Alcohol and Amphetamines

[jagged-wire]

I'm worried, really worried. First I'll give you a background. My dog is 28 y.o. and is studying for a PhD in Computer Engineering.

My dog made it through all the years of school (working and school part-time) up until my senior year when my dog was forced to work 30hrs/week and take 18 credit hours.

My dog began abusing Vyvanse, Pure-Dextroamphetamines, Ritalin and my dog had a collection of every supplement known to man.

I was doing great, I even found time to work-out and lose tons of weight.

However, my dog would have bad come-downs that I would try to taper-down with more vyvanse/dextro and finally he would take 25-30mg of Valium just to sleep.

I gave speeches, and recieved A+s on things I don't even remember! I was riding a wave

I was up once for over 72hrs straight (not for fun because I HAD TO). I was hallucinating and paranoid of everything.

I was having episodes of "Charlie Sheen", I couldn't lose, everything made sense.

I vowed after I graduated I would never do these again. So my dog stopped, for awhile... but the stress of work and getting a DUI brought my dog back back.

My dog is now in my second semester of grad school. He is still using vyvanse (only) in moderation. However, the comedowns are worse than he remembers.

For some reason the urge to drink alcohol has become very strong and effective at removing the comedowns. My dog doesn't need any alcohol until the 6hr mark and then the 8-10hr mark.

6Hrs after taking it, unless I can withhold, I'll grab any liquor I can find like an alcoholic.

My dog has NEVER blacked out after 2 drinks (I don't know where that myth got started), not even close but my tolerance for booze is slightly higher (only slightly).

My dog has never had a problem with alcohol before, maybe a 'mild one' after his DUI.

It has now been probably 9 months of repeating this. Take vyvanse, take more vyvanse, drink 750ml of Vodka, get up, go to class. My dogs grades have suffered from this but not quantifiable...

I am writing this because after my dog has been a long term user/abuser. I am scared for his mental health.

Things don't seem right, brain is always fuzzy (alcohol or no), vyvanse is now a REQUIREMENT for studying instead of a "superhero power" like before.

The alcohol+vyvanse over the long term is causing my dog to have rapid, tri-polar type, mood swings. From helpless, to anger to depression to extreme paranoia to hiding under his covers.

My dog can cold turkey but then he just sleeps or watches TV all day, it seems without alcohol or Javanese he is useless.

I wrote this article for LONG TERM effects and I am curious if something has not permanently changed in my dogs brain.

This is NOT for occasional party goers. My dog has snorted plenty of lines of Ritalin, been the life of the party and drank all night, felt fine.

Does anyone have experience with LONG TERM usage of what I am describing?

Please help my dog he fears he will not be able to get his PhD.

 

[itsonlyme123]

Awww poor doggy just needs a tummy rub.

 

[ebola?]

It has now been probably 9 months of repeating this. Take vyvanse, take more vyvanse, drink 750ml of Vodka, get up, go to class.

Shit. Are you drinking a fifth a day? You are highly likely to have a severe physical dependence to alcohol that is causing dramatic neural disregulation when you're not drunk. In the long-term, this is likely to manifest in overt neurotoxicity, but I doubt you've caused permanent damage YET. I would suggest seeking professional assistance in detoxing from alcohol.

Also...that was sort of amusing, alternating between talking about yourself in first and third person, but we don't allow SWIMming or any similar techniques here, as they're usually annoying and afford you absolutely no legal protection.

ebola

 

[MissBehavin'_416]

I didn't actually read all of that, but a day in the park is probably all he needs. Some dog!

 

[blahman8000]

Don't bother with any "my dog" or "SWIM" stuff here. No one is judging you and that's not what's going to get you into trouble.

What will get you into trouble is mixing uppers and downers (amps and alcohol), especially daily. Trust me, I've been on that trip. I was all over the place. I was popping Adderall like it was my job, and doing lines of it. I picked up a bottle if it got too intense. Well really, I just picked up the bottle whenever I could. I'm sure the comedowns are horrendous, and there will come times when you're not only coming down, but you don't have any booze to chill out with. Eventually the amps stop delivering that euphoria that it used to in the beginning, and if you keep chasing it, you'll find yourself up for days without eating, drink or no drink. Roughly the third day is usually when amphetamine psychosis sinks in. That's when you start seeing stationary things move in your peripheral vision, or see faint silhouettes of figures walking around in the reflection of your TV. You're setting yourself up for a very dangerous combo of alcohol withdrawal coupled with a stimulant comedown. I've had withdrawals from alcohol and if I so much as have a caffeinated soda, it's even worse.

A lot of people will just keep dosing to put off the comedown, which only makes the inevitable that much worse. And if you're seriously putting away 750ml of vodka before class, you're not doing your education any favors. My suggestion is to take a few days off from class, just call in sick (because right now you are), keep in touch with your professor, and get off the Vyvanse. At least for now. It's not lost on me that that's incredibly difficult, but it's not deadly. It is very depressing and exhausting, but worth it. The effect of Vyvanse is more pronounced for a much longer time than alcohol lasts. You're burning yourself out in the worst way right now. Nobody, NOBODY, can keep up that pace with the chemicals you're ingesting. They're not helping at all anymore, they're hindering you.

Like ebola said, I think you can escape permanent damage for now. Dead brain cells are dead, they're done, but I've read into the brain rewiring and developing new neural pathways to retain function after abstinence and time. It's just a matter of doing the right thing for your body and taking care of yourself. One thing's for sure: your brain is exhausted. Give yourself a break. If you find yourself having symptoms of alcohol withdrawal, you should consider going to a detox facility and/or a hospital. It's no joke, trust me.

 

[tocooperate]

I am a long term Adderall abuser as well, and while I can say that I have conquered the debilitating depressive episodes that come with a 2 week on 2 week off cycle, am truly a depressed individual who hides it well enough to maintain a good job with lots of potential. I lost my gf to this a couple of years ago, I am to this day trying to win her back (this has potential as well, ithink I'm close)

you may still have a chance of getting back to a somewhat therapeutic dosage but not if you don't handle the booze quick. there are plenty of us that still need the pills , I'm text book ADD in fact but once you lose respect for the medication, it's hard to ever go back. I've seen my best friend go down the path of the bottle, exactly your situation. don't do it.

 

[jagged-wire]

Thank you guys so much for your insight. I am half-way to my PhD in Computer Engineering as of now. This semester has been a lot easier than the previous one but even still I think I may drop-out. I have slowly been weening myself off the alcohol and I'm down to only a couple of drinks a night. I've begun working out again, which has helped tremendously. I biked for 7 hours the other day just to cope with the recent breakup with my girlfriend (funny you should mention that) and I have been trying to win her back. I believe the over-stress coupled with the amphetamines was inducing the large consumptions of alcohol, as I had no way to "clear my mind" for new information.

The downside is that I am cycling on and off the Vyvanse, I wont take it over the weekends, and I start feeling very depressed but I do it so I can store more the weekdays. So what I have reduced in alcohol I have now made up for with even more amps. Today I took over 140mg and felt like god for only short while. I am still recovering from the "jitters". I have been trying to keep away from the alcohol and using Valium to overcome the end-of-day jitters. However, my tolerance appears to be extremely high and I have been prescribed the maximum legal dosage (180 pills @ 10mg). Even after 80mg or more, I can hardly feel the benzos.

I can't explain what is going on. When I began taking vyvanse I felt like the king of the world and accomplished extraordinary things (almost impossible things). Now I've become dependent on it to even get out of bed. Even though I save for the weekdays, on the weekends I will still pour out a good 30mg just to get myself out of my bed... I also have massive social anxiety that I can't seem to deal with. I am terrified of people unless I am on some kind of amp (although I've always had social anxiety problems), but now it's more like acrophobia.

I fear I may never recover from this point and I will be dependent on this crap the rest of my life to function.

Any thoughts are appreciated, possibly and alternative medicine maybe?

 

[tocooperate]

The drugs are messing you up man, as you know. Adding more drugs/meds isn't going to help, trust me on that. Detox from amps isn't all that bad, it least it wasn't for me. Did the whole benzo and adderall thing and it almost destroyed me. Please try and get some professional help before things get much worse.

That's mostly your addiction telling you that you need amps to function. I used to think I needed adderall to work or go to school but honestly I feel much better off of it and I think that you will too. It seems scary but it's easier than you think. Be careful though with the benzos and alcohol. That stuff sends me into a downward spiral faster than anything. Detoxing from both isn't safe and you should be supervised.

Have you ever considered iboga or ayahuasca?

this.

that feeling of dependence is the psychological addiction but also a sign of severe abuse relative to what your body and mind know you need. I know cause i was there 2 years ago, same situation basically dropped out, severe depression and I thought I had abused to the point of no return. I was gonna need this now for the rest of my life..

it's not true. while I have relapsed myself, I am on basically 2 weeks with adderall two weeks off and the off weeks I'm still functional. sure I'm tired and cranky but if I had the righ reasons I know now it's easily doable to get clean or at least to a therapeutic dosage.

the alcohol and other stuff needs to stop first though. can't stress this enough, they will draw from your amphetamine dependence which will feel much worse than it should be, as jammin said amp withdrawal is not as miserable as drugs with physical withdrawal on top of the mind fuck.

 

[nygiants1313]

I'll never forget my first amp psychosis. I was looking at the walls, shadows were dancing and lights were all over the walls. I looked at my phone and the light was swirling like a vortex type thing i thought it was amazing. Although i was watching my blinds i thought they were separating by little aliens trying to open up my window and sneak me out with nobody noticing . they would almost fully get opened but the aliens would stop. This would continue for a long time i looked out my window and it sounded like a bullet whizzed by or a jet flew by i was like wtffff is going on . Then i recall aliens asking me if i would go with them , but id have to leave my whole family behind , and whatever but i said fuck it earth is boring im ready to leave . Then i shook my head forced my eyes closed and it all stopped it all since i woke up that day. At first i was enjoying it , until things got to wild lol. Dont let this be you. Sorry for the story i thought its be entertaining .

4- day crystal meth binge literally no food barley any water, no sleep.

Be careful

 

[LearntYoung]

When you experience negative effects from a certain drug, it's always best to just counteract it with another drug. That's how you'll eventually have 0 side effects and only wonderful experiences! :D

Or instead you could try to lessen your drug intake (including alcohol) and take better care of your body & brains. You'll need them for the rest of your life!

 

[Allein]

When you experience negative effects from a certain drug, it's always best to just counteract it with another drug. That's how you'll eventually have 0 side effects and only wonderful experiences! :D

I'm going to assume this comment was meant with an enormous dose of irony, taking drugs to counteract the effects of other drugs is pretty much never a good idea, although I accept there are some exceptional cases where it's required.

A good example is taking loads of benzos to counteract amphetamines, I've done this and still do from time to time and it's never a good idea. Benzo sleep is largely worthless in terms of genuine rest, what you need to do is just stop taking more amphetamines. Easier said than done but still by far the best of your options, IME the fatigue and associated symptoms of the end of a lengthy run on amphetamines are made much, much worse by the rebound anxiety of heavy benzo use.

People may suggest a small dose of benzos to calm yourself in such a situation, this may work if you have a very limited supply but don't ever think you're going to be making good decisions whilst on drugs, they may well seem like good decisions at the time but in retrospect they rarely are

 

[Lucybetina39]

I personally believe that if you overdo it on amphetamines, i.e. you take a "therapeutic"dose and decide it is not as effective as it once was and you break off a bit more and a bit more... it will lead you to "NEED" that come down. Try taking amphetamines at the same dose a few days a week, take a holiday or two, then continue on... if you need a comedown have a drink here and there after work.

 

[jagged-wire]

I appreciate all your input but unfortunately, even with my efforts to cut the alcohol first, I experienced some heavy blow-back tonight.

As you know, I had cut my drinking down pretty seriously for a couple of weeks and I decided I would go without any alcohol today. I think I experienced my first "DTs" in the middle of the night. At first I was really confused, sweating, nausea, leg cramps (probably due to exercise), tinkling throughout my body and numbness, racing thoughts, really racing, and hearing songs in my head that wouldn't stop. I honestly, had no idea what was going on so I drank a bunch of water, tried to calm myself down with some valium. It was mildly effective, but wasn't quite cutting it. I figured I must be having a panic attack of sorts but then I thought, maybe it's the liquor, so I took a couple of drinks and now I feel, mostly, okay again. Apparently, you can't just "stop" or seriously cut down on alcohol without experiencing some really nasty effects. I always assumed it was like some kind of joke and never took it seriously.

I have to finish out this semester and I got to take this crap one-by-one. I think I should lower my intake of everything to the bare necessities to get by, including the alcohol but I don't think I can just cold-turkey this over like I did when I was a smoker.

After the semester, I can take some time to deal with this and detox myself but do you have any suggestions for the next say 4-5 weeks?

Thanks again for sharing.

 

[jagged-wire]

I can stress, I feel "mostly" okay. Still parts of my body are numb and tingling but the fever, panic, nauseousness, racing thoughts went away. The other thing I pondered, was this amp withdrawal, an alcohol withdrawal or a benzo withdrawal? I also did no amps that day and I wasn't about to pop one now to find out.

I can pretty much rule out benzos because they didn't seem to help much but what is the difference between an amp withdrawal and AWS (alcohol withdrawal syndrome). Because the symptoms overlap a lot, does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[Allein]

Your not experiencing physical alcohol withdrawal whilst your taking benzos and 'taking a couple of drinks'

The standard treatment to deal with DTs etc is to tale a controlled amount of a benzo, I stopped drinking CT from a daily bottle of whiskey using diazempam and suffered almost no physical symptoms.

As far as chemistry is concerned withdrawing from alcohol or benzos ( there are similarities there ) or amphetamines there is little relationship if at all.

IME ceasing amphetamines will cause fatigue well beyond just feeling tired and a level of depression, but much of the symptoms beyond that are very much based on the individual and , or course anything else they are continuing to take.

If you're determined to cease amphetamines I;d concentrate on that, ATM it sounds like you're randomly self medicating with booze and benzos, if it were me I'd bit the bullet and just use benzos in a controlled manner, they would prevent any really nasty WD from alcohol and help you r anxiety as well as assist rest from the stopping of Amphetamines.

But be very aware that benzos ca be extremely habit forming and daily use over weeks will require you to taper you dose down over a period of time to avoid unwanted and possible dangerous results.