To eat or not to eat?

[Jktm]

Is it better to eat fatty food with highly lipid soluble drugs so they more quickly absorb and stay in 5 he vascular space for longer (my thinking: it's already absorbed into the food, so it would take longer for it to be distributed to the other parts of the body), or is it better to take them on an empty stomach. (This question is about which has a higher efficacy, and not which is safer - thought I'd mention that.)

I have no basis for my hypothesis, only my hypothesis and curiosity. Please help a fellow with sans formal education past Chemistry II (no (formal) A&P, no (formal) Organic Chemistry, no (formal) Biochemistry, and no (formal) Pharmacology/Neuropharmacology/Neurochemistry).

 

[Abject]

Taking it on an empty stomach irregardless of whether in fat or not will be more effective than full, with all drugs. I know BF% affects how long weed will show up in a DT because it's soluable in fat. Some drugs are quite sensitive to stomach pH levels.
I won't take a guess as there are people here who needn't guess but come in TC some time

 

[Jktm]

One example: the highly lipid soluble drug 14-hydroxydihydromorphinone (Oxymorphone or Opana has increased bioavailability after a fatty meal.

 

[atara]

Stuff like vitamin A gets absorbed better along with fat, so it wouldn't be too surprising if some drugs did as well. However, it probably won't be a very large effect; such effects are generally small even for compounds which are meant to be absorbed in fat.

 

[Abject]

Now if there were preform and proform drugs..

 

[Jktm]

I was trying to leave things broad, but in the case of Butalbital with fatty food vs. empty stomach, who comes out the winner?

 

[Abject]

Step 1. Be fasted
Optional step. Drink GFJ if you're not mixing with benz
Step 3. Eat your barb with cheese/butter/oil/cream/avocado/nuts/whatever
Step 4. Wait a day and try again sans fat
Step 5. Compare effects

 

[Kilfer]

Taking it on an empty stomach irregardless of whether in fat or not will be more effective than full, with all drugs.

Most drugs, but not all. The typical example being marijuana that requires fatty solvent to extract THC when pot is ingested otherwise it'll hit as hard as parsley. Butter or shortening used in making brownies will do the job just fine provided you throw the pot into the mix before baking, not just swallow both separately.

 

[endotropic]

Most drugs, but not all. The typical example being marijuana that requires fatty solvent to extract THC when pot is ingested otherwise it'll hit as hard as parsley. Butter or shortening used in making brownies will do the job just fine provided you throw the pot into the mix before baking, not just swallow both separately.

Now this is totally anecdotal (from threads in CD and private conversations), but consuming raw buds gives a comparable high to eating fat based cannabis extracts. Extracting into fat might improve potency, but unprocessed works as well apparently.

 

[Zeds(NCO2CH2CH3)2]

Consuming "fat" or "food" with drugs is a complex subject- its TRUE NATURE originates in the concepts of "emulsifying" the drug by chance in the stomach through the ingested fat particles.

But where the whole troublesome topic began was with the misinterpretation of the concept of logP and lipophilicity, throughout the internet this has happened actually, drugs claimed to only be effective with food.
Consider pramiracetam, its said to be only effective with food but if you look at the structure there are two amides(essentially neutral), and one tertiary amine (with two diisopropyl arms i might add!). The logP is 1.17, INCREDIBLY LOW(note that there is NOT an absolute correlation with logp, lipophilicity, binding, passage of blood brain barrier- we have purported this but many studies claim in contrast as passive diffusion through the plasma membrane is not the only way molecules are transported!).

So in pramiracetams case, the logp is low but the molecule as a whole is highly lipophilic, and pretty neutral, so the administration of food may be in fact just decreasing the rate of water solubility capable for the drug by saturating the stomach, or emulsifying this. (AN INVERSE CONCEPT).

All in all this is incredibly difficult and very anecdotal as endotropic mentioned. Take above the THC extract concept- THC, highest occurring as THC Carboxylate as a whole is difficult to pass through membranes for some reason, which may make it hang around with other aggregates in emulsified mixtures- but eventually when it makes it to the gut, bacteria cleave that carboxylic acid right off, and the THC is reabsorbed right back into the blood stream. Suprising no? decarboxylation of the THC motif, or aromatic decarboxylases are not common in our cells but in bacteria hell yeah.
'
Raw buds definitely can produce a comparable high, but the bioavailability is lower for many complex factors, i.e you are eating a plant and our bodies are not excellent at breaking down cellulose("fiber") and thus rate of the THC leaving the plant is lower than eating an emulsified version and when it does get to the gut, the concentration is lower etc but it for sure works as many say.

All in all its REALLY COMPLEX and highly case dependent on the molecule, but its not hard to take educated guesses.
zedsdead

 

[Abject]

Most drugs, but not all. The typical example being marijuana that requires fatty solvent to extract THC when pot is ingested otherwise it'll hit as hard as parsley. Butter or shortening used in making brownies will do the job just fine provided you throw the pot into the mix before baking, not just swallow both separately.

You both somehow mistook an empty stomach for eating fat. Think about someone eating the drug (regardless of whether it's in fat or not) when they wake up compared to eating a drug after a 600g steak and 5 potatoes. This has nothing to do with whether you're eating a few grams of fat with it, which will have very little effect on your metabolism.