedure where I live. My endo won't do anything which is not in the book.
    The thing is that I don't notice the T peak after a few days. I don't understand this. When my T is really high then why don't I feel really good or horny?
    I had my E2 checked and this is not the problem. My E2 is more or less unchanged around 25.
    I could also try nebido but nebido has a bad rep. I don't want it.

    I'm also on cymbalta for depression but only started 1 week ago.

    I could try to simply administer hcg on my own but I also worry about needing an extra AI if E2 goes up.
    I also read there are no long term safety studies with hcg. What if this is dangerous when you take it for years and years?
    2-3 weeks is bordering on unacceptable for TRT.... I can only surmise the ester is enanthate or cypionate, in which case the half-life will be somewhere between 4-6 days, that means after 4-6 days half the amount of compound should have been released into the bloodstream...

    250mg of injectable is NOT all testosterone some of that weight is the ester, therefore your 250mg should be about 162-167mg of actual testosterone...

    Therefore half of about 165mg + 82mg in the first 4-6 days, in the next 4-6 days 41mg, 20mg, 10mg and so on.... only 72% of that total is bioavailable, so the end amount is much less.....

    As you can see, the dosing schedule is NOT optimal for your needs.... 100-150mg every 5-6 days might be a better protocol to keep your blood levels more stable and to take account of the compounded half-lives from the previous injections still in your blood....

    cymbalta might best be only used short term, you don't want to become reliant on SNRI's....

    You might speak with your endo about shortening the injection frequency with a reduced dose, or maybe injecting yourself more often with testosterone via other avenues...!!

    What does your endo say about hCG intermittent dosing..?
    Reply With Quote
     

  19. Collapse Details
     
    #19
    Hi,
    my endo is absolutely conservative. He does not use hcg and also doesn't do anything out of the book, this means no self-injections and also no other injection protocols!

    Basically the best I can do is get my injection every 20 days and then probably add some extra T gel during the last few days.
    I had my T levels measured after 2 weeks and I was at 13nmol. This is still more than my "normal" T levels. They were usually between 8-12 nmol.
    I am waiting for my latest test results. They will tell me how low my T level is after 3 weeks. If it's very low I could try to get injections more frequent, maybe
    every 15 days. But my endo already said that 3 weeks is fine.

    Can you tell me what I should expect? I mean I'm pretty damn skinny. Should I expect to become more muscular simply from TRT or will this not change much?
    I notice more frequent erections but I'm in no way horny. I also notice no changes in body hair.

    I need no short term antidepressant. I need something which keeps me stable at least 1 year!
    I have already tried many ADs and nothing works! I am becoming desperate.
    There are days where I am so depressed that it's really scary. Basically the only AD class I haven't tried yet are MAOI and they
    are also very scary because of the food and drug interactions.
    Reply With Quote
     

  20. Collapse Details
     
    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by sacsky View Post
    Hi,
    my endo is absolutely conservative. He does not use hcg and also doesn't do anything out of the book, this means no self-injections and also no other injection protocols!

    Basically the best I can do is get my injection every 20 days and then probably add some extra T gel during the last few days.
    I had my T levels measured after 2 weeks and I was at 13nmol. This is still more than my "normal" T levels. They were usually between 8-12 nmol.
    I am waiting for my latest test results. They will tell me how low my T level is after 3 weeks. If it's very low I could try to get injections more frequent, maybe
    every 15 days. But my endo already said that 3 weeks is fine.

    Can you tell me what I should expect? I mean I'm pretty damn skinny. Should I expect to become more muscular simply from TRT or will this not change much?
    I notice more frequent erections but I'm in no way horny. I also notice no changes in body hair.

    I need no short term antidepressant. I need something which keeps me stable at least 1 year!
    I have already tried many ADs and nothing works! I am becoming desperate.
    There are days where I am so depressed that it's really scary. Basically the only AD class I haven't tried yet are MAOI and they
    are also very scary because of the food and drug interactions.

    I'm sorry but your endo is a fuckwit.. He needs a lesson on testosterone esters, half-lives, and injection site bioavailability..

    3 weeks is NOT fine, I was reading guidelines to TRT injection protocol advised to endocrinologists only yesterday, no way did they advise 3 weeks.. (I'm at work now, when I get home I'll dig out the papers)..!!

    I suggest you find yourself another Endo...

    You don't need anti-depressants, once you sort out stable plasma test levels you will be fine..

    Don't touch MAOI's...
    Reply With Quote
     

  21. Collapse Details
     
    #21
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Serotonin101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    STL
    Posts
    5,358
    Unless he's doing nebido (which he's not) there is no way once every three weeks, hell once every two weeks won't cut it. Once a week minimum in my book. We need ped using athletes as endos, and we'd be set.
    Reply With Quote
     

  22. Collapse Details
     
    #22
    Hello,
    I'm in Europe. And here 250mg T Enantate every 3 weeks is standard. Even the leaflet says every 3 weeks and that in case necessary it can be reduced to every 2 weeks.
    And then there is Nebido every 12 weeks but that's about it. No endo here uses AIs or HCG. It's like in the fucking middleages here.

    There really is no sense in arguing with my endo. I already tried that.

    I have also been to urologists. They have even less of a clue. One urologist offered me T gel as a one time "loading" cycle. He said many of his patients never need any more TRT after loading
    up on it. Can you believe that!? And this guy was a doctor.

    But if my T levels during the 3 weeks are still higher than my naturally low T levels then isn't this still better than nothing even if the T levels fluctuate?

    Basically after 1 week I am at the top of the normal range, after 2 weeks I'm in the middle and I assume after 3 weeks I'm probably below normal.
    But if I for example start applying gel during the last few days then I could prevent my levels from falling too low before the next injection.
    Reply With Quote
     

  23. Collapse Details
     
    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sacsky View Post
    Hello,
    I'm in Europe. And here 250mg T Enantate every 3 weeks is standard. Even the leaflet says every 3 weeks and that in case necessary it can be reduced to every 2 weeks.
    And then there is Nebido every 12 weeks but that's about it. No endo here uses AIs or HCG. It's like in the fucking middleages here.

    There really is no sense in arguing with my endo. I already tried that.

    I have also been to urologists. They have even less of a clue. One urologist offered me T gel as a one time "loading" cycle. He said many of his patients never need any more TRT after loading
    up on it. Can you believe that!? And this guy was a doctor.

    But if my T levels during the 3 weeks are still higher than my naturally low T levels then isn't this still better than nothing even if the T levels fluctuate?

    Basically after 1 week I am at the top of the normal range, after 2 weeks I'm in the middle and I assume after 3 weeks I'm probably below normal.
    But if I for example start applying gel during the last few days then I could prevent my levels from falling too low before the next injection.

    We undertook private research with Med-School post-grads on testosterone esters a number of years back, I can assure you 250mg E3rd week is NOT the best option for you..!!.... Its more about keeping you out of the doctors surgery for as long as possible.. (he doesn't want you cluttering up his practice twice a week for low-dose injections when he can pin you one large dose every 3 weeks)...

    It might be an option to self administer test-gel at the beginning of the second week every day, early morning, and maybe mid afternoon... until next injection...

    Don't use it before any blood tests....lol
    Reply With Quote
     

  24. Collapse Details
     
    #24
    I don't think it's about him not wanting me in his practice too often. It's simply that he doesn't do anything extraordinary.
    I asked him about self-injecting every few days and he said this is too risky cause he gets trouble if I do something wrong. He also said if you inject smaller doses then the kinetic is different and so on.
    It also says on the vials which I get that the testosterone has to be used immediately after opening! This would be another issue. If you can't store it then it would be too expensive.

    What sucks about the gels is that they raise my dht very high which causes hair loss and also isn't healthy for the prostate. That's why I wanted to get off the gels.
    Reply With Quote
     

  25. Collapse Details
     
    #25
    Moderator
    Performance Enhancing Drugs
    Genetic Freak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    2,246
    Quote Originally Posted by sacsky View Post
    I don't think it's about him not wanting me in his practice too often. It's simply that he doesn't do anything extraordinary.
    I asked him about self-injecting every few days and he said this is too risky cause he gets trouble if I do something wrong. He also said if you inject smaller doses then the kinetic is different and so on.
    It also says on the vials which I get that the testosterone has to be used immediately after opening! This would be another issue. If you can't store it then it would be too expensive.

    What sucks about the gels is that they raise my dht very high which causes hair loss and also isn't healthy for the prostate. That's why I wanted to get off the gels.
    Did u have blood tests that showed DHT above normal range..?

    Tell your endo to get depo-test cypionate 200mg/ml in 10ml multi-use vials, and pin u more often, tell him not to worry about pharmacokinetics....

    Yeh... Your endo kinda sucks...!!!
    Reply With Quote
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •