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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Legalisation - we need to push it everywhere we can

chugs

chugs

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Feb 23, 2004
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Like the LGBT movement we really need to get out there.

Come on guys and gals we need to start getting into public media and start explaining why drug legalisation is necessary. Right now SMH have open comments about ice addictions and the terrible tales of teenage prostitutes.

Now I know we don't agree on what legalisation looks like but here is my vision and some talking points that I'm more then happy for you to steal/borrow/use:

How

- public clinics (approx $500m a year) that are significantly staffed with medical specalists offering medical, drug education and counselling services.

- government manufactured and distributed drugs via these clinics. At no time should any private commercial enterprise be involved. Absolutely no profit in drugs. The bare min cost of the drugs is charged to the user. Approx $10-20 per gram of opiate for example/

- Users present to a drug specalist who examines them for any obvious medical condition. People with bad hearts will not be prescribed cocaine for example though if you pass you will be given a script.

- highly functional users who can prove they have stable housing and employment, who have no criminal-law matters, who have secure facilities will be allowed, after being submitted to various medical and educational services, to take home small amounts of various drugs.

- cannabis non-for profit co-ops that donate excess profits to various government approved NGO charities will be allowed to operate cannabis smoking clubs. Highly regulated in who and when you can smoke but will be allowed to offer a wide range of cannabis products (see the US
model).

- dysfunctional users with unstable housing, unemployed and with mental and physical health issues will be required to dose initally at the clinics. As milestones and stability reached dosing restrictions unrestricted.

- massive harm miminisation and drug education program for under 18 year olds.

- significant research into the glial activated withdrawal affect that causes the physical discomfort that we call opiate/meth/cocaine withdrawals. We need to be able to identify young people who have been, due to
stress in early childhood, predisposed to experience painful withdrawals from drugs.

- early intervention services. Right now anyone can have a baby and the best you get is a mid-wife a few weeks after the birth. Dysfunctional peopple who have children, who have a history of abuse, unemployed, violent and so on should be have almost daily intervention services.​


Benefits

- right now (i calculated this manually using state government budget documents) the state and federal law enforcement agencies in FY14 spent approx $17 billion. Approx 70% of that was on the enforcement of drug laws. Add in prisons, customs, and the money wasted on lawyers (defence and prosecutions, judges and other associated costs we're talking about an annual sum of approx $25 billion wasted on the drug war in direct costs.

- Over $20 billion per annum is leaving the country (ACC crime report). This money despite unlimited powers and funding for the police is going to the Mafia, Cartels, Taliban and others.

- We would save hundreds of lives from overdose, and tens of thousands of people who suffer substantial damage in their overdose. Medical costs and the lost productivity due to drug use is estimated to be in the billions.

- There would be a collapse in property and personal theft in Australia. The Methadone/Bupe program alone was recently estimated to have saved billions in theft. That for one drug alone.

- saving the lives of tens thousands across the planet who are dying in drug related wars and trafficking violence. (this alone should be enough of a reason to end the drug war)

- substantially disrupt and even destroy evil despotic criminal organisations

- show the police that the years of leaching parasitically off the public are over. These failures, disgusting leaches, inefficaciousness corrupt losers - who with unlimited funds and powers have utterly failed to stop drugs. Day in day out they arrest people in a revolving door of hate. They go into prisons drug users come out drug users and stay drug users no matter what these jack-booted scum do.

- Improve the quality of living for hundreds of thousands of indigenous and non-indigenous Australians. Imagine the kids you see in liverpool plaza with their "junky" parents finally getting access to DOCS services. Properly funded department that could intervene with the current at risks and stop the next generation from being abused!

In summary: We are talking about a sum that would equal approx $50 billion in direct amounts and about $10 - 20 billion with indirect amounts - PER YEAR. This represents about 5% of our GDP if not more. (approx three times our defence budget).​

Misc.​

- with the massive savings we could finally fund public dental. a big problem with a significant relationships with opiate drug abuse.

- we could finally fund our medical system properly (though I would tell the AMA and specialists colleges/associations that they would would need to reduce entrance requirements by over 15%). Doctors complain about massive case load but are more then happy to pocket the salaries that the limited supply of specialists/practitioners results in.

- over 40,000 people got diagnosed with cancer. Most of them for several years would have been feed a non-stop diet of opiate based painkillers. This is causing heroin to come back in a big way across the western world as cancer survivors have no specialists care to get over their addictions. With funded clinics they could get opiates, synthetic or otherwise to help them through their addiction, along with the necessary medical
​


So don't forget to go to SMH and any other forum and push hard for legalisation. I dare say we need a Mardi Gras for drugs. We need to get out and fight the riot police/society and show that we deserve the right to use drugs.

We have to put on the line our jobs, our families and lives to show the world that drugs aren't about getting high! Its about saving tens
 
I'm a bit on the fence about your ideas.
I agree drugs should be legalised.
Not just so they are easier to obtain but so more research can be done into them and also to take the money that could be made from criminal groups and into the economy.
What I don't agree with are some of te terms an conditions you lay out.
I don't think it should the governments job to manufacture drugs. Drug manufacture should be left to the pharmaceutical companies (as much of an evil sack of shit the whole Pharma corp is).
As much as I'd love to pay 10- 20 dollars for a gram of coke that will never happen, I'd see prices should be around what the euros pay for drugs.
I also don't think the idea of going to a doctor to dictate that your ok to take drugs recreationally, then the power of who can have them is back in the hand of someone else. If someone with a weak heart wants to get on the rack that's their problem no one else's. having someone say you can t do it will just make that person find and obtain it illegally.
The problems that need to be addressed are.

Price,
having the price of drugs right so people that want them will want to obtain them legally. If the cost is set to high then it opens up avenues for the black market to sell the same thing but cheaper.

Government control,
Not government manufacture. Government sets up a decision that regulates licenses to manufacture recreational drugs
This way avenues are opened up to job prospects for chemists to start legit production lines where it's monitored for quality and safety control with inspectors etc etc.

Only an age restriction,
Drugs should be sold a similar way as alcohol. An age restriction introduced and non propaganda education on drugs
Needs to be brought in for both parent and children, again this opens more job avenues for guidance councillors, rehab nurses and docs etc. people who want drugs should never need to see a doctor for a script to get something. This becomes a pain in the ass for everyone, it would clog up the health system with people booking appointments to get their fix. If someone is told they can't have a line of coke cos their heart is weak they won't care. If they want to do it they will and if a doctor doesn't prescribe it they'll resort to black market tactics.

Profit.
A profit must be made but the costs have to be regulated reasonably so a black market is not
Generated to cash in on a greedy government, the profits get invested back into the countries economy
And into drug education and addiction treatment.
The drug industry world wide makes enough in each country to fix debt issues.
Real planning needs to be made so that it is done properly and money taken away from the black markets.
All we need is someone with the balls to present it to the UN in a way that its full proof.
It's a multi billion dollar a year industry that is shit scary to a lot of people.

Great convocation starter that's for sure
 
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The amount if extra jobs alone this industry would creat is massive.
It would probably kill less people than the military industry too
 
There cry for legalization of drugs is growing louder !! Who has won the war ? The dealers and kingpins have ....

The main one that will get it over the line from the Government perspective is the the Tax revenue generated and as stated Job creation - work for the dole at dope cafe's for long time unemployed (not many arguments there i bet) ...

It really is a win for everyone the "drugs boom" will be Australia next economic driver instead of the money all going overseas untaxed..
 
Oldred3s said:
The amount if extra jobs alone this industry would creat is massive.
Click to expand...

Only to be offset by the jobs that are lost in the police, prison and legal systems.
Probably why many people in these industries may agree with at least decriminalizing on principle but they will fight for the WOD to be maintained despite the harms it causes out of pure self interest.

As much as I want things to change and not so I can access drugs more freely (it's easy enough as it is) I know it's a long way off or may never happen.
Because drugs although sometimes addictive are not as addictive as money and control and as long as people who crave money and control can use the drug laws to obtain them we won't see change anytime soon.

You cannot rationalize with crooked politicos in the pocket of big business like Tony Abbott , scientific evidence , moral obligation and self sacrifice mean nothing to them. The evidence is in; Global warming is real and drug laws cause more harm than good. There isn't a lack of data for justifying change in these areas there is a lack of WILL on the behalf if legislators to change and that is the biggest challenge.
 
The world is full of dickheads.
Drug law reform isn't going to stop people being dickheads.
 
At least having laws in place make it easier to drag them from the streets.

All this talk about education being the answer ignores the fact that 30% of the population are too dumb to educate in the first place. I mean drinking at the pub and deciding to drop G?? They are the same tossers who who would probably drive home despite the toilets being covered in posters warning about drink driving. The people who need educating about safe drug use are usually the ones who failed high school. How exactly are you going to teach them?

Let's have a register to sign up to if you want drugs from the government. Do you know who will be more than happy to access this list? Every insurance company on the planet that's who. Ever notice the question health insurance companies ask about whether you are a smoker, then notice your premium is twice that of your nonsmoking mate? Do you think car insurance, travel insurance and life insurance/income protection companies wouldn't be clambering to know if you are signed up to such a scheme? And don't try and argue that it's none of their business if you take mind altering drugs, because like banks it is in the governments best interest to have a financially stable insurance system.

I would imagine it employer groups would argue that they should know if someone is using drugs in the interest of public safety too. Suddenly the only ones who would benefit to signing up to such a scheme are the poor and desperate who have nothing to lose. Even then I'd imagine getting the dole and being a registered drug user would be quickly discouraged. If you don't have time to search for a job, how could you possibly have time to use drugs, which would discourage employers to sign you on.

So what's the solution to the 90% of the population who would be crazy to sign onto such a scheme? Probably stick to the black market that's what.
 
I think something for the addicts of ice and heroin who are beyond working and even beyond staying on the dole, the full blown down and out addicts who are resorting to crime to get their next hit, they should be allowed to sign in to a program (if they live in areas that would allow it, like large capital cities for example) where they got basically free hits of their DOC (ice/heroin) that they had to use in the supervised environment, something like the kings cross injection centre, then they could get several hits for free each day and be on their merry way, hopefully that would stop them stealing and breaking into places to get money for their next hit. If the centres stayed open till 9 or 10 pm then opened at 7 or 8 am that wouldn't leave them too much to fiend.

The government already has enough of the drugs to do such a system from consistent huge drug busts of either substance I would guess, it could be lab tested so it was pretty pure and good stuff. Then they just have to divide it into smaller end user amounts ready for passing on to the addicts in the centres for use. Also with clean equipment to use of course, and trained medics to be on hand in case of an OD.

Then whilst in the program the addicts could be offered support and access to things like computers and phones and help if they wonted to try to get into some form of rehab or detox centre. The kings cross injection centre has apparently saved so many lives from OD's and also giving clean needles would be helping stop the spreading of diseases.

I know this idea isn't full on legalisation, and the black market seems to be getting dodgier with it's drugs as time goes on and drugs use still continues to hurt and kill and police cant stop supply but at least the above idea would hopefully stop some of the most addicted to resorting to breaking into homes/shops/cars or bashing people to get some cash to afford drugs that are very expensive on the black market.
 
It is estimated that about 2.5% of the Australian population has used meth in the last 12 months. How many of those are house burgling addicts? I hazard to say less than 10% of that group.

I see a net loss rather than any real economic savings by catering to this small subgroup. If anything a lack of affordable access to meth is the only thing stopping a lot of users from developing a full blown habit.

The other thing to consider is the poor success rate of rehab treatment of meth users. Look around BL and you see how even the best treatment money can provide has a very low rate of return in keeping meth addicts clean. Most addicts agree that personal factors determine whether or not they relapse not actual treatment centers or access to them
 
Your point isn't exactly coherent here man.

I mean, so long as drug problems are treated as law and order issues, how do you envision people getting and maintaining the sort of support they need to rid themselves of meth addictions.
As you say - personal factors do play a huge role in this - moreso than traditional rehab programs - but the stigma of illegality and fear prevents a lot of people from being honest and open to friends and loved ones regarding their addictive behaviours.

That being said I don't know what the answer is, but drugs are not going to go away. It seems obvious to a lot of people that prohibition causes a lot more problems than it solves.
Perhaps if people were able to choose less damaging drugs, they would, and meth wouldn't be such a problem.

As for the ease of "dragging people from the streets" - drug laws aren't even necessary to do this in an age when undisclosed "antisocial behaviour" is sufficient grounds for a move-on notice or an arrest in many jurisdictions.
 
But it is wrong to think that prohibition is the majority of problems for most drug users. I would argue that general and mental health problems will exist even if all drugs were legal. The number of people here who argue that meth is better than coke because it gives you more "bang for your buck" doesn't give me much faith that if milder drugs were freely available they would steer clear of meth. Australians in particular like getting fucked up. People don't usually spend their hard earned cash on light beer when they have the option of full strength. Look at VB sales plummet as soon as they lowered the alcohol content a few years ago.
 
How would we deal with level of consumption? Would there be caps put in place?

If there's a cap how can we control people diverting their supply?

How would the price be set? Too much and it encourages illegal dealings, too cheap and many people may start using more.

I'm all for it but there's so many little things that we'd have to suss out. I'd like to see a trial done somewhere so lots of these things can be discovered and possibly remedied.
 
^not sure what point you are making, that .25% is not being helped by the legislature, surely it's preferable to minimize the harm this demographic causes to themselves and others. The production cost of meth is nothing, supplying this small number of people with maintenance meth would for sure be both humane and economically sound.

I agree that there are some big problems with believing education is the magic bullet to problem drug use. There is of course that % of people who can't use drugs responsibly, we see a similar % of people being irresponsible in other areas such as driving and parenting and drinking alcohol, yet they are legal so the argument that the few should spoil it for the many doesn't really hold.

The point most people are missing about managing drug use in our societies is not about the laws or education or even the drugs themselves, it's the underlying social, economic and psychological problems that lead to problematic drug use. We have some very serious problems with genuine care within our communities, inequality and a lack of quality alternatives to drug use.
All the prisons or free injecting rooms won't measurably effect drug use rates until we address these issues.

I'm not saying some drugs aren't dangerous/addictive but I'd bet the number of people who had a healthy upbringing and stable rewarding lives and become full blown junkies/meth heads is tiny compared to the number who are poor and come from troubled upbringings that become them.

It's my belief that regardless of the current legalities we need to better understand and define "drug use" (or "misuse" as the media and gov calls it) we need to recognize that drug use is not inherently wrong and that they can be used safely, that there are grades of use and only some of them are problematic.
 
How do they come up with those sorts of stats, like (about) 2.5% of the Australian population has used meth in the last 12 months? Wouldnt there be alot of users who wouldnt admit to use (i know I wouldnt) or they wouldnt be contactable to give an answer because of lifestyle or homelessness?

Do they ask such a question on the census? I can't recall.
 
Sex Party To Hand Out Happy Pills At Railway Stations

Published on Tuesday, 25 November 2014 06:02

Baggies_Election2014.jpg


The Australian Sex Party will hand out 'safe' happy pills at major railway stations in Melbourne tomorrow morning to protest the complete failure of prohibition as an effective model for regulating recreational drugs in Victoria. They will be at Caulfield, Broadmeadows, Coburg and Flinders Street train stations from 7:30am, Wednesday, 26th Nov.
Click to expand...

Party leader and self-confessed occasional marijuana user, Fiona Patten, said the individually bagged ‘happy pill’ mints were highly sought after by commuters and gave her the opportunity to speak directly to people about what it was like to sell and receive recreational drugs. “Most people realize that the recreational drug trade is like pyramid selling”, she said. “You have a popular product that is sold down the line from major importers all the way down to small street sellers and a cast of thousands in between. They all make money from this trade and no one pays tax”.

Ms Patten said that during 2012-13, there was a record number of 7,037 young Victorians who had been given a criminal record for simply possessing small amounts of marijuana. “Denis Napthine and Daniel Andrews should face the parents of these kids and hear what they have to say about the state’s drug laws”, she said.

“Drug law reform may well be the sleeper issue in this election campaign”.

Ms Patten said that the Sex Party wanted to promote a more effective and humane approach to drugs that was based on public health and human rights, as reflected in their Drug Law Reform Policy.

https://www.sexparty.org.au/news/1790-sex-party-to-hand-out-happy-pills-at-railway-stations.html
 
This is in Canada, but I cant see why it couldnt work here one day....

Heroin to be prescribed to Canadian addicts by doctors

Doctors in Canada will become the first medics in North America to prescribe heroin to addicts next week.

Staff at the Vancouver-based Providence Crosstown Clinic have received a shipment of medical grade heroin and will begin prescribing the drug over the coming days.
Click to expand...
 
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