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    Switching from opiates to kratom? 
    #1
    Has anybody here successfully seized opiate use with kratom? I'm wanting to pretty much quite pills and replace them with kratom but I've found It doesn't have much effect at around 6g doses. Just a slight body buzz with mild sedation. My drug of choice thus far has been Tramadol, occasionally combined with a benzo. I Normally dose around 200mg, never exceeding 350mg in one day and I try not to dose more than one day in a row. I probably use three times a week. Sometimes less, sometimes more. I've never really gone through sever physical WD's and id like to keep it that way with the kratom. I just have a few questions.

    1. will my tolerance to real opiates disappear eventually, thus making kratom more effective?

    2. whats the best dosing schedule to reduce dependancy/tolerance?

    3. what would be a comparable dose of kratom to the amount of tramadol I normally take?

    4. are there any ways to make kratom more effective?

    Thanks in advance. I'd really like to make kratom work for me, and I'd love to get the most from the experience. It just seems relatively mild, and I don't feel many of the effects people speak about.
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    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    Hey! I will read this now...I am using kratom for this purpose, seemed cheaper and easier to get ahold of than pills for withdrawal
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    #3
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    Ok, I read it. Kratom is the bomb! 1 tablespoon mixed with water takes care of my fever and discomfort. Add grapefruit juice for power. Try to taper the kratom soon after you begin, weed might help with this? I am in a similar boat
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    Quote Originally Posted by CfZrx View Post
    1 tablespoon mixed with water takes care of my fever and discomfort.
    Add grapefruit juice for power. Try to taper the kratom soon after you begin, weed might help with this? I am in a similar boat
    Hi!
    Liquid Kratom, is one table spoon enough?
    To ease w/d from mmt..maybe I should take 2 spoons?
    Thanks!!
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    #5
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    In your situation it's very possible, and probably a good idea. If you can't get your kratom to match at the very least or exceed the strength of 350mgs of tramadol you may wanna look into a new supplier, especially if your not even using tramadol daily. I frequently use the both and 7.5g of decent quality kratom is, for me, definitely stronger than 300mgs of tramadol, and when my kratom use was at it's peak, 10g of kratom would still get me high whereas anything under 400mgs of tramadol was worthless, which meant I ended up dropping tramadol altogether.

    Try upping your dose by a gram each time you use and if you don't find any beneficial effects look into a new supplier. Only buy kratom from online vendors who specialize in kratom and/or ethnobotanicals... never buy brand name, packaged kratom and never buy your kratom from headshops.

    1. No, kratom is a mu agonist like all opioids so as long as your using it, tolerance to "real" (kratom is just as much an opioid as tramadol) opioids won't decrease and will do just the opposite, increase tolerance. Good thing is tolerance to kratom generally builds very slowly for the majority of users.

    2. Depends on how close you wanna cut it. A guaranteed problem free schedule would 2-3x a week with two days between doses, but you could typically get away with more if your a risk taker. As for tolerance, it depends on how quickly you build tolerance, therefor your gonna have to be the judge. If you start to notice the effects getting noticeably weaker, take a break. Due to it's incredibly short half-life tolerance drops FAST... faster than any other opioid I've tried.

    3. Eh, hard to say because it's entirely dependent on the batch. Just today I received a new, very potent batch of bali that got me really buzzed. I say this with surprise as the batch of white vein borneo I went through before this barely did shit, and increasing the dose made me pretty sick. As this phenomenon is common with increasing tolerance, I just thought it was time for a break... turns out the batch just wasn't cutting it. Like I said, just work your way up and if you don't get a satisfying buzz get a new batch and try again. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to match the effects of such average doses of opioids as weak as tramadol. Unlike tramadol ime, stomach contents drastically affect how much you will get out of your dose. Try to eat your kratom on a near empty stomach. You can go for the completely empty stomach, but this isn't really necessary and can lead to some serious nausea if your stomach is so empty that your significantly hungry.

    4. Nope, not really... and any benefit would be pretty miniscule bordering on placebo (besides additive effects in the case of psychoactives). Some will say to chug fresh grapefruit juice or eat enzyme inhibitors but that shit has just flat out never worked with kratom for me, or anyone I know for that matter. In fact taking enzyme inhibitors such as Cimetidintle (Tagamet) have only ever made for a significantly weaker, but longer lasting high which doesn't sound very beneficial in your scenario. You can experiment, but don't expect miracles. I would wait until you have tried upping the dose and/or trying another batch before dipping into these potentiators though.

    You can try taking benedryl (Diphenhydramine) to potentiate your kratom, some swear by this but IME it just dulls the buzz and increases sedation. I'm in it for the euphoria, not sleepyness. What good is a nod if it's without euphoria? Cannabis goes fantastically with kratom, but it's definitely more of a synergy than potentiation. Good news is, If those doses of tramadol get you high, you won't need any potentiation. However, one thing you will notice is kratom doesn't last nearly as long as tramadol. With kratom I get on average a 3-4 hour buzz whereas Tramadol typically lasts around 7 or so hours.

    Good luck in your search for a substitute .
    Last edited by 《Plasticity》; 06-12-2014 at 10:51.
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    #6
    Thanks for the reply man I appreciate. It may sound stange but i'm one of those dudes that can really get off on tramadol. As a matter of fact I prefer it over hydrocdone and oxycodone, it's weird lol. I guess I'll just try and up the dosage. I ordered fours strains; Green vein bali, Thai maeng da, Red vein sumatran, and white vein phucket (plus i got a free sample of white vein vietnam ). I guess i'll just keep playing around with it. I took 6 grams of the Red sumatran about three and a half hours ago. It was nice, just really light and subtle and the "High" only lasted about two hours. I ordered from a very reputable vendor as well. I guess I'll up the dosage in a few days whenever I experiment next and go from there.
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    #7
    Another weird thing is i've been using tramadol for probably a good 8 months now and I've only increased the dosage from 100mg to 200mg. I just really want drop the shit, i'm not prescribed it and if there's a safer, legal alternative i'm all for it.
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    #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainKratom View Post

    Try upping your dose by a gram each time you use and if you don't find any beneficial effects look into a new supplier. Only buy kratom from online vendors who specialize in kratom and/or ethnobotanicals... never buy brand name, packaged kratom and never buy your kratom from headshops.

    Good luck in your search for a substitute .
    Does liquid kratom works as well? A table spoon will help me even if I have a great tolerance due to mmt?
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    #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmen View Post
    Does liquid kratom works as well? A table spoon will help me even if I have a great tolerance due to mmt?
    If your on MMT you just won't get a strong high, but it will definitely help withdrawal and can possibly even help you kick it if your willing to suffer a bit. You won't have a tolerance to the stimulant alkaloids so you may get some mood lift and clean stimulation, but don't expect a nod or anything close. By liquid kratom do you mean an extract or a tea made from powdered or crushed leaf? If it's an extract a tsp may be too much, if a tea it's all dependent on how strong you make the tea. If you are talking about an extract, I may be able to help if you find a dose if you give me the name of the tincture. I'm a bit confused by your question, are you asking how much kratom you should use for a tea?

    If you prepare your tea correctly, I find that I only need to add .5g - 1g more than your standard oral dose for equivalent effects. Since everyone has their own sweet spot your gonna have to find out for yourself. You should really use a scale, but a Tsp measure is roughly 2.5g when leveled (don't use a household tbsp!) so your gonna want to start out at a minimum of two Tsp, but since your on MMT your likely gonna need alot more... just don't start out too high or you'll just get sick and dizzy like cfZrx said, it's incredibly unpleasant.

    When making tea it's very important to keep the water well below a roaring boil, but also warm enough that you would scald your finger pretty bad had you tried to touch it. I find 15 minutes is sufficient, afterwards I stick it in the freezer for 5 minutes and strain through a T shirt, making sure I squeeze the remaining liquid very thoroughly. A tip for tea making, don't add the kratom until the water is at your desired temperature or the kratom just floats on top and makes for a weaker tea IME. When done correctly tea should feel a bit smoother and just as strong, with a peak around the 45 minute mark as opposed to the 1 - 1.5 hour mark when eating the powder whole. The duration is also a bit shorter however. (these are my time-lines, ymmv).
    Last edited by 《Plasticity》; 06-12-2014 at 23:25.
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    #10
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    White vein phucket? Lol first time I've heard of that strain. I just edited my post a bit so I don't know if you saw it, but be sure to eat your dose on a near empty stomach as stomach contents drastically affect the effects. Eating a fatty meal around the hour mark increases the absorption by quite alot. I also made sure to mention that kratom doesn't last as long as tramadol, quite a bit shorter as a matter of fact. Go ahead and re-read my post. Also it may just be the strain, and not the vendor. Not all strains pack the same punch even when from the same distributor. Anyways, your not all that weird regarding tramadol, I jive well with it when tolerance is kept to a minimum as well
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    #11
    Phuket*

    My bad haha. I know your not allowed to discuss vendors on here but i'm sure if you look the strain up you'll know who i'm talking about.
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    #12
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    Your mail is full..
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmen View Post
    Does liquid kratom works as well? A table spoon will help me even if I have a great tolerance due to mmt?
    When I tried the liquid it didn't do a thing for me. Only one way to find out though
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    #14
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    hi erikmen! i just got some liquid, seems strong but i hate the alcohol base. nothing is as strong as a full tablespoon of powdered leaf in my experience. gonna fix my mailbox
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    #15
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    I have been happy with my first two orders from the wholesale place, borneo red and malaysian white, but I'm glad I bought the liquid shit from the other place I mentioned cuz I dont always feel like suckin down a cup of k
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    #16
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    One guy on youtube "Carpo" warns that the wholesale places have sent him shit product after the first nice bag, so be aware...
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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CfZrx View Post
    hi erikmen! i just got some liquid, seems strong but i hate the alcohol base. nothing is as strong as a full tablespoon of powdered leaf in my experience. gonna fix my mailbox
    Great, thank you!
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    #18
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    kratom makes me dizzy if i overdo, so its like a built in safety mechanism
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    #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CfZrx View Post
    kratom makes me dizzy if i overdo, so its like a built in safety mechanism
    Yes, true. This happens with me with some specific meds. I just need to stay on the prescribed doses.
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    #20
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    Today is the first day I transitioned from giant heaping tablespoons down to a single leveled off teaspoon with a little squirt of extract put in for good measure, and frankly because I just got it in the mail and I am excited to use it. My goal with this taper has been to drop from plugging or IVing 2 60mg MS Contins on top of my 45mg daily prescribed dose for pain down to just the 45mg daily. So it's been like 2 or 3 weeks of focus on this taper, and this week was the end of any additional pills...only kratom to help now. I can't wait to hear how it goes for you once you recieve your kratom Hopefully we don't end up taking it for years!
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    #21
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    Well if your just taking Tramadol a few times a week Kratom should do something for ya if ya get some good stuff. I used it a few years ago when my source for Pods dried up, usually used about 6 tablespoons of the Pods, then when I switched to the Kratom I still felt like I was in some kind of mild W/D but could still go to work, just felt off a little. Got use to the Kratom and was using about 4 tablespoons at a time so by the end of the day it would be 16-20 TABLEspoons at a time, but I barely ate while I was using it, found it more stimulating than sedating...also was still using pills here(mostly hydro & oxycodone) and there while also taking the Kratom... I would get the Bali strain for the most part since people say it's the most 'sedating' one, and was ordering in bulk, like 1 or two pounds every two weeks. Quickly just went back to pills all the way after a few months of kratom...but at your dosage of Trams you should be fine as long as you get quality stuff, and you definately will not need as much as I was having to take...
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    #22
    Bluelighter CfZrx's Avatar
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    Btw, I never got any kind of effect from tea, but then I boiled the shit out of it. Sounds like Captain K has a good idea for tea
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    #23
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    Substituting one for another is not the answer... Embrace the suck and move on, you're going to be so glad you did. You don't ever have to be a slave to a chemical ever again.. I believe in you.
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    #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Non Nobis Solum View Post
    Substituting one for another is not the answer... Embrace the suck and move on, you're going to be so glad you did. You don't ever have to be a slave to a chemical ever again.. I believe in you.
    You are so right Non Nobis! I am so sick of this merry go round...I should embrace the suck and move on.
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    #25
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    ^ He's not dependent opioids, he just wants to sub his occasional tramadol use for kratom. Due to the seizure risk associated with recreational use of tramadol, I think this is a very good idea. Seizures shouldn't really be an issue at his doses, but tramadol doesn't exactly play welll with others either. opioids would be ideal though

    @CfZrx - Kratom is pretty tough against heat, but actually boiling the tea will definitely ruin it. Try and keep the heat low if you ever do decide to do it again, and be sure to stir it frequently. Tea feels alot cleaner and allows you to take higher doses before hitting that point of pure nausea/dizziness that most kratom users will have to deal with eventually.
    Last edited by 《Plasticity》; 07-12-2014 at 06:18.
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