Benzos Etizolam - First steps towards addiction

[Jabberwocky]

Hi.

Okay so here is my current situation.

I have been taking the following GABA agonists for almost 3 years now, without any noticable tolerance development and/or addiction: Oxazepam, Zolpidem, Zopiclone and very rarely Pyrazolam. Phenibut should propably be mentioned too.

None of the above has been of any concern to me as I seem to be able to control my use without any problems.
My use is targeted at diminishing anxiety and also to help with getting to sleep at night.
I dont use it everyday at all, more like 1-2 a week, with doses keept very low (at least compared to recreational doses) and I also have weeks there I dont use at all.

Based on the above, I might have been a little too secure about my own ability to control these GABA-a agonists as I didn´t see any worries about getting myself some Etizolam, with the intention of using it as the others. I thought this would be a great night time substanse as I would be able to get even better recreational effects before sleeping. Win-win situation right?

To my surprise, It doesnt look like Im able to control this substanse.
In the last few weeks I have pretty much broken every single rule that I ever had about my use of these drugs and for the first time ever, I have noticed some tolerance development.
Therefore, I have decided to take a tolerance break, which sucks as I need these drugs for anxiety and sleep and also, it takes the GABA-a receptors a long time to up-regulate to a point where one would be close to baseline - in heavy users, baseline actually seems to be impossible to reach so Im a Little concerned about getting back to where I was just a few weeks ago,

I would like some in-put regarding this break and I also have some questions which is why Im making this thread, but in order for you guys/gals to be able to answer me, I will first have to show you my use. So here it goes.

Keep in mind that I, prior to the data provided in the text below, have an almost 3 year long use of related substances which I use regulary but in doses lower than what would be considered a recreational dose for most people (like 5-10 mg of Zolpidem or 15-45 mg of Oxazepam).
So I must have some tolerance prior to this although its not much at all as I can feel as little as 15 mg of Oxazepam (or at least, could)

3 mg of Etizolam

2 days off

3,5 mg of etizolam + 5 mg Zolpidem

3 days off

3 mg Etizolam + 5 mg Zolpidem

9 days off (due to antibiotic treatment, I stayed away from all drugs except Cannabis just to make sure that I wouldn´t encounter any negative interactions)

3 mg Etizolam

3 days off

2,25 mg Etizolam + 5 mg Zolpidem

3 days off

3 mg Etizolam + 5 mg Zolpidem


Needless to say, If I keep up my current intake then the theraputical properties will soon be long gone, most likely without any chance of getting them back and even worse, I will become physically addicted.

I know that I need to take a tolerance break and even more importent, to keep my doses low and get more days without these drugs, if im going to keep up my use in the future.


My questions are the following (and yes, I do realise that these quesions are extremely difficult to give an accurate answer to)

1: How long of a break would I need to get my tolerance back to where it was prior to this shit? Im not talking about baseline 3 years ago but just where it was 3 weeks or so ago.
Im thinking 2-3 months but what do you think?

2: Is it possible that Im already past the point of no return? Dont get my wrong, I know that Im not addicted yet and I dont expect any withdrawls. At the same time, I find it possible that even after a long tolerance break, my former low dose Zolpidem or Oxazepam just wont do the trick anymore as my receptors has been stimulated to a point way beyond what Im used to, several times in just a few weeks. Or maybe the planned low dose Etizolam wont cut it in the future due to my bad decisions lately?

3: In my very short experience with this drug, I have found the following to be true and I just want to hear your thoughts regarding these statements.
Etizolam seems to be either too much or too little.
I always seem to find myself either not feeling it enough, to the point where I dont think Ill be able to sleep, or Ill find myself waking up in the middle of the night, passed out in my chair with the TV running, a sore back and only a faint memory that I felt pretty good last night. In my opinion, not worth it at all, but I think this says much more about me than the drug in question as I probably just have to find the right dose for me(which seems to operate within a very small margin) and then show some balls by sticking to that dose.

4: I have seen someone mention something about Etizolam not being as moreish as other fast acting benzos (yes, I do realise that Etizolam is in fact a thienotriazolodiazepine) but I find it to be VERY moreish. My experience with fast acting benzos is limited to a few sessions with Diazepam and Flunitrazepam back in the days so I dont really have the required experience to make the comparisment. Do you?


Im looking forward to hear from you.


Side note: I would like to mention that I know that this "tolerance problem" will come off as being not that much of a problem when seen in comparisment to some of the other threads that pop up on bluelight but to me, the point is to regain complete control again before shit escalates further and Ill be the one posting about how to get off of 20 mg a day. Dont want that!

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Wow, very well written post with very specific questions.. i dont think im up for the challenge at the moment, but ill keep this thread in the back of my mind and as others add to it i may just add a few parts.

First thing is, if you can take 3 days off in between you dont have an addiction which is a HUGE plus.
I would say avoid all etizolam and benzos for a few months like you said yourself, but you can continue on the z drug as needed at night for sleep and it should hardly effect the regulation issue unless you take a huge dose but 5-10mg zolpidem is a regular dose and you should be fine with that, even if used nightly for the time you take a break off benzos instead of just every 3 nights.. but if you only need it once every 3 nights and have no problems doing so, stick with it.

Thats as much as can answer ATM. Still not wide awake yet lol.
Good luck tho!

-HOOD

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thanks for your answer. Maybe my questions were a little too specific, since no one has had anything to say about it. I hope a bump is acceptable in this case 'cause I just did it!

 

[Harrisment]

Since Etizolam is getting to the point that it's almost impossible to find (at least in the USA), your problem may be solved for you whether you like it or not.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thats not really relevant, is it now?
I mean, obviously, I can get my hands on legal benzos too, so if I were to become addicted I would probably just misuse some other Gabaergics instead of Etizolam.
The word "solved" is pretty misfitting for this situation too dont you think? Given the fact that you are talking about running out of drugs which are capable of producing lethal withdrawls among other nasty shit.

 

[Shamanism]

Right not very helpfull and not proven to be more than a rumour.
I can order a shitload of etiz from multiple vendors in EU and haven't seen anything concrete regarding any upcoming ban and think an EU wide ban is unlikely as it is also used as a genuine pharmacuitical. Even the recently officially anounced upcoming ban on a-MT, MDPV, Al-LAD etc. is not even in effect yet..

I use them only 1-2 times a week but I used to get slurry speech and a nice buzz from 2 mg Etilaam Etizolam when I started, but now only find them to work in a more unremarkable way, sleep fine, no buzz or slurry speech fun from 2 or 3 mg. I'm not dependent will try to wait a month or two and check with the same material if effects return to previous level again. But maybe I will have stopped just in time...

But good point, why continue using etizolam when you didn't have any issues with your other regular meds?

 

[Bliss26]

Well, here are my thoughts.
-You have anxiety and regularly need benzos for sleep.
- you were able to keep your use within your self directed responsible limits before etiz
- other benzos and z drugs work great for you without being more-ish.

Why not swear off etiz and just go back to a regular dosing schedule of prescribed benzos? It's very common to need benzos a few times a week and doesn't indicate you have a problem. With the etiz out of the equation hopefully with a firm dosing amt your folly will sort itself. If not I would try holding firm to prescribed doses and maybe adding in an OTC sleep aid as well. Different mechanism of action and synergy would still get you some rest without affecting your tolly.
Maybe try: gravol, first gen antihistamines like Benedryl , melatonin, etc.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Valid questions, indeed.
My reasons for wanting to adding Etizolam into my schedule was due to several things.
-its a fast acting GABAergic, unlike oxazepam. Very useful quality when treating social anxiety. Oxazepam takes up to 2 hours to kick in.
- Its cheaper than Oxazepam
- I liked how this seemed like a very good drug for bringing down a psychedelic trip if needed. I´ve never needed to do that before and haven´t taken psychedelics for a long time due to my mental state at this time in my life but I want to do it again as a regular thing once I catch a break and I like the idea of having a drug like this ready to go, just in case. It just might have a positive effect on my trip, without even being ingested
-I read something about how it, at least in the start, causes up regulation of one specific part within the GABA receptor complex, I cant remember its name, but it was the one closely related to anxiety. Drugs like Diazepam and Alprazolam didn´t show this up regulation.
- I liked how it sounded to be more of a "feel good" drug than Oxazepam. And why not enjoy the effect of, say, 2 mg, a few hours before jumping to bed, instead of taking it 15 mins before bedtime and waking up with even more metabolites in the body. Of course, this trail of thought, is only useful if you can control the substance and as far as Im concerned, I only get one more chance with this particular drug - after the tolerance break.

Im not really that happy about the antihistamins. I dont even know why, as I dont know that much about them so I might need to do some research on that one, just to make sure that I dont want it
I already take melatonin, not everyday as Im a little concerned about how the body might reduce its own production over time with daily use. Its a great sleep aid, I like it a lot.

 

[Bliss26]

The reasons why you love etiz and why you give it 2 enthusiastic thumbs up is precisely why I think maybe you should stop, if you think it's going down the rabbit hole.
I looked at your schedule and it's well within MY comfort zone but only you know yourself so if you're breaking all your "rules" you're right to step back.
Antihistamines I don't mean as a feel good solution or potentiator, I just mean while you are trying to get your tolerance back to baseline they may be a good tool if you have insomnia for instance and your regular dose of ox isn't cutting it.

 

[keeping]

Hey mate,

from what I read, you seem to be doing fine, try to elongate the periods of abstinence whenever you feel comfortable. I was hooked on etizolam, taking it daily for two years. I still have nightmares about the withdrawals. Just because its legal does not make it safe. Stay strong buddy,

 

[Lady Codone]

As someone whose life was ripped apart by etizolam addiction, I say be careful. Very careful. Withdrawal was like nothing I've ever experienced and made opiate withdrawal feel like a walk in the park. I had a full-on psychotic break and almost checked myself into the hospital.

It's been over a year since I quit and I still suffer residual depression, anhedonia, bowel problems, loss of sex drive and a fucked up appetite/weight gain. At some point, you cannot take enough benzos to achieve the desired effect and are in constant withdrawal. Each dose makes you feel sicker, so you have to choose between tapering or quitting cold turkey.

I went the cold turkey route, and boy was that a mistake.

Be safe.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Bliss26

Its a good point for sure, given the fact that Im doing these drugs for theraputical reasons, at least as a primary target of use.
I might look into the antihistamines if needed, but Im doing pretty good with Melatonin and weed at the moment.
As I dont have any withdrawls, my sleep pattern aint any more fucked than always, but I will eventually run into some serious insomnia, in which case Ill take some Zolpidem.
I dont know how long Im going to keep this break going, depends on my anxiety and sleep pattern, but Im going to keep away from all GABAergics a few days more and then Ill start using the different drugs again, one at a time, with oxazepam being introduced second to last and Etizolam being the last one to reenter the schedule (I think Oxazepam will be about 6 weeks from now and Etizolam at least 2 months)

Keeping

Thanks mate, I will.
And no, legal status and safety has nothing to do with each other - how fucked up is that....

Lady Codone

Thanks for your reply.
It sounds like you were in for a rough ride, Im glad you came out on the other side and I sincerely hope that the "left over" depression and such will diminish with time, thankfully, chances are that they will.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I just wanted to update this as this might be of some help to me.

I went 9 days without any GABAergics, no problem, as my anxiety wasn´t that bad, sleep has been better than usual and no severe depression that could have made me think about taking some drugs in order to get some relief.

Yesterday however, was bad. Very bad!
I already had a bad feeling when I went to sleep the day before and when I got up in the morning I felt like absolute shit.
I had no "life energy" what so ever (for the lack of a better word) and I had no desires towards anything. Eating, watching tv, playing/listening to music, vaping weed, you name it, I was uncomfortably numb.

At 5 pm, shit became too much for me and I really wanted to reach for the Etizolam.
The next hour or so was an internal battle of will, one that I ended up loosing big time.

2 mg was consumed and I felt a little better.
I forgot to take into account that I was also on 7,5 mg of dexamp so I didn´t get that relaxed, "sit back in couch and relax without a worry in my mind" kind of feeling, which was what I was going for, so 2 1/2 hours later, I redosed 2 mg.

Now I was where I wanted to be and everything didn´t feel shitty anymore. Had I only stopped there but no, apparently I thought that 1,5 mg more would be suiting, so that went down to (a completely unnecessary redose!)

After that, I made myself some foods and fell a´sleep WHILE EATING (the last dose wasn´t even at peak yet). Woke up in the middle of the night with the remaining foods laying smashed on the floor. It would have made a pretty interesting story had I choked to death due to being high on Etizolam, thankfully, that didn´t happen.

I know that this post might have been more suiting for a blog but I dont have THAT much to say.
I just wanted to get this off of my chest ´cause its very embarrassing to me, and telling people about this rubs the embarrassingment right in my face, which is actually to some help for me, even if it´s only at a lesser degree, so I hope you´ll bear with me on this one.

Im going to try and continue my break as if nothing happened, with the only change being that I start from day one once again.
I intend to throw it all out if I drop the ball again during the break but only time can tell if I actually have the balls to go through with such a thing.
Im also going to invest in a time set safe in order to control reckless redosing, which will be of great help with my compulsive sugar consumption too.

 

[Bliss26]

Sour tulip - holy F! We're lucky you're still here. Passing out cold while eating is NOT good. Don't beat yourself up about your minor slip up ; almost everyone does it. The thing that CANNOT happen again is careless dosing . You need to stay safe!

Those time release safes are really pricey and if you just need it temporarily , how about a bank safety deposit box? Or a PO box ? Either one of those are very cheap, can be obtained on a whim, and preclude you from dosing just because it's there. Dosing will be possible, but a huge hassle. Just an idea.

You can do this ! Don't let this tiny slip up get you down.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Just to clarify, I didn´t wake up with food in my mouth, but with remaining food on my plate and on the floor (with the plate still placed on my tummy) so I might have sounded more dramatic than what it actually was.
Still, passing out while eating is never a good idea (or just passing out for that matter), could just as easily had fallen a sleep with my mouth full I think ´cause I was high as fuck.

Yeah, the compulsive redosing is a big problem and has absolutely no positive sides to it.
I found a time set safe priced at 50 dollar through another thread here on BL (60 with delivery) and I think this will be well worth the money in my case, as it should make the impulse based redosing much harder (I have to break it to get the drugs) and I think it might bring me some peace of mind too.
I mean, had I only had that safe yesterday, then I could have locked up the drugs when I first started to feel like taking it.
The rest of the day would have been pure hell, sure, but today, I would not have been taking any Etizolam and would not have to feel bad about it.

It already got me down, but nothing too serious.
Every time I have taken Etizolam, I have been feeling better the day after and that actually holds true today too, its just not that pronounced because of the psychological side to all this.

But yeah, I can and I will, even if it takes me a few slip ups and having to buy a safe

EDIT: Another important thing about the safe is that I can lock up my MC keys.
I would never drive intoxicated and never been close to doing so, no matter what drug I was on, but to be honest, I dont trust myself in that state of mind and even if the chance of me getting the idea of driving and actually going through with it is slim to zero, then I still think I owe myself and everyone else to spent some cash on that safe. And thanks for your input btw