Tryptamines The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Five

[Ballz_Trippington]

PLEASE. Stop taking such low amounts. 10-15-20-30... mg? That's not going to do anything for you. TRUST me. Trust Terence McKenna. Trust the people who have done the experience. I implore you folks to take at the VERY LEAST 5-7 grams of mushrooms which equates to about 50-70mg of 4-AcO-DMT. If you have the fumarate salt, I would say take 80mg as you might want to compensate for the fumarate molecular weight.

You cannot hope to achieve a spiritual trip unless you take massive doses. That simply is the fact that I have discovered and I just want to share it with the world. I know people know this. I know I'm not special for having discovered this, but for the ones that do not know, please. You HAVE to take more.

And that's all for now. I have no answers and I can't teach or show anyone anything. I'm only relating my experience and what I think. I think others may benefit from my technique.

Try it out and see how it works.

Thanks for reading :D

This is a harm reduction forum and you have to realize that everyone is not you and won't neccecarily have the same experience you have with drugs at the same dosage you took.
I've seen many people freak out on 15mg of 4-aco-dmt - describing it as overwhelming.
I personally am quite comfortable at 50-100mg of this stuff but I think that's due to tolorance and decades of tripping experience. Most people are not going to need that kind of dose and if they aren't ready for it it could real psychological damage.

 

[MocCozmiK]

4-aco-dmt dehydrates me. Omg. I feel that I have drink plenty of water but with no effect. Lips dry, skin dry, mouth dry..
Irritates the crap out of me

But I do love 4-aco-dmt

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

There is absolutely no harm that can come from this from the dosages I have mentioned. Fear mongering and being entirely too paranoid is preventing countless people from achieving the mental space shamans speak of.

I don't believe that taking another 30-40mg of this stuff is going to do anything at all. When I first got the shipment, I took w/o measuring, 1/8th teaspoon full. Which was probably more than 160+ mg. I've done massive doses upwards of 220mg and more and I've discovered all that can happen on it.

There is absolutely nothing to worry about. We know that there is absolutely no physical harm that comes from psilocin. We know that there is no psychological harm that comes from it either.

I also don't believe in the notion of a 'bad trip'. Every trip is a good trip no matter how uncomfortable you feel, no matter how dark and sinister your thoughts and surroundings become, no matter what sort of deep and repressed memories you have to deal with. The entire concept of a bad trip is an idea born from people who only ever want to have a good happy fun loving time.

Well, IMO, discovering yourself and taking the journey of self discovery means accepting everything.

What is a bad trip? Nothing more than when things don't as you plan/want. People RUN from negative emotions instead of dealing with them. EVERY trip is a progression into your being. Another step into your journey of self discovery. You realize and figure things out. It's a progression. Nothing about ANY trip is bad. I've had trips where I wished I wasn't tripping anymore. I've had trips where I felt like I want this to stop so more than anything. But I pushed through. I learned from experience. The best way to learn. I know for a fact that this cannot kill me with the doses I'm taking. There is no way it can even mentally harm me. The only thing that could possibly happen is it forces me to deal w/ dark depressing shit. The mushroom has a mind of its own.

Harm reduction is good, but when taken to this insane level where you're worried about something as profoundly benign as psilocin it can actually cause more harm in the community than reduce it. IMO, telling people to take piss ant baby doses is very very detrimental for their spiritual health. You're teaching them to just stand at the doorway but not walk through it. What lies beyond is RIGHT THERE! You're AT THE doorstep. Why are you not taking the next step? People NEED to take at least 50-60mg for their first time ever. There simply is NO other way.

Sure, you can take 10-15 mg if all you want to do is have sex.


There are 3 stages.

1) microdosing to improve mood, cognition, and visual acuity.
2) slighter higher dose 1.5-2.5 gram of shrooms, so 15-25mg (up to 30mg) of 4-AcO-DMT (as the most potent natural aphrodisiac which causes what is known in science as successful copulations)
3) slightly higher dose 5-7grams (50-70mg) of 4-AcO-DMT where you are simply plastered to the floor contemplating your place in the Universe.



I didn't fear anything. I took massive doses.

Once I did 2 hits of LSD + 1 ounce of mushrooms. The most amazing and deep journey I've ever taken.

These are my opinions. I don't know anything. You just have to try things and figure it out.

This is what Terrence McKenna said too. You just have to try it out and see for yourself. You can't find yourself if you keep listening to other people. No one can tell you what to do.

I was taking baby doses b/c I was afraid. I was afraid b/c of all the things I read on all sorts of harm reduction forums. This has been taken to the extreme.

I had heard McKenna say multiple times that you NEED to buy a scale. Not b/c you're taking too much, but b/c people are NOT taking enough.

The most important point he made was that people should buy a scale b/c they simply are NOT taking enough.

There is no need to do harm reduction of the sort you're doing w/ this stuff. In my opinion and the opinions of countless others who have done high amounts, you really do need to do high amounts. Little tiny baby doses will NEVER do anything worthwhile.

Psychedelics are NOT about colors. They are no about shapes. They are not about fractals or patters, music or dancing or parties. They are about inner discovery and opening your mind. And you cannot do this w/o having taken massive doses.

IMO, you don't even need to work yourself up to 5gram (50mg). Just take it. I promise whatever will happen, is something that will NEED to happen.

This is age old wisdom from the gurus of psychedelia. I ignore them for years and I achieved nothing. I listened to them ONCE, JUST ONCE... and my life changed in ways you can't even fathom.

PLEASE my fellow monkeys. I love you. I wouldn't condone this so passionately if I didn't accidentally discover it and went EUREKA!

YOU MUST at the VERY least take 50mg. You have to. It's not going to fuck you up. It's not going to harm you. Stop being afraid of the mushroom.

The mushroom will NEVER lead you astray. It is the only true friend you will find that will always love you, never judge you and always care for you in ways you have never thought of.

You are being incredibly foolish with this advice for a lot of people...
I hate to keep repeating myself NOT EVERYONE is going to have a similar experience as you.
People metabolize drugs differently and have different sensitivities to drugs. 80 mg to night very well like 30 mg to someone new to psychedelics or who is just sensitive to them.
It is entirely irresponsible to suggest everyone dive into those kinds of dosages.
I've seen people stumble into medical tents freaking out on 30 mg. Can you imagine what 80mg would do to them if they aren't ready for such an experience??? It might forever turn someone off of psychedelics!
Everyone should start low and titrate up to find their individual proper dosages.
You are being reckless. Kids read these forums !!!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

1) It's not foolish.
2) Yes. There is a universality to the mushroom experience. That's is a point in fact.
3) 50mg is just fine.
4) So what if they freak out? Let them freak out. Let them figure it out through their own progression. I freaked out MANY MANY times. So WHAT?! Why are you coddling people? Do you think that the Shamans babysat people on their journeys? No. They don't have trip sitters. They are not babies. They take the mushrooms and send them off into the meadows to trip and figure things out.
5) This isn't recklessness. This is responsible use. The one thing I cannot emphasize enough is that people simply are NOT taking enough.

People NEED to freak out and have whatever experience they need to have. You're trying to control your psychedelic experience. THAT is the biggest mistake people make in psychedelia. NEVER try to control your trip. You will fail. Let the trip control you and just go with it. Only witness and experience it. Let it scare you. Let it terrify you. Let it uplift you. Let the trip do whatever it wants to do to you. LEARN from it.

*sigh*

I'm done. Whomever will try it, will see for themselves. That's all I can say. I didn't have any meaningful experiences until I stopped listening to people on forums.

Thanks.

I really have to question if you've learned anything from psychedelics at all. I've brought up MANY times that people have different enzyme make ups and different brain chemistry so people experience drugs differently. You keep ignoring this fact.
People are all individuals with very different life experiences and not everyone (hell not even most people) are ready to stare into the eyes of god on a psychedelic.
You are being shockingly ignorant and extremeley foolish. In fact, your whole post is a testimonial to NOT dive into taking heroic dosages of psychedelics because your experience is exactly what can happen where you take a huge dose of a drug and have a peak experience and your revelation is to encourage everyone else to simply do exactky what you did.
This isn't empathic or enlightening it's close minded and ignorant to think that you can force enilightenment on everyone.
Jumping head first into heroic doses of psychedlics without taking a lot of time (and sonetines psychotherapy) can lead to self delusion. I've seen it happen a lot. In this thread even. :/

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

That's like... your opinion... man.

Certainly,
But at least mines based on the observation of many many many peoples experiences on psychedelics and and not just my own. ;P

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Also, @Stoned Ape:
What's this terrible advice you keep getting on Bluelight that has impeaded your psychedelic journey???
No open said for you to not take a heroic dose, just to titrate up to find out what your personal heroic dose might be because it'll be different for everyone.
50mg to one person can be 100mg to another.
Do I don't understand your logic in any way. Some people have nothing but dysphoric and utterly negative trips on seretonergenic psychedelics. Everyone isn't you and won't have your experience.

 

[Catodion]

I agree with Ballz Trippington.

In my experience, 20mg gave a profound experience, which is the dose i'd recommend for first-time users, or actually less to be on the safe side.

Only when you find out on yourself that 20mg is not enough is the time to bump the dose up to 50mg or more if you want to become someone like StonedApe (no offense).

(And even i feel like i'm giving a bit too lenient and unsafe advice).

 

[kidklmx]

Yeah, first timers I'd give 18mg tops (almost typo'd 80mg lol). If they have experience with psychedelics around 26mg? I dunno, LSD/the 2Cs I need pretty large doses of comparatively, but 4-Aco-DMT, Mushrooms and the other trypts can kick my ass pretty quickly

 

[Xorkoth]

Everyone is affected differently by things. A friend of mine takes on average 15mg of 4-sub-tryptamines and gets very out there. Personally I like the 50mg level, but I also like it lower. I would never recommend anyone without previous experience at lower dosages to jump in at 50mg, I think that advice is quite anti-HR. Not everyone is built to handle psychedelics or high-dose psychedelics. You can, but it doesn't mean everyone else can. And besides, people have a huge variance in sensitivities to substances. It also doesn't mean everyone wants to use psychedelics in the same way, nor does it mean everyone should use them the same way. They're tools, they're not some sort of demi-gods that get offended when used the "wrong" way. The experience comes from within you, because we have everything within us. They can really help to draw that out, and they can certainly help you find yourself, and find greater understanding, but they can also lead in the opposite direction. Or, they can be fun to use recreationally, to enhance music or social situations or whatever. Early in my tripping days I used to go into every trip with reverence and I had several life-changing experiences (particularly with mushrooms - this was before 4-AcO-DMT existed), and I proselytized a bit, but many years later I have grown and changed. Currently I use tryptamines generally during jam sessions (20-40mg usually), because it's as if something is guiding my hands into brand new rhythms and melodies that I can then remember and bring back into my sober playing. And I use other psychedelics generally to enhance my experience seeing live music or to just have a great time with my friends, or to make a day out in nature have more of a sparkle. All of these ways are equally valid, and they all bring something positive into my life. Ultimately, I have gotten to know myself much better, and I don't need to revisit the deep psychedelic state to know the message. But I still use them, in different ways. Some people never feel drawn to spiritual experiences with psychedelics, and that's okay too, that's their journey. I have a friend who really wishes he could have a spiritual experience with them, but never has despite very honest attempts. We're all different.

One thing psychedelics have really helped me to understand over the years is that you should never be so sure you're right that you don't remain open to other ideas and critical of your own conclusions, especially about what's right for other people.

 

[Xorkoth]

Also 4-AcO-DMT isn't a mushroom.

See my post above that I was writing as you posted this.

To be clear, I am not saying that 50mg of 4-AcO-DMT is dangerous physically, even with syrian rue. I'm just saying, it's irresponsible to suggest to people to start with 50mg of 4-AcO-DMT their first time, with or without syrian rue. By no means should anyone jump in there. Jump in low or moderate, you can take more the next time if you feel comfortable with it. Personally I love 4-sub-tryptamines at that level, but I'm me, anyone else reading this might not be prepared to handle it. The fact is, sometimes people have long-term negative consequences like PTSD, or HPPD, from psychedelics, particularly from powerful trips. Some aren't ready to experience ego loss and it results in a severely disrupted life. You can read about these experiences all over the place online. 4-AcO-DMT or mushrooms or anything is not guaranteed to be a good thing for someone.

 

[phuckingnutz]

Stoned Ape, I was originally going to quote you in a few areas that your "reasoning" was fucked and realized that I'd have to quote EVERYFUCKINGTHING coming out of your mouth and don't have the time, energy or inclination. So it will suffice for me just to say you are totally and completely full of shit and that I have come to the conclusion that your 4-aco-dmt is lacking potency...either that or you have some exceptionally strong shrooms...I will go with the former though and hope that any psychonaut (in your case psychoNOT) out there takes this into account.

I will gladly read your response to this post as soon as the smoke that you are blowing up my/our ass clears.

Mods, I apologize in advance for the outburst, but I couldn't help myself...I'm generally on the receiving end of this sort of shit...how ironic...

 

[Help?!?!]

^Your one of those new-wave fools who thinks he's in the in and has discovered something special. While in reality you were simply lucky you didn't have your ass handed to waking up in the hopital. For the record, PN just literally said less than page ago that he was doing IM shots of 120mg which actually trumps your little experiment! It'd be one thing if you were telling veterans to do this but new inexperienced trippers? Are you out of your fucking mind? You also keep touting the fact it's physically benign as if it's something astounding! "Oh it won't hurt my body?!? Sweet! Let me usurp the beginners doses and jump up to insanely high doses!!! Wooo idiocy!". Yeah man there's clearly something wrong with you.... Just because something won't hurt your body does not mean it won't hurt your mind! I bet you'll feel pretty boss if someone follows your advice, is a new tripper, then we get word back that, being unable to deal with the overly intense feelings it produced, they decided into their mentally deficient state that killing themselves was the only way to end the insanity. You'd feel great right? I mean after all to make an omelette, you need to crack a few eggs right? Not to mention possible PTSD, derealization, depersonalization, aniexty, depression, etc, etc. I mean as long as it doesn't harm the body, we're all good right? Go be a fool somewhere else, we don't have time for your style of shenanigans! Every time you open your mouth it becomes more and more apparent how ignorant you are on all levels, truly, which is hard for the majority of people to do!

I really hate to be harsh but damn! Shits getting ridiculous!

 

[Xorkoth]

<-- Right now, your mind is closed. You've let yourself become convinced by forums and other people's ideas. I discovered this through experimentation. LIKE EVERYONE should.

It requires quite the set of assumptions to reach the conclusion that the reason I believe what I believe is because my mind is closed and I have become convinced by the ideas of others. I've been tripping a long time. Years ago I might have said things like what you're saying before, though I wouldn't have recommend that someone jump in at 50mg. But over time my ideas and mind continued to develop and I attained what I feel is a more balanced view. I've been tripping for 16 years now and have done so many hundreds of times, plenty of time for me to form my own opinions on the subject.

What's the deal with advocating jumping in at a high dose without trying a lower dose first to ease into it, anyway? You can always take more the next time, why rush it? Ultimately this forum is about harm reduction, and advising huge doses for inexperienced trippers is anti-HR. There are way too many factors involved to not work up to that kind of dosage.

Take a minute and think.

When you refute someone's ideas right off the bat, it means you have not yet given it much thought.

You say psychedelics help you to realize that you maybe wrong. Well, think about it. You just might be.

For me, it's not about right or wrong. It's about advocating taking responsibility of your own mind and not listening to others hampering your experience because THEY are afraid.

Indeed. Everyone should formulate their own opinions based on experience, but it seems that you're trying to advocate the "right way" to do it, based on your own experience, and that may not be right for others like it is for you.

You'll have noticed, I hope, that I said a couple of times that I'm not afraid of 50mg, I love taking 4-substituted tryptamines at that kind of level. I just don't think it's a good idea to jump in there, but rather to work your way up. My first trip ever was with 1.75 grams of mushrooms, and it remains the most paradigm-shifting thing I have ever experienced, because I went from not believing in spirituality to any extent to waking up as the universal consciousness and realizing that something beautiful is happening behind the scenes, so to speak. It's not always about dosage.

The way you're posting reminds me of how I posted in 2006-2007 when I was doing psychedelics very frequently and I was convinced of many things. I came to realize later that I was on a form of ego trip that came from nothing but good intentions, but which was nevertheless an ego trip.

 

[Xorkoth]

I guess I did assume you were newer at it than me, so that was my bad. Doesn't really matter if you are or not, either way my points stand. And can you answer me why you think it's not a good idea to start lower and work your way up?

I'm just trying to advocate caution. If you noticed, I've been saying that there are as many ways to use psychedelics as there are people. Everyone's experience is their own and unique.

 

[MSK]

Fuck people, are you serious? NEVER start with such doses, for a first time of an unknown batch of any substance. Start low, be familiar with the substance first, you have got plenty of time for upping the dosage later, with more experience. I can't believe what I'm reading lately on this subforum, like that post about a 350mg 4-aco-dmt trip with people encouraging such dosages?

Just no... Even myself as a teenager, when I began to take RC's and psychedelics, knew the golden rules... without reading them anywhere, it's just common sense!

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

The most astonishing thing about Stoned Ape is that he keeps thinking along the lines of "so what if someone has years of mental anguish and psychological trauma from taking a massive dose of psychedelics... I went through something like that and I came out ok so EVERYONE should!!!!!
If you really came from a psychiatric background I can only assume it's as a patient.
Either that or taking massive amounts of psychedelics without taking the time to integrate the trip has eroded all common sense.
I have yet to hear ANY examples of ANY bad advice on bluelight whatsoever from Stoned Ape.
Again, if you had followed advice about titrating up your dose, you'd still have found that your dose is 50mg or whatever... How is that bad advice????

 

[phuckingnutz]

<-- Ad hominem is easier than doing the actual work, isn't it?

Yep! It sure saved me reading your response Ape-man....catch y'all on the backside...oh, not you Ape.

And Ape, it'd be different as someone(Help?!?!) said, if you were telling a vet to do these massive amounts, but, to me, it seems that you just want to fuck some poor kids head up for no good reason at all.
Maybe you just want him to freak like you did..."many times" is, I believe, how you put it...misery loves company and all that shit.

 

[phuckingnutz]

My goal is to convince people stop listening to others and figure it out for themselves.

I have to ask. Aren't you "others"?
And you ARE telling people what to do...aren't you?

ok, I'll stay outta this thread until such time as we can be sane again...myself included...he ain't worth it IMO.
And, again, sorry to those who had to read this bullshit. Again, mine included.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

[/QUOTE]And it's okay to take 5g mushroom (50mg 4-AcO) for your first time. 50mg is harmless. Believe me. If someone starts to freak out, it's okay. They'll calm down. Please do not spread fear, uncertainty and doubt. We do not have fear. We are not uncertain. We know exactly what happens and have for thousands of years. We do not have doubts because we know from experience. Please don't spread FUD.

I cannot stress enough... people simply are NOT taking enough. NOT ENOUGH.[/QUOTE]


You would think someone with a psychiatric background would have the common sense to realize that some (quite a lot) of people simply aren't able to cope with a ++++ or even a +++ experience.
I have a friend who's prone to anxiety problems (he sees a psychiatrist by the way) and he litwrally cannot hznxle anything more than 7mg MAX!!
If he looks at LSD he gets a panick attack due to a severely bad trip he had over 10 years ago. It still affects him today. That's just one example and it holds true for people without anxiety problems too.
I cannot believe that someone with a supposed psychiatric background wouldn't have the professional awareness to realize that some people WILL react to such a high dose in such a way that it could be detrimental to them psychologically for possibly the rest if their lives and quite possibly turn them
Off of psychedelics after that one experience forever.
In fact I will assert that most people who do quit psychedelics do so after not being able to cope with an overly intense/negative trip.

 

[Ballz_Trippington]

Thank you for that fascinating testimonial to your psychedlic drug abuse.
I hope they allow laptops and mobile devices in the psych ward so you can keep us updated on all your "progress".
Unreal.