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New, have questions.

J

Jan108

Greenlighter
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
40
Location
Cowtown. Yahoooo!
Let me preface this by saying I have never had an addiction. I've been around some addicts, but have never been there myself, despite doing many drugs in the past.

My friend is hooked on oxy (in Canada, they're not real oxy, but fentanyl I believe?). He is hard core. He does on average of 10 'dirty 80's' (as he calls them) daily. I've seen him do it, the money he spends is nothing short of disgusting.

Yup... he averages 10 80 mg pills daily. Up his nose. for over a year now.

He wants to quit. Last 1/4 pill he had was yesterday morning, that he scrounged up from a pocket in his jacket. I will not loan him anymore $$. He went to a doc yesterday and got scripts for zoloft and who knows what else (can't remember, I saw the scripts tho) and a referral to a methadone clinic. Today he calls me, a mess. Hasn't slept all night, crying, in pain, etc... tells me the methdone clinic can't help him. Told him that with the amount of drugs he did, the methadone would kill him. Says he's ready to rob someone, in tears, just sounded so broken :(

WTF? I call a clinic and ask them about it. They tell me he must have misunderstood. That yes, they can help, BUT, he needs lab work done first as well as a heart test to ensure his heart is ok. Once all that is done, they can start him on treatment. It's friday. Nothing will be open by the time I get off work except for hospitals, and they don't carry methadone.

He's wreck. I want to help, I just don't know what to do for him. I know I can't do a whole lot for him, I know he needs professional help, but if I can't get him to a hospital at least, what else can I do? The lady at the clinic told me there's risk of seizures too... I guess I just want to know if there's anything I can do to help, make him feel better, something... NOT giving him money for drugs though. Ideas?
 
Hi. It's sounds like he told you they couldn't help him because he wanted the methadone right then or just wasn't interested in going that route. He sounds so bad because he's probably in withdraw. As far as I know, from experience, you cannot have a seizure from withdrawing from oxys. I think the best thing you can do is try to get him to a hospital where they may be able to treat the withdraw symptoms
 
I believe you can have a real bad time and physical problems coming off that much opiates.
He would probably have to start with 120 mg. Maybe less.
You have to give him some opiates. Give him money until he gets clearance from the methadone clinic.
It´s a real traumatic situation you are close to see.
 
Mstmil said:
Why would you give him money? He can live without the opiates.
Click to expand...

Because it's a trade off of earning trust over the risk of using for a little longer. It may or may not be worth it. Hard to tell unless you're close to the situation and know the person well.
 
I did end up giving him some money. I couldn't bear to see him like that. Saying he can live without the opiates is an ignorant thing to say, especially when it's a long term addiction and you saw what I saw. He was not in good shape at all. Called me at work saying that he's either going to rob someone or drive his car off a bridge. I told him just to go home and quit being stupid, that we'll figure something out when I get home (he lives with me, roommate). He was at home when I got there, but not in good shape at all so I gave him some cash to get him thru the weekend. He gets paid today so he'll be giving it back. I honestly wasn't going to give him any, but hearing him puking in his room before I left for work, the phone calls and texts thru the day and then seeing how rough he looked when I got home, I just couldn't say no. He was suffering something bad.

He went and bought some and is rationing himself to 3 a day until he can get into the methadone clinic/detox, whatever he gets put in. He gave me the rest to hold for him, I'm to give them to him at the times he told me to. So far, so good. He is waiting to get the tests done and then wait to hear when he can get into the clinic. They told him it probably wont be till the new year and they told him to just keep doing what he's doing until he can get in, so he's limited himself to 3 beans a day.

He is very determined to clean up, but he knows he can't do it on his own. He's the one who initiated everything, going to the doc, telling him about the addiction, calling detox centers, clinics, etc... He spends a minimum of $1200 a week on the green boys and it disgusts him that he's spending that much. He makes good money but doesn't have much to show for it due to his addiction, and I think that's whats making him want to stop.

Unfortunately I'm going out of town today for 4 days, so he'll have to be responsible for his own pills. He is very honest with me, he bought a couple extra this weekend and told me about it, gave me one to keep for him for this morning. I am a bit worried he'll go overboard again while I'm gone, but he knows he can tell me and I wont judge. As I've told him, if he needs my help, I'll do what I can to help, but ultimately, he's responsible for himself and if he chooses to go overboard, there's nothing I can do, especially from out of town but I know he'll be honest with me. Just yesterday he told me how hard it was to just stick to 3 a day but he's trying really hard. I told him I'm very impressed and proud he's managing to deal with it, especially considering what he normally takes. He kept saying 'really? are you really proud of me?'. I sure am. I've heard how hard it is to beat an addiction and the fact he's trying to ration himself before he can get help, to me that says a lot.

I guess we just have to take it day by day.
 
You're good friend. He's very lucky to have you.
I just want to add that it's time he seeks help.
Whether it is the methadone clinic route he chooses or something else, he needs to know without a doubt its time.
Its great your there for support, but unless you make it 100 percnt clear that he has to get help and his financial support of his drug is over...
I dont see things changing.
I'm a recovering addict and I think most would back me up on that.
Don't let him make you feel bad for putting your foot down. He needs to know he will not be enabled in his addiction anymore. You can be there to support him thru this, but it needs to be clear you won't support his addiction any longer.
That he's slowly commiting suicide and you want no part of it. Because frankly that is what he is doing.
The methadone clinic is trained for this. If he makes it there he will not be in pain once he begins treatment. Methadone is as strong (i would say stronger having done both) of a pain killer as what he is currently taking. Once he is stable he won't have the high highs and low lows.
And he won't have to worry about searching for his drug of choice all the time. Its should be somewhere in the ball park of around 100 bucks a week-- give or take 20 bucs. I know they do it diffently in Canada so it may be less just call to find out.
I know its hard watching someone suffer,
but the financial support has to stop. You need to remove his options.
He choices need to be get help or be sick.
A or B.
 
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Yes, you're absolutely right, I know I can't continue to support him, and he knows that too. I don't make anywhere near what he makes and he gets mad at himself saying that he shouldn't have to be borrowing money from me to support his habit, given with what he makes. I'm the first one he always pays back when he gets paid but I can't continue to be his crutch. I will be there to listen, offer a hug if he needs one, hell, I'll even clean up puke if I have to, I will be there for him, but not financially, I just can't. Yes, he gives it back but he makes far more than I do, I just can't afford to wait days getting my money back. I totally trust him, I've always told him he's the most honest junkie I've ever met.

Last week he dropped some oxy on the floor. I was on my hands and knees with him on the kitchen floor looking for his drugs. While we were on our hands and knees, I said "wow, look buddy, I'm not even a junkie and you got me crawling around looking for drugs". I said it half kidding but it just kind of struck me how absurd the situation was, helping a junkie look for his drugs. I think that kind of got to him too because a couple days later he was sitting in a doctors office. I don't think he has to pay for the methadone, I believe it's covered under our health care.

He knows he needs help, he started looking for it himself, but apparently there's a procedure to follow and the clinic I phoned told me that most clinics in the city wont be able to even talk to him until mid-January so that is why he's trying to ration himself to 3 per day instead of the 10+ he was doing. He says it's tough, but he knows it has to be done. I love the guy (as a friend), I just want to see him happy and healthy and if I can help him get there, then I'll do what I can. He knows he has a very addictive personality, we actually talked about that last night a bit, this isn't his first rodeo he says, but this seems to be the worst one for wd's so far.
 
Sounds like he might be ready. That's a plus in his favor. Your main goal as support (and you are a saint for be so supportive by the way)
is to get him to treatment.
I think you understand that.

Addicts can willingly or unwillingly suck others into their addiction. Seems like you got a habit too now. I was laughing with you when I read you were on the floor looking for a drug you dont even do. But just goes to show disease of addiction doesnt just affect the addict.
God bless you guys and hope peace comes soon
 
With a habit like that he should really think of getting on methadone maintenance or suboxone. Im clean from the opiates for awhile now, but if the street prices are anything like they used to be he is spending a fortune. Also once that level of use is reached i cant imagine that he gets much pleasurable effect. I think a maintenance program that he can use to taper down would be great for him.


>Methadone< >here< >here< >here< >here<

>Suboxone/Buprenorphine< >here< >SAMHSA bupe physician locator for the US< >here<

>Pharmacologic treatments for opioid dependence: detoxification and maintenance options<

I would combine the maintenance with substance abuse treatment.

I hope he can figure this out as he is likely paying a kings ransom just not to be sick.
 
He pays $25 each. He goes thru on average 10 daily, though he's told me he's gone as high as 15 beans daily. Do the math, it is a fortune!!

He got injured at work, that's how he got hooked this last time, fell off a roof and has chronic pain. He fully admits that he uses it to treat his pain, but also to numb himself from life in general. His relationship fell apart (due to drug use, but she's a bit of a twat anyways from what I've heard), but she's still calling and texting daily, they share custody of a dog and she's got him all messed up, along with other things he's been thru in his life, I get the wanting to numb oneself but there's more to life and he knows it, says he's a completely different person when he's clean and he wants to get back to being that person.

I'm really no saint. He's a friend and I care for him, I'd do the same for anyone I loved. I just want to see him get better and honestly don't know what I can do to help him, which is how I found myself here. I've tried the oxys for pain myself and I can see how easy it is to get addicted to them, but me being me, I'm afraid of drugs like that, for that reason so I tend to stay away from them for the most part because I know I do like them.

I guess he did kind of drag me into his habit, didn't he? I'm just grateful he trusts me enough to be open and honest with me. He will get the same in return. I have no problem telling him when he's being an idiot, I'm straightforward, say what's on my mind, as is he, so we can talk to each other like that, knowing it's meant with good intentions :)
 
And I just wanted to say, reading here has opened my eyes a lot. I always knew it was tough to get clean, but reading here, I have nothing but admiration for those who are struggling but moving ahead step by step, even if they take a couple steps back along the way. I appreciate the honesty I've read here.
 
There is absolutely nothing you can do but be present to help him when he decides to get help. If you are still there to lend him money he might not get help. Supporting one's addiction verses one's recovery is blurry sometimes, but you do seem to know he needs help.
I was using heroin and probably not as much as he is. Actually I don't know, but 800 mgs a day is a lot regardless. Maybe tell him you will support him if he switches to subs or methadone or you will bring him into a medical detox where he can be monitored. Don't buy him anymore pills… as hard as it is. It just feeds his addiction and will prolong change basically,
Good luck!
 
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the hard truth is that he's unlikely to ration to 3 a day if he's used to taking 10.

he probably needs to someone to help him go through the process into a maintenance program

or babysit him for a week or so of withdrawals.


right now he can't think rationally and logically.
he's not necessarily a person that would normally manipulate you, but his brain is messed up at the moment in opiate sickness
 
This is one lucky friend to have you in his corner. As one who has been also on the outside of the addictions of loved ones I urge you to read up on it--because addiction is lived by those that have it and those that care about them and it can be a craziness for both. Taking care of yourself, understanding for yourself the difference between enabling, being manipulated, supporting and having respect can be a very difficult path to stay on. Al-anon helped me to a large degree but fell short in other areas. Don't rule anything out--addiction is a mysterious and powerful beast and arming yourself with all the education you can helps everyone involved.

Again, though, I have to say that your kindness and lack of judgment with your friend is probably the best lifeline he has at this juncture in his life. Much love and respect for you.<3
 
Let me rephrase and say the actually withdraw of opiates will not kill you. I know, I just went thru it after a full tilt 4 years and had no choice but to stop cold turkey. As for the mental side of it, I can tell you that all sorts of crazy things go thru your head.
 
True ^ I did it and I'm still here. The only issues is other medical complications… If your friend is young and fairly healthy he can do it… If he is older and has any heart problems, or serious ailments.. he might want to check into a medical detox. I did a home detox… with a taper.. It's important to plan it out if he goes this route, cos the brain doesn't work well while withdrawing. Stock up on everything first. I always advocate for inpatient medical detox though if possible.
 
Props to OP for being such a good friend,most addicts would die to have someone like you in their lives(i mean the support and non judgemental outlook you offer obviously,not the money).You rock OP!(btw just out of curiosity,are you boy or girl?).

As long as he pays you back,i dont see why lending him money is a problem.As long as hes honestly thinking about trying to quit and is currently stabilizing himself on a low dose(compared to what he was doing ) which demands alot of willpower btw,i dont see why not.Hes gonna score anyway one way or another,why not keep him out of trouble(as long as you dont suffer economically or otherwise of course).The old belief "dont lend a junkie money,you just making him worse" does not always apply.
 
I am female. He is actually my roommate. I rented out a room in my home to help with some expenses I got hit with unexpectedly and I ended up with him lol

He has not once been late on rent, and has always paid me back, even if it means he goes without and gives me his last dime. I call him my respectable junkie, because he truly is. He told me not long after he moved in that he was an addict. It worried me at first, but as I got to know him, those worries subsided. I trust him completely. We have had many long talks, initiated always by him, about his lifestyle and his desire to quit and get his shit together.

I came home Monday to pack and load up my truck for a work trip and he was home. He gave me a handful of pills to hide thru the house and to text him daily as to where that days pills are. I got home last night and all was good. He did tell me he did score a real oxy (just one) while I was away but it did nothing for him, didn't even get him high he said (see, this is what I mean by I trust him, he is honest and tells me things like this. I don't judge, I don't tell him he disappointed me - because he doesn't, all I tell him is that i'm proud of him for sticking to his rules he's laid out for himself and even though he might slip up or take a couple steps back from time to time, he's still doing better than he was). I was away 4 days and he stuck to his 3 per day, other than that one oxy he scored off a friend and smoking some weed, which whatever, I smoke it too, so I think he did pretty good. He could have ransacked the house looking for his drugs, right?

We had a chat last night and he said that he doesn't think 3 are going to cut it. He told me he's going to bump it up to 4 per day because he can't make it thru the work day on what he's rationed himself to (he takes one in the morning, one in the afternoon and one before bed so he can sleep). I told him it seems like he's trying to justify taking more, but never having been an addict myself, I can't pretend to understand. As long as he is trying to control it until he can get to the clinic, then that's all that matters. It shows me he does have a real desire to take his life back. As it stands now, he can't get into a clinic until mid to end January at the earliest and they told him to just keep doing what he needs to do to hold on until he can get in. This rationing of his pills was entirely his idea, and the fact that he gives me his drugs to try and keep him on on the track he's put himself on tells me he's really wanting to do this.

Admittedly, I don't know him all that well, I've only known him for like 6 months, but we connected right off the bat, like we've been best buddies for years. He always tells me that I'm the only person he can be honest with and talk about anything with, he's told me I'm his best friend, that he'd be lost without me, etc. It's not just drugs we talk about either, we talk about his on/off prima donna girlfriend, his batshit crazy mother, abuse he suffered as a child, all kinds of things. I realize that may be the addiction talking, but it's not just words with him, his actions back up the things he says too. I was honestly excited to see him after being away 4 days last night and he was just like a puppy when he got home, all excited that I was back lol

As for the money, if I have it, and he needs it, I will help him out where I can. If I don't have it, I wont, and there have been times where I didn't have it and he's ok with it, he finds other ways. He's always paid me back when he said he would and after seeing what he was like without, I wouldn't let anyone go thru that, especially knowing they're serious about getting help and just going thru the motions until they can get the help they need. He also knows not to take advantage though. I told him if he fucks me over just once, I'm done. He's been nothing but honest with me from day one about a lot of things so I need to respect him for that. As long as we can keep things real, then it's all good. He's done things for me too, so it's not all one sided. He is a good guy, he just needs someone in his corner I think, just to know he's got some support and someone who really does care for him as a person, not just for his money, drugs or whatever else.
 
if the pills really are oxycodone then 3 a day might be feasible if he eats then whole instead of snorting them. Ive never tapered anything before but it seems to me if he was snorting them, then taking them orally will improve bioavailability. It probably won't get him completely well but it seems feasible, again assuming these pills are oxy.
 
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