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Text messages show UMass student’s struggle with drugs

To be honest guys, it bugs that shit out of me when people say stuff about the family of someone who died because of drugs. I am with you all in the believe the Drug War is futile and causes more harm including death than if we legalized and regulated drugs and being a snitch is shitty but I never would say a word about a grieving family member. Not only did they lose a loved one, they have no real grasp, for most cases, on the detriment of prohibition and buy into all the propaganda the media and government feeds us.

No one was particularly bad in this thread but I see it a lot. It is unlikely that a parent blaming a dealer, or research chemicals, or whatever, is going to have any impact on changing any policy. Sorry for a bit of a rant. Most in this thread are excellent posters and I respect you all, but just felt I needed to say it.

Agreed.

I also agree with NSA about the tunes people like to hum to.

There is no doubt about it that this is THE mature drug forum. The realist. The most professional. The one with the most knowledgeable people. But when snitching comes up everyone becomes super hard and certain posts become reminiscent of rap lyrics. I'm GL but this isn't my first account, I usually forget my info after years of inactivity. I've been reading here daily since '02.

Some people are true to that tune, most aren't completely. Most of us will never be in a situation where snitching will actually change our lives in a major way....maybe a simple possession charge will be dropped or some other small misdemeanor but nothing really substantial.

My refusal made little difference for me.....simple possession. When it comes down to real time though, I have no idea what I'd honestly do. I'll say I would never.....but I'll never know until I'm in that position.
I'm not justifying it or trying to, I'm just saying that things are much easier said than done and I really figured more people would be empathetic to that. Not sympathetic but empathetic.

We can't know until we're there.

The "hardest" guy I've ever known got caught and served two years. It was originally looking like 10+. He got out and when it would come up he would always talk about how "snitches get stitches" and he "took his like a man" and blah blah blah but the reduced sentence never came with a good explanation and the city he used to pick up from was off-limits to him. He wouldn't even drive THROUGH it with four other guys in the car. Plus his guy got busted while his case was still being prosecuted. I could be reading way too much into it but the facts never added up to me or a few others in my circle.

The point of this is just to say it's easy to say things.
 
The reason people don't like snitches and have little sympathy for them is because people realize how morally/ethically bankrupt the practice of "snitching" is. Even people who are informants recognize this, which is often why they're constantly on the defensive about why they chose to take the action they did. I don't think being "hard" has anything to do with it, really...anyone can recognize spinelessness for what it is, despite the fact that they also might fold under a similar set of circumstances.

And as far as snitching or becoming an informant is something that's nearly inevitable, no it is not (no one is really arguing that point here, but it's a line of argument that you sometimes hear). There are many cases in which people don't simply roll over...Daniel McGowan (member of "Earth Liberation Front" and subject of the documentary "If A Tree Falls", a good film if anyone gets the change to watch it) for example was facing possibly life in federal prison yet still resisted testifying against his co-defendants in his case. If law enforcement simply beats the information out of you (as is the traditional practice in quite a few law enforcement traditions worldwide) then yeah, it's pretty understandable that you'd give info, but otherwise it's strongly indicative of you having absolutely no moral or ethical qualms whatsoever about engaging in an activity, in this case drugs and drug dealing, until it's your ass on the line, after which you have no problem aiding in the persecution of others who's situation you used to be in! That's shitty and anyone can recognize that!
 
I was arrested in high school after I was informed on by someone. Yes I was incredibly angry, and I found out later on the police actually did nothing to lessen his charges after he did so.

I have never snitched. I believe that if you wouldn't want to be snitched on, then don't do it. Most police officers that offer CI jobs don't have the power to actually help out your case. Once you are charged and booked, the only person that can help you is the DA.

Also, testimony from snitches is remarkably able to be defeated with reasonable doubt in a criminal case due to the nature of the source. There are also many CIs that do it for money, this motive generally comes up in cases.

As far as the parents go of the kid that died, why are they praising the ruining of another person's life. They already lost a son, no doubt due to his own inability to control his use, why not instead go to family counseling, and grief counseling to actually work on those emotions, and be able to come to grips with their loss.

If you are ever put in a position to snitch by a cop, just remember, it is only the DA that can reduce or drop your charge. Chances are cops are lying to you. They lie constantly to help perpetuate this drug war, and snitching is no different.
 
LOL ^ Chances are the cops are always lying to you...

Boy, all this sure makes me glad I did my undergrad at a school where one of the college police dept's main job was protecting students from city and state law enforcement. They even got me out of a jam when the city police caught me right after I had found myself a nice fat half stack, although they didn't really know what drugs/how much drugs I had, just that I was somewhere I shouldn't have been... Anyways, moving on.

Regarding the whole snitching discussion, we all realize that the most beneficial aspect of extreme, draconian mandatory minimum (read: Long ass) sentencing reform has been its use in leveraging information [and guilty pleas]. In other words, when faced with 10 to life, the justice system has it pretty well figured out and established that the majority of people will do next to anything to avoid spending decades behind bars.

Even DA's will admit that there isn't any value in such long sentences, they're not effective deterrents despite what anyone says, and they cost huge amounts of money that the gov't must pay out. The purpose is simply that is gives the prosecutor's office leverage. A lot of leverage, to get whatever they want really. It takes a very special kind of person to refuse the possibility of getting a 25 year sentence reduced to six months of probation (if that)...

[Actually, to be fair, mandatory minimum type sentences also secure quick guilty pleas, enticing a defendent with the "security" of not having to spend quite as much time in prison.]
 
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To be honest guys, it bugs that shit out of me when people say stuff about the family of someone who died because of drugs. I am with you all in the believe the Drug War is futile and causes more harm including death than if we legalized and regulated drugs and being a snitch is shitty but I never would say a word about a grieving family member. Not only did they lose a loved one, they have no real grasp, for most cases, on the detriment of prohibition and buy into all the propaganda the media and government feeds us.

No one was particularly bad in this thread but I see it a lot. It is unlikely that a parent blaming a dealer, or research chemicals, or whatever, is going to have any impact on changing any policy. Sorry for a bit of a rant. Most in this thread are excellent posters and I respect you all, but just felt I needed to say it.

I tend to agree and go easy on grieving families but this case is different. Her son was also a drug dealer who was selling the same drugs that he ended up killing himself with. So no I don't have much sympathy for her blood lust.
 
I tend to agree and go easy on grieving families but this case is different. Her son was also a drug dealer who was selling the same drugs that he ended up killing himself with. So no I don't have much sympathy for her blood lust.

This is my point exactly. Their time would be better spent in counseling, and not demonizing someone for doing what their own son did. Pot calling the kettle black scenario right there.

Also, to burnt offerings. So true. I didn't snitch when I was popped for heroin and paraphernalia. They wanted the dealer not me. They tried hard to turn me out, but I stuck to my guns. I actually looked at going to jail as a way out of the opiates, however, they didn't arrest me...just gave me a warning that they were watching me.
 
How sad...
That the cops put him in a position where he felt forced to snitch sucks.
That he did snitch sucks.
And the dead drug dealer's mother is blaming the other drug dealer for her son's death. Pure irony. Total lack of acceptance of responsibility.
It's always someone else's fault.
 
Really well said slim.

I remember when I was popped for possession and paraphernalia too, but given it was a bullshit charge to begin with (I didn't have anything on me and the "drugs and paraphernalia" constituted a used syringe with brown liquid in it a few feet away from me on the sidewalk). It was funny cause the cops tried to get me to tell them who gave me the dope, when there was no dope or anyone giving me dope to begin with! Pathetic. The DA dropped the charges before I ever saw a judge. I got lucky, actually every time I've been popped for heroin I've been lucky enough to avoid any significant criminal penalties. Frankly having arrests on my record, even without any felonies or misdemeanors, is enough of a punishment given hiring practices :\
 
Really well said slim.

I remember when I was popped for possession and paraphernalia too, but given it was a bullshit charge to begin with (I didn't have anything on me and the "drugs and paraphernalia" constituted a used syringe with brown liquid in it a few feet away from me on the sidewalk). It was funny cause the cops tried to get me to tell them who gave me the dope, when there was no dope or anyone giving me dope to begin with! Pathetic. The DA dropped the charges before I ever saw a judge. I got lucky, actually every time I've been popped for heroin I've been lucky enough to avoid any significant criminal penalties. Frankly having arrests on my record, even without any felonies or misdemeanors, is enough of a punishment given hiring practices :\

so true toothpastedog. Even after you have "repaid your debt to society" you are still being punished trying to find housing and job opportunities that do not involve making minimum wage, or less (working under the table).
 
Really well said slim.

I remember when I was popped for possession and paraphernalia too, but given it was a bullshit charge to begin with (I didn't have anything on me and the "drugs and paraphernalia" constituted a used syringe with brown liquid in it a few feet away from me on the sidewalk). It was funny cause the cops tried to get me to tell them who gave me the dope, when there was no dope or anyone giving me dope to begin with! Pathetic. The DA dropped the charges before I ever saw a judge. I got lucky, actually every time I've been popped for heroin I've been lucky enough to avoid any significant criminal penalties. Frankly having arrests on my record, even without any felonies or misdemeanors, is enough of a punishment given hiring practices :\

I had a similar experience. Got arrested for a clean syringe. It got dropped but I was denied a lease on a cheap apartment last month. If that is for a dismissed case then shit I don't even want to think about an actual felony.
 
informant OD's on heroin? two thumbs up for karma.

that's just a real shitty thing to say, man.

anybody who gets into this life knows the risks. death, jail, disease, loss and yes even informants. i love how the majority of people jump on their high horse to condemn a kid who is in the throes of addiction for being an informant but have no qualms about doing equally, if not more diabolical shit to their own fucking family....the dude snitched? you know what i say, GOOD FOR HIM. in a festering cess pool of selfishness that is addiction how are those same addicts angry at such a move? so quick to point fingers and judge....smh

it has been my experience that those who take such a hard stance on snitching either 1. have snitched themselves and mentally think that if they take such an aggressive stance on snitching that they can convince themselves they didnt really snitch or trying to throw people off with bullshit 2. have never been put in a situation where they are utterly scared at a situation in which they have no control, are going thru WDs and being told they will do a long stretch of prison time....most of these people dont have money for their next hit....WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY BE THINKING ABOUT CONSULTING A LAWYER...we are hard wired to take the easiest and most selfish way to instant gratification.

some of the most cold and callous gangsters that have walked this earth have turned states evidence...gangsters with multiple bodies, but you keyboard cowboys would never do such things...right?


and i hope you're are still all for karma when it comes back around for wishing harm on another...karma goes all the way around it does not take a one way street.

itt selfish drug addicts judging other selfish drug addicts for doing selfish drug addict shit....makes sense.

you know what? I WISH SOMEONE HAD SNITCHED ON ME LONG BEFORE I HAD DONE EVEN WORSE SHIT TO OTHER PEOPLE.
 
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