RCs L-theanine: potential solution to "rough" stimulants and crappy RCs

[CatchingTheDragon]

I didn't know what prefix to put on this because its a post about all stimulants, and l-theanine, and is also HR in a way, but I think most of the crazy sketchy stims are mostly RCs so I labeled it that instead of Amp. feel free to move it to wherever anyone things it will do some good.

So by now everybody knows about mixing caffeine and l-theanine to make a "nootropic stack" such that, while caff. alone doesn't actually improve cognition, it will when mitigated by the theanine. this got me to wondering how and why this happens. it FELT like the l-theanine was reducing the negative strenuous effects, mentally and physically, thee jitters, racing thoughts, and as a result i was left with the positive effects of caffeine. Then i found this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16930802 literally titled "L-Theanine reduces psychological and physiological stress responses".

My resulting thought process went as follows- " if it's not a specific synergy between caffeine and l-theanine but instead a general effect l-theanine has, then caffeine should only be the tip of the iceberg in terms of what this cheap supplement can do for stimulant use".

At the time the only stimulant I had on hand was about half a point of really good mdma, and I had aready been candy flipping, rolling and taking mushrooms for the three nights prior (albeit in small doses) so 50mg intranasal mdma should have done very little in the way of making me "roll" however, in combination with l theanine, not only did i feel a stronger effect on half a point then I had on a point and a half the night before w/o a tolerance, yet none of the physiological stress that usually comes with redosing on a stimulant after having been up all night was present. it seemed very much to amplify the positives and remove the negatives of both caffeine and mdma.

I later read somewhere that l-theanine is also neuroprotective against methamp. related neurotoxicity . Starting to feel like this substance was gods gift to stimulant users. really really want to see how it modifies something like dex/adderal

Unfortunately, as I have no access to decent speed in any form, I will have to wait on that experiment, but I have used it to turn normally garbage stims into somewhat productive or at least tolerable ones.... first yohimbe, which was all i had on hand to stay awake to write a paper but normaly it destroys my ability to concentrate because i'm preoccupied by unpleasnt physiological effects- not with the l-theanine however.

My most recent test of this substance's capabilities was done with propylhexedrine. I bought one benzedrex inhaler a few weeks ago, with no intention of dismantling it because i am sensitive enough to many stimulants (until my tolerance returns) that just taking a few extra puffs in each nostril provided all the pick me up i wanted. but then it dried out. I wasn't about to just eat the whole remaining cotton because in spite of the crazy doses i hear of people taking, my faith in theanine wasn't THAT extreme, but i did dampen it and squeeze a few drops into a lightbulb vape I made when i was bored for no reason. when that worked to some degree , i tore off about a quarter of the cotton (not that that tells anyone anything about dose because it was a used inhaler) and used it in place of a cotton swab to filter the binder from the several roxy 30s i then put into my sinuses. The menthol and lavender burned like the time i mixed molly and mexican tar heroin and waterlined it, and i then chewed the cotton like gum until i felt like i had actually slept last night. normally propylhexedrine makes my BP shoot up way before it actually makes my brain feel like there's any speed in it, but after also taking 300mg of caffeine and more l-theanine, even propylhex is proving to be a moderately worthwhile stimulant....

SO I write all of this because it occurs to me that there is an abundance of stimulant RCs out there, almost none of which i have personally tried, but from what I read, many of them rate too high in the psychological and/or physiological stress area. I sincerely think l-theanine could help make some of the trash ones decent and some of the ok ones actually goood.

NOTE: I am using a pure l-theanine powder, uncapped (i kinda like the taste/texture, its like unsweetened powdered sugar if that makes any sense) i...i also find letting it just melt under my tongue/ on my cheeks causes a more instant theanine effect.

apologies for spellling errors in this, my keyboard wont let me right click things at the moment and I'm bad at getting the letters to stay still enough when i look at them to actually tell exactly what words say right now

 

[f33lg00d]

Yeah man I've been doing this for years it works pretty good not as good as a benzo tho.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

I like a nice cup of tea, it gives me that relaxed calm alertness that caffeine can't alone. I never get jittery from tea alone like I would from other caffeine, maybe a little nauseous from large amounts of strong tea, but never jittery. Maybe you're onto something good, combining theanine with other stims to make them smoother & less jittery.

I suppose it depends what you mean by "not as good as a benzo", I mean I drink a lot of tea all day most days, but if I go without a cup of tea for a while I can substitute it with other caffeine that has no theanine in & not die from withdrawals or anything.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

Can't say enough good things about L-theanine imo.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

Can't say enough good things about tea, imo, the natural caffeine + L-theanine source, probably plenty of other good chemicals in there too - a few not so good as well, but they can be minimised by using good tea & brewing it properly. Overall it's supposed to contain antioxidants, good for teeth & bones, reduce risk of heart attack & stroke, it may be anti-cancer, nootropic & neuroprotective. I'm sure you wont get all those benefits from just two synthetic or extracted chemicals.

It seems very underrated in a lot of countries. It's often hell trying to find a decent cup of tea on holiday, well prepared English travellers take their own tea & travel kettle. I think I'm just going to take holidays to other countries that drink tea from now on, even if it's green tea or mint tea, or at least somewhere with an expat population.

Just made a cup of tea, will see if it takes the slight edginess off armodafinil... I might even order some theanine to try it out without the rest of the cup of tea. I see little point in the caffeine + theanine mix when I can just put the kettle on & make a brew, but other stim + L-theanine (if that's what the supplement really is) might be useful.

I did notice a cup of tea was always extra nice on an MDMA comedown, but I usually avoid it on stims due to the caffeine, straight caffeine + dirty stim (eg ephedrine) guarantees palpitations for me, the theanine might be more important though.

Tea seems to help calm any bad effects when I smoke weed too, even one time when i smoked some hash that sent me blind, tea restored my sight, no idea why I went blind from hash, possibly low blood pressure, but tea seems to cure any bad side effects from weed. It's held off whiteys & I've seen it bring people round from whiteys too. I got trolled for suggesting a cup of tea for somebody on a whitey in the cannabis forums, some american suggested benzos, then another came to back them up.

Apparently D-theanine could be produced when tea is brewed for too long with hot water, it could turn into a slightly more racemic mix if overbrewed, but L-theanine is the only natural enantiomer in tea. I can't find much on D-theanine, it may be inactive & could block L-theanine. Apparently a lot of supplements that claim to be L-theanine are a 50/50 racemic mix, if D-theanine is inactive & blocks L-theanine that'd explain why people are taking such high doses of theanine supplements for any effect.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15704209

If you drink freshly brewed tea then it's probably better than a synthetic substitute, it'll need lower concentrations to be active vs a synthetic racemic supplement & the caffeine will prevent any sedation.

That cup of hot black tea with milk did in fact work wonders for my stim jitters, even with the caffeine in it. I think I'll stick to drinking tea, not be scared of it on psychedelics & stims like I am with pure caffeine. It's just further proof that a good cup of tea solves any problem, we've known this for years in England. Maybe should stick with certain varieties with a higher ratio of theanine to caffiene while on stims, it might be time to break open my pack of Ceylon opl or have some green tea. Yorkshire Tea Gold has raised my pulse slightly, or maybe it's the spliff...

 

[f33lg00d]

A cup of green tea only has ~20mg l-theanine in it. You can go down to the local drug store and buy some, I typically dose 100-200mg. I'm brewing some green + chamomile tea rn, I love the combo. What I ment was it's calming effect isn't as strong or recreational as benzos, it's certainly better for daily use though since it doesn't cause dependence.

 

[CatchingTheDragon]

The problem with using brewed tea as a source for l-theanine, is the content is far to low especially compared to the caffeine content in it. While tea is certainly relaxing as all hell for a variety of reasons, I've heard/read over and over again that its impossible to achieve a nootropic ratio of theanine-stimulant with tea alone. Maybe if you took shade grown decaf. green tea, brewed a f ton of it and concentrated it... but that's not really tea anymore is it? mg for mg, i take about double l theanine to caffiene when mixing the two and this seems to be the avg dose ratio for most people. I sometimes take around half a gram over the course of an hour or two if i take a caffeine pill and am also drinking coffee or take another stilm if. That would be a helluvalot of decaf tea. I went through 5 g of pure theanine since saturday afternoon and didn't even have enough to counteract my morning stims today (still took about 300 mg, but i took 300 mg caffeine and some yohimbe).

So i'm not knocking tea by any means, but for neuroprotective, nootropic, stimulant mitigation/enhancement, the pure stuff is the way to go. (not to mention consistency once you find a dose you like)

 

[f33lg00d]

What do you guys find for the ceiling dose? I find taking more than 500mg at a time to make no difference.

 

[Kilfer]

What do you guys find for the ceiling dose? I find taking more than 500mg at a time to make no difference.

I found no difference between 300mg and 500mg so I would reckon that the effect plateaus somewhere between 200mg and 300mg, depending on individuals. l-theanine is one of the substances I tested during my -still ongoing- quest for a drug that would reduce stims`negative side effects while preserving the positive upper buzz. I had to rule out l-theanine for the purpose as it does not lower blood pressure, should be the opposite since the substance is purported to increase dopamine levels when used at high dosage (above 100mg) but I don't find that its effects on BP are of any significance one way or the other.

Personally I found the effects up to 500mg to be neutral while I`m under the influence of a potent and 'clean' stimulant, in this case mainly 3,4-dichloromethylphenidate (aka 3,4-CTMP), but also (in decreasing subjective potency) ethylphenidate, methylphenidate, and dextroamphetamine. Admittedly one could perhaps get different results with party stims considering that the drug's effect on serotonin is not yet well understood but I doubt it, l-theanine does not have the feel of a substance that could alter the course of a strong stimulant buzz, be it Ritalin or Ecstasy and everything between. It can however interfere (in a pleasant way) with caffeine.

Taking l-theanine when my body was clear of stims following 14 days of abstinence from any dopaminergic drug a 300mg dose provided a subtle but definitely noticeable mood lift, different from caffeine and easily recognizable as the result of somewhat elevated dopamine levels. It's pleasant but very different than a 'true' stimulant, I suppose 'nootropic-type effect' best describes it since it appears to be purely mental. There again when straight, I felt no difference between 300mg and 500mg doses, spread over 19 trials during a month, and nothing above 300mg produced any more effects than 300mg did so I tentatively concluded that once a saturated level is reached the blood brain barrier closes to any extra amounts until l-theanine levels in the brain drop below a certain threshold.

 

[ParappaTheRapper]

its true that anxiolytic/mood and focus/attention effects don't increase, but higher doses help for insomnia and knocking you out ime

 

[Crashing]

I've found myself disliking coffee, but enjoying tea. Maybe l-theanine is responsible for this phenomenon?

I do like the idea from getting it by drinking tea rather than taking a supplement. I believe the natural sources of minerals and amino acids are, for lack of a winded explanation, far more 'potent'.

 

[Mr.Dopamine]

WTF? Are there now tea merchants trying to push their goods on bluelighters?
Fkn TEA?!?! Who give a crap about tea?

 

[Kilfer]

I've found myself disliking coffee, but enjoying tea. Maybe l-theanine is responsible for this phenomenon?

I do like the idea from getting it by drinking tea rather than taking a supplement. I believe the natural sources of minerals and amino acids are, for lack of a winded explanation, far more 'potent'.

I reckon you would need 3 or 4 cups of a strong brew of black Ceylon tea to achieve nootropic effects from l-theanine. I confess it that like some of you I am a freak of nature: a tea-loving American. There's more of us than one would think. I admit that my stepmother was Welsh-born and she started serving that strong Irish Breakfast Tea from Twinings to us kids when we were 7 or 8 years old, despite my father's alarmist protests (my father was a neurologist so he naturally felt that as a physician, he had to at least attempt to intervene) but to no avail. My stepmother was head pharmacist at a large local hospital and countered that she knew drugs better than him (she usually did, except for certain esoteric drugs used in the treatment of rare neurological conditions), stating that caffeine was perfectly safe for anyone above toddler status and that Dad was just being "a stuffy Yank" about serving tea to children of school age and that it was no worse than colas consumed in industrial quantities by many children back then when energy drinks were not yet part of the picture. Dad cautiously retreated away from a possible confrontation with his assertive wife about the fact that he also disapproved of caffeinated colas for children and it if were up to him... but that ice was too thin for him to venture out on it all by his own. I have been in love with stimulants ever since those distant days, circa 1972.

The stimulation from the caffeine definitely increased my quality of life, especially at Phys Ed in school where my interest had been limited prior to that. The extra amount of energy spent during the day also greatly improved problems I had with persistent insomnia, and I feel asleep faster. Unfortunately insomnia returned during my teens and is still a serious issue 4 decades later despite generous intake of temazepam and even the occasional Seconal (obtained in Canada; docs here won't prescribe such a DEA magnet), which makes me sleep but leaves a nasty hangover in the morning.

Ordered some pure base chloral to be delivered to my company-provided flat in Montreal for when I return there after Thanksgiving. Canadian vendors won't ship Schedule IV and above to the US and this drug is Schedule IV here but in Canada it's now unscheduled (formerly Schedule IV) because it's a very common solvent used in many industrial applications and scheduling it would involve tons of extra paperwork. Still used in hospitals for inducing short bouts of sleep during neurophysiological procedures such as in the diagnosing of narcolepsy, as it's one of the few hypnotics that doesn't affect brain waves during sleep. We'll see what happens on my next trip up there.

Back to tea, interestingly enough when taken in the evening even strong tea has a calming effect on me. Not like a hypnotic or sedative, but it makes me feel... I think appeased is the best term to describe it. Like one gets when watching a bonfire in its terminal stages, when embers glow and hiss softly. I feel reassured by this vision.

 

[Smoky]

L Theanine is great. Have a bottle right here. Took it off Heroin withdrawal and helps for sleep.

 

[Kilfer]

WTF? Are there now tea merchants trying to push their goods on bluelighters?
Fkn TEA?!?! Who give a crap about tea?

It's more about a specific constituent found in tea, L-theanine which is sold as a supplement (just like GHB once was) and displays dopanergic activity. It's my opinion that it definitely belongs here, and that coming from a chronic strong stims user. You know, all teas are not created equal; there is a world of difference between run-of-the-mill gauze-flavored Salada found at Safeway and fine imports sold by people who know their stuff.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

WTF? Are there now tea merchants trying to push their goods on bluelighters?
Fkn TEA?!?! Who give a crap about tea?

You don't understand. Import some decent tea & see. I was sceptical about drinking tea while feeling the full effect of other stims, due to the caffeine, but it works. Smoothed out yesterday's armodafinil from me being a nervous wreak to god-like.

It has to be good tea though, nothing worse than the cheap stuff - larger leaves & stems accumulate toxins like fluorine & lead, they seem to have more tannins too, they're what goes into economy or foreign (not english/chinese/other tea drinking country) blends. Even with good tea, if it's not brewed properly then you'll just get overpowered by tannin.

I don't sell tea, I'm just northern English & I was totally wired on other stims yesterday. Tea is big here, some weirdos don't touch tea, but it's most people's favourite drink/drug. Even the best teas are really cheap per cup. Tea is the most popular drink in the world after water.

Theanine is the main difference between tea & other caffeine containing drinks. Caffeine is a rough stim, take too many caffeine pills, coffees or energy drinks & it's not nice at all. Drink almost unlimited amounts of tea, no problem.

It's not just about that specific constituent of tea, there are other actives in tea too, a couple of caffeine analogues & antioxidants too.

People are taking supplement combos to try to replicate the effect of a nice cup of tea, but they'll never match it & it'll probably cost more. You're going to miss all the antioxidants & other good things in tea too.

It's tragic when I go on holiday to some country that doesn't drink tea & they bring out the lipton brewed by somebody who's never drunk tea in their life.

As for who gives a crap about tea, that's about half the world, most of Asia, particularly China, Japan, Korea, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, all the Arab world, Great Britain & Ireland, half of Africa, most British commonwealth countries. Most popular drink in the world. You sound like you need a good cup of tea, it might help you with your aggression & impoliteness.

Britain wouldn't be great without tea.

 

[DrGreenthumb]

I reckon you would need 3 or 4 cups of a strong brew of black Ceylon tea to achieve nootropic effects from l-theanine. I confess it that like some of you I am a freak of nature: a tea-loving American. There's more of us than one would think. I admit that my stepmother was Welsh-born and she started serving that strong Irish Breakfast Tea from Twinings to us kids when we were 7 or 8 years old, despite my father's alarmist protests (my father was a neurologist so he naturally felt that as a physician, he had to at least attempt to intervene) but to no avail. My stepmother was head pharmacist at a large local hospital and countered that she knew drugs better than him (she usually did, except for certain esoteric drugs used in the treatment of rare neurological conditions), stating that caffeine was perfectly safe for anyone above toddler status and that Dad was just being "a stuffy Yank" about serving tea to children of school age and that it was no worse than colas consumed in industrial quantities by many children back then when energy drinks were not yet part of the picture. Dad cautiously retreated away from a possible confrontation with his assertive wife about the fact that he also disapproved of caffeinated colas for children and it if were up to him... but that ice was too thin for him to venture out on it all by his own. I have been in love with stimulants ever since those distant days, circa 1972.

The stimulation from the caffeine definitely increased my quality of life, especially at Phys Ed in school where my interest had been limited prior to that. The extra amount of energy spent during the day also greatly improved problems I had with persistent insomnia, and I feel asleep faster. Unfortunately insomnia returned during my teens and is still a serious issue 4 decades later despite generous intake of temazepam and even the occasional Seconal (obtained in Canada; docs here won't prescribe such a DEA magnet), which makes me sleep but leaves a nasty hangover in the morning.

Ordered some pure base chloral to be delivered to my company-provided flat in Montreal for when I return there after Thanksgiving. Canadian vendors won't ship Schedule IV and above to the US and this drug is Schedule IV here but in Canada it's now unscheduled (formerly Schedule IV) because it's a very common solvent used in many industrial applications and scheduling it would involve tons of extra paperwork. Still used in hospitals for inducing short bouts of sleep during neurophysiological procedures such as in the diagnosing of narcolepsy, as it's one of the few hypnotics that doesn't affect brain waves during sleep. We'll see what happens on my next trip up there.

Back to tea, interestingly enough when taken in the evening even strong tea has a calming effect on me. Not like a hypnotic or sedative, but it makes me feel... I think appeased is the best term to describe it. Like one gets when watching a bonfire in its terminal stages, when embers glow and hiss softly. I feel reassured by this vision.

It's good that tea is becoming more popular in America. A lot of Americans seem to have a really bad attitude to it, maybe because of the English & war of independence associations, or comparing it to other caffeine, but it's irrational, tea is great.

I even found there's some tea houses in US cities now, possibly mainly for British ex-pats, but still, USA might be back on my possible holiday destination list.

Tea is different to other caffeine containing drinks, since theanine counters most of the side effects. It's very common for toddlers to drink tea here in England, usually watered down weak tea with sugar. My cousin started drinking tea as soon as he was on solid foods, he's doing great now. Not heard of any bad effects of tea on children, can't be worse than sugary or artificially sweetened drinks, probably much better & certainly much better than acidic sugary caffeinated drinks like Coca Cola.

Drinking 3 or 4 good cups of tea a day seems to be very beneficial for health. Possibly 10 or more is bad, it can block some nutrient uptake from food if you're drinking it constantly.

Ceylon has some of the highest theanine content of any black tea & it seems relatively low caffeine too, it's a very relaxing type. Assam (which a lot of English blends of based on) seems to have more caffeine than theanine, has a more stimulating effect. I'm not sure theanine alone would have any nootropic effect, it's the combination found in tea that is special, you could try to replicate that with synthetics, but what's the point.

At least with tea you know it's all L-theanine, unless you made it wrong & not some synthetic 50/50 racemic mixture from a supplement, D-theanine might block L-theanine. This probably explains why people are taking supplements in much higher than natural doses from a cup of tea, but it's still active in tea.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814610011416

Coca tea is very nice too, I'm sure there's more to that than the tiny amounts of cocaine (I hate cocaine, but love coca tea), such a shame it's illegal here.

 

[f33lg00d]

I love my energy drinks. Drinking an "AMP: Focus" it's a blue can one with 117mg l-theanine, 160mg caffiene, 295mg taurine, 264mg guarana extract, and some vitamins. Anyone else know any energy drinks with l-theanine?

 

[Akbar Rabbitowitz]

I didn't know what prefix to put on this because its a post about all stimulants, and l-theanine, and is also HR in a way, but I think most of the crazy sketchy stims are mostly RCs so I labeled it that instead of Amp. feel free to move it to wherever anyone things it will do some good.

So by now everybody knows about mixing caffeine and l-theanine to make a "nootropic stack" such that, while caff. alone doesn't actually improve cognition, it will when mitigated by the theanine. this got me to wondering how and why this happens. it FELT like the l-theanine was reducing the negative strenuous effects, mentally and physically, thee jitters, racing thoughts, and as a result i was left with the positive effects of caffeine. Then i found this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16930802 literally titled "L-Theanine reduces psychological and physiological stress responses".

My resulting thought process went as follows- " if it's not a specific synergy between caffeine and l-theanine but instead a general effect l-theanine has, then caffeine should only be the tip of the iceberg in terms of what this cheap supplement can do for stimulant use".

At the time the only stimulant I had on hand was about half a point of really good mdma, and I had aready been candy flipping, rolling and taking mushrooms for the three nights prior (albeit in small doses) so 50mg intranasal mdma should have done very little in the way of making me "roll" however, in combination with l theanine, not only did i feel a stronger effect on half a point then I had on a point and a half the night before w/o a tolerance, yet none of the physiological stress that usually comes with redosing on a stimulant after having been up all night was present. it seemed very much to amplify the positives and remove the negatives of both caffeine and mdma.

I later read somewhere that l-theanine is also neuroprotective against methamp. related neurotoxicity . Starting to feel like this substance was gods gift to stimulant users. really really want to see how it modifies something like dex/adderal

Unfortunately, as I have no access to decent speed in any form, I will have to wait on that experiment, but I have used it to turn normally garbage stims into somewhat productive or at least tolerable ones.... first yohimbe, which was all i had on hand to stay awake to write a paper but normaly it destroys my ability to concentrate because i'm preoccupied by unpleasnt physiological effects- not with the l-theanine however.

My most recent test of this substance's capabilities was done with propylhexedrine. I bought one benzedrex inhaler a few weeks ago, with no intention of dismantling it because i am sensitive enough to many stimulants (until my tolerance returns) that just taking a few extra puffs in each nostril provided all the pick me up i wanted. but then it dried out. I wasn't about to just eat the whole remaining cotton because in spite of the crazy doses i hear of people taking, my faith in theanine wasn't THAT extreme, but i did dampen it and squeeze a few drops into a lightbulb vape I made when i was bored for no reason. when that worked to some degree , i tore off about a quarter of the cotton (not that that tells anyone anything about dose because it was a used inhaler) and used it in place of a cotton swab to filter the binder from the several roxy 30s i then put into my sinuses. The menthol and lavender burned like the time i mixed molly and mexican tar heroin and waterlined it, and i then chewed the cotton like gum until i felt like i had actually slept last night. normally propylhexedrine makes my BP shoot up way before it actually makes my brain feel like there's any speed in it, but after also taking 300mg of caffeine and more l-theanine, even propylhex is proving to be a moderately worthwhile stimulant....

SO I write all of this because it occurs to me that there is an abundance of stimulant RCs out there, almost none of which i have personally tried, but from what I read, many of them rate too high in the psychological and/or physiological stress area. I sincerely think l-theanine could help make some of the trash ones decent and some of the ok ones actually goood.

NOTE: I am using a pure l-theanine powder, uncapped (i kinda like the taste/texture, its like unsweetened powdered sugar if that makes any sense) i...i also find letting it just melt under my tongue/ on my cheeks causes a more instant theanine effect.

apologies for spellling errors in this, my keyboard wont let me right click things at the moment and I'm bad at getting the letters to stay still enough when i look at them to actually tell exactly what words say right now

A timely thread to which I will append my ancedotal experience. %)

L-Theanine powder just came into my meds cabinet a few wks ago.

A few hours ago I dropped 100mg 4-FA spiked with 4 mg biopirene. At 1:30 into the excursion, I added 300 mg l-theanine. Also NYCD, G-13, some wine, food, and shots of tequila. I expect to be wired up and flying above the clouds in a social setting where almost everyone will get wasted one way or another. 8(

This stack is working out just fine. Will update later.