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Thread: 5f-amb dosing?

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    5f-amb dosing? 
    #1
    hello, has any tired 5f amb? my friend got 5gs of 5f amb. friend is using ab pinaca right now but they sent 5g sample with it. is it the same as ab pinaca and fubinaca? or is it more strong? friend has high tolerance swim uses 228gs of herb using 30 grams of chem. Is 5f-amb stronger? i seen everybody says it is really strong please help friend thank you. swim have a milligram scale if needed. friend will try tonight will make batch but just needed more info to be safe and dosing. Dog is looking for noid to knock him out and put him to sleep. ab pinaca does the trick but friend want something different, so can you help with any info on 5f amb? thank you
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    #2
    Bluelighter Toz's Avatar
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    Don't go swimming while feeding drugs to your dog dude (the acronym is not allowed here)

    5F-AMB seems to be the strongest cannabinoid ever produced if the reports are right. Nobody will be able to tell you accurate dosing, this is individual and needs to be tried. I recommend vaporizing pure powder on foil first to test potency, of course starting with a minimal amount such as 0,5mg and work your way up from there. Once you've found a dosage that fits it's easy to do the math and find out the optimal amount of plant material.

    Sorry I could not be of more help with this one, I haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
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    #3
    Hey there, I was wondering if you happened to run across the answer to your question?
    I personally would like to know the dosage to make it somewhat mild, this (5F amb) or either Mdmb-Chminaca.
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    5F-AMB Evaluation 
    #4
    My friend Jakob tested 5F-AMB last night. He's had a few years daily use of 5F-AKB48, 5F-PB22. He's also tried AB-CHMINACA and MMB-CHMINACA.

    His rationale for testing 5F-AMB was to find out if it produced as much side-effects as 5F-AKB48 at equivalent doses.

    It could be reasonably said that 1mg 5F-AMB = 10mg 5F-AKB48.

    Theory is that the Fluorine atom might be causing toxic symptoms and even cumulative toxicity.

    Since both these products have only one Fluorine atom attached to identical local structure, the logic is that ten times more potency will enable ten times lower doses meaning ten times less Fluorine atoms.

    Yet, the arrangements of this Universe are cruel.

    Despite using less than 1/10 the amount of 5F-AKB48, here are the succinct points of Jakob's report to me this morning:

    0. The use was after 11:00P outside in the dark cool air.
    1. The dose: a few nearly invisible grains were stirred onto the surface of some tobacco. Normal dose of 5F-AKB48 would be about 15mg. This was no more than 1mg.
    2. The effect comes on fast but not overwhelmingly so. A bit slower than 5F-AKB48 and much faster than AB-FUBINACA.
    3. The duration was shorter than 5F-AKB48 but longer than the 5-minute reports elsewhere on other forums.
    4. The head-high is 'cleaner' and much stronger than 5F-AKB48, yet at the small dose tested it actually resembles 5F-AKB48 quite a bit. The quality factor is very high - higher than AB-FUBINACA. Far higher.
    5. It seemed easy on the lungs during use (illusion).
    6. The next morning, it was found that even though the weight dose was only 1/10 the usual amount of 5F-AKB48 to achieve slightly stronger effect, despite this much smaller consumption poor Jakob's lungs were nearly destroyed. Even after a day of nebulizing 3% H2O2 and taking exercise, it is now evening and my friend reports by messenger that his lungs are still in awful shape.
    7. During the next day, the faint yet constant toxic stink on sweat was noticeable. It's a similar but less offensive odor as that left by pyrolized 5F-AKB48. It's now 9:34P and Jakob is reporting via messenger that he can still smell the stink on his sweat.
    8. Jakob has a weak immune system and mild yet chronic Candida (yeast) infection - oral and intestinal. Up until now, older cannabinoids such as 5F-AKB48 used the previous night left an obviously thicker-coated white tongue in the morning due to yeast overgrowth. Yet that increased growth from night-before use of those old cannabinoids was mild. The morning after 5F-AMB, Jakob was shocked that his tongue had grown a thick white forest - never seen before at such a level of overgrowth.

    From his experiences I must conclude that 5F-AMB is more than 10x as pulmotoxic as 5F-AKB48, yet it is only 10x more potent. Despite his history of 'noid use - even Fluorinated ones - my friend is shocked to report that pyrolized 5F-AMB reaches an exponentially higher level of destructiveness in the lungs than anything else. Its increased potency cannot begin to compensate. Yet it is peculiar because it reminds me that in the case of so many androgens - methylated especially - toxicity seems to rise not as a result of structural vagaries in the molecules but seems directly proportional to potency.

    Further, 5F-AMB's pyrolysis products smell nearly as bad as 5F-AKB48's and leave a similar toxic feeling for at least 24 hours after a single dose.

    It seems that replacement of Adamantanyl group didn't help. It is now obvious the toxicity comes from the Fluoropentyl group (pyrolysis).

    Tonight my friend will do 'safer' testing of 5F-AMB: gently evaporated in a crack-pipe using a low-temperature regular yellow-flame Bic lighter.

    If even that is too problematic he will buy a replacement nebulizer for his failed unit and test 5F-AMB dissolved in DMSO and nebulized - which he reported worked well with 5F-AKB48 in testing last week.

    The case of 5F-AMB as super-replacement for the older, less-potent 5F-AKB48 reminds me of another case - this one in the steroid black-market: the introduction of Metribolone (Methyltrienolone, methyltrenbolone) as a hyperpotent (microgram to single milligram doses) replacement for Trenbolone. A good dose of Trenbolone is 100mg/day, and a good dose of Metribolone is 0.5mg - 1.0mg/day.

    Yet even at 100x the potency and thus 1/100 the dose, at the equivalent effect Metribolone is still Hellishly more liver-toxic than Trenbolone or even methylated Dianabol.
    So much more toxic that nobody can keep taking it regularly.

    Trends like these do not bode well for the advancement of biochemical science.

    The liver damage caused by strong steroids - methylateds in particular - is caused by them triggering excessive cell growth which causes bile duct occulsion, enzyme elevations, etc. No matter how the molcules are restructured, their anabolic potency correlates with this 'toxicity'. In this case, it is androgen-receptor-mediated-toxicity, so the both the wanted and unwanted effects are tied together.

    Now it is time to talk about a new kind of toxicity: Hybrid Toxicity. I'm not talking about all the evils done to receptors and the symptoms of agonism and withdrawal produced by such strong drugs. I am also not talking about the non-receptor 'systemic' toxicity of these cannabinoids. It's the worst nightmare when just like steroids, the desired actions & effects (receptor agonism or other activities) cause a multiplicative increase in non-receptor (systemic) toxicity and vice-versa.

    In addition, like the heavy metals it seems these 5F cannabinoids cause Cumulative Toxicity. It means that just like nuclear radiation, the victim won't necessarily notice toxicity in the first few doses or even hundred. But that after a limit is passed, toxic symptoms will get worse with each dose. That limit depends on the individual's genetics, diet, health and previous exposures. No matter how much time is left between doses - even years - for the body to recover. Jakob can't use 5F-AKB48 any more - now just one or a few once-a-day doses produce a level of toxic symptoms that last for days and whose magnitude equals the worst at the end of a long, heavy run.

    Even just one dose does that now, no matter how long it has been since the last. Days or months.

    Unfortunately, the 5F cannabinoids can cause all six toxicities:

    1. Receptor Toxicity due to overdose/withdrawal; not dependent on Fluorination but Fluorination increases potency enough to make it much more likely. Receptors mostly recover after a few weeks of abstinence.

    2. Systemic Toxicity due to non-target receptor [CB1 & CB2] interactions. 5F-UR144 shows this unreliably in the kidneys, yet UR-144 does not. Yet the tetramethylcyclopropane group is blamed despite the fact that UR-144 has it too. Maybe someone can find the plain UR-144 kidney-tox cases that I can't.

    2.1 Pyrolytic Toxicity caused by the burning of these fluoronoids and affects the lungs worst. They are converted into many toxic chemicals when burned including Hydrofluoric Acid, Perfluoroisobutene and Fluorophosgene. These are chemical weapons - some worse than used in WWII. Many SCs have evaporation temperatures in air that are higher than their thermal decomp / pyrolytic temps.

    2.2 Nonpyrolytic Toxicity caused by the unmangled drug. Even without pyrolytic degradation, some cannabinoids are systemically toxic.

    3. Cumulative Toxicity caused by the total amount of drug consumed over any period of time. Nearly irreversible and becomes more irreversible with each dose. It's the increasing damages that can't be fixed, so they build up.

    4. Hybrid Toxicity
    caused by the additive/multiplicative toxicity when two or more simple toxicities are affecting the body simultaneously. The results of Hybrid Toxicity are larger than the sum of all the concurrently-present simple toxicities.

    5F Cannabinoids cause all six types of toxicity when smoked. When taken via some other route not involving degradation, receptor-tox can be expected at the least.

    The unanswered question so far: if taken without degradation, do the 5F cannabinoids cause cumulative or hybrid toxicity?

    Do not be fooled by forum reports from folks who claim to have used 5F or Fluorobenzyl cannabinoids all day every day for years with nothing but mostly-reversible receptor maladaptations to show for it at the end. Even individuals with pre-existing low-level sicknesses or weak constitutions can use 5Fs for a while without suffering the obvious cumulative symptoms because the immediate toxicity is low. It's what happens after the limit is passed where it gets ugly. No matter how healthy or sick the user was before starting, when the threshold limit is passed then toxic symptoms will worsen quickly after that.

    As these toxicities accumulate, those who previously thought the 5Fs were mostly or completely 'OK' because they could use them often will change their tune. The peculiar thing is that despite the low acute toxicity - excepting CB-receptor effects - the long-term cumulative pyrolytic toxicity is horrendous. Even non-pyrolytic toxicities might become a problem with time but that needs testing.

    Thanks to DuPont's Teflon cookware and the many animal and human tests, we know that fluorocarbon pyrolysis yields a vast array of toxic products. We also know that the toxicity of these Fluorocarbon thermal decomposition products is highly cumulative: "The cumulative effect of repeated exposures is much more toxic than a single equivalent exposure.". The first page of Google is full of hits. Of all the organs affected by these pyrolytic Fluorocarbon products, the lungs are destroyed quickest of all.

    The World awaits a high-CB1 activator without the use of halogens in the molecule. ADAMANTYL-THPINACA is one of a few potentials.

    Meanwhile, a vast number of people are adding cumulative Fluorotox doses to their totals.
    Just like nuclear radiation: glowing with REMs, Sieverts, Grays which incidentally cause over 90% of tobacco-related cancers - mostly due to accumulated Polonium-210 and its beta rays in the lungs.
    Once your badge turns black you're outta the plant - cumulative exposure.
    One of 5F-AKB48's aliases is Fukushima and after the disaster at that plant, workers could only spend short times in the building due to cumulative radtox.
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    #5
    My friend Jakob had a shorter report for me today.

    Even carefully yellow-flame-vaporized in a crack pipe, 5F-AMB is vicious on the lungs the next day, he said.

    He also reported that in the case of day-after-vaporization [relative to day-after-smoking], that the toxic smell on sweat the next day was 1/3 less intense than smoking and did not smell so bad.

    Perhaps cold nebulization might be required.
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    #6
    Jakob just sent me a few more comments for today - he vaporized 5F-AMB last night.

    It's been only a few days, but Jakob is already noticing the next day swollen feet, lung issues, sweating.

    He's had these issues too with 5F-AKB48, but 5F-AMB produces stronger symptoms especially the next day.

    Despite its much higher (10x) potency than 5F-AKB48, 5F-AMB at effect-equivalent dose produces much worse acute and next-day side-effects.

    Its only advantage is the much lower dose means less stink on the sweat, and the 5F-AMB pyrolysis stink is so much less foul than that produced by 5F-AKB48 pyrolysis.

    5F-AMB really is the end of the road; in fact a big red STOP sign where the road ends and a cliff starts.

    The future of Cannabinoids will rely on healthy molecules free of halogens and preferably Nitrogen too.

    By its brutal effects, 5F-AMB shows with superb clarity the 'final destination' of those who pursue more-potent full agonists at any cost.

    That destination is an ugly place.
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    #7
    My friend Jakob stopped adding new 5F-AMB to the crack pipe and is now down to brownish-colored residue.

    His report today brings a few new details:

    Even though his doses are down to very small amounts, the effects and toxicities are still very strong.

    The residue is brown and has an odor, though only a weak smell. The smell is different from 5F-AKB48 but strangely similar.

    The change to a brown liquid/residue and the new odor mean that 5F-AMB is not stable in air for thermal vaporization.

    Considering their molecular weight and general structure, I am confident to say that most related synthetic cannabinoids are also not stable in air for thermal vaporization.

    5F-AMB requires cold vaporization, transdermal [DMSO], oral or rectal administration.

    Jakob's ultrasonic nebulizer died last week before he could test 5F-AMB in it.

    He did however test 5F-AKB48 dissolved in 90% DMSO / 10% H2O and it worked well, so assumes that 5F-AMB will also work well.

    When he receives some funds owed to him within the next week, he will buy another of the same nebulizer that died last week.

    The dead nebulizer took ten days to arrive.

    When he receives his new nebulizer, he will dissolve the 5F-AMB in 90% DMSO and test it.
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    #8
    My friend Jakob received a second shipment of 5F-AMB very recently.

    Last night he tested it once more in the crack pipe, but this time held the lighter flame a full 1" below the bowl. He also loaded a large mass of 5F-AMB - about 500mg - into the bowl to ensure a large pool of liquid. This is both to ensure that maximum vapor is produced at minimum temperature and to prevent overheating by ensuring a large thermal mass with high temporal latency. He took very special care to provide only enough heat to melt and barely generate some vapor.

    The temperature was held so low that there was not really enough vapor produced to make much of an effect. Unlike all the other tests, this time the 5F-AMB remained clear and he reports that by the light of next day, the remainder was nearly clear - a light straw colour. Unfortunately, after every draw he felt this drug doing something terrible to his lungs. He's spent all of today with a nasty cough and breathing trouble nearly as bad as previous tests which overheated the product.

    The characteristic day-after odor on his sweat however, is barely detectable after this test at about 15% the intensity of previous tests at higher temperature which produced brown/black in the bowl due to pyrolysis. That odor is the exact same smell he detected each day-after in the crack pipe - after overheating in the previous tests produced brown and black residue. It's the smell of 5F-AMB pyrolysis products.

    About 15% of that pyrolysis still occurs even using the absolute minimum heat to produce a useful quantity of vapor.

    At such a minimum temperature, 5F-AMB easily begins converting to extremely toxic, metabolically-resistant pyrolites that stink on the sweat and have vile toxicity. Unlike many other compounds, 5F-AMB begins producing these products at temperatures so low that the liquid is still water-clear or barely straw-yellow-tinted. It does not have to burn brown or black. If it is overheated and turns brown or black, the user can expect a strong toxic stench on sweat and breath all next day.

    These pyrolites have an average half-life of ~22h and they cannot be metabolized, as even the tiniest amount consumed produces the characteristic odor on sweat and breath which is still detectable after 24h. The only way for a body to rid itself of these toxic products is passive secretion on sweat and breath. Even slow metabolism would suffice to break down the sub-milligram quantity consumed with rapidity. Certainly there could be some metabolism but that metabolism is much slower than passive excretion and contributes very little if anything to the elimination rate of 5F-AMB's pyrolites.

    From this latest test, it is extremely likely that 5F-AMB is directly toxic to lung cells [pulmonary toxicity], and its pyrolites are also very likely responsible for a portion of that toxicity. The worst part is that the pyrolites keep circulating for so long. Circulating through the bloodstream over and over and over and over and over again, each time passing through the lungs and producing a long, drawn-out poisoning. Nothing can be done to accelerate the excretion process since the pyrolites are fat-soluble. Drinking large volumes of water will not help. The victim must patiently wait for the slow process of passive excretion to gradually drain these toxic pyrolites out of his body.

    Considering the very low temperature of this last test, it is now impossible to avoid the conclusion that 5F-AMB undamaged by heat is the prime cause of lung toxicity, since there just does not seem to be enough pyrolites produced to cause such bad lung problems. In either case, both 5F-AMB and its pyrolites display unique and very potent toxicity to the lungs and the pyrolites systemically. The potency of this lung toxicity is so high that a single milligram causes the awful next-day symptoms. The constant dry barking cough, the feeling that fluid cannot be expelled from the lungs and an inability to breathe 'normally', 'fully inhale'.

    It is so risky that Jakob does not even want to test oral or transdermal 5F-AMB because it is very likely that the pure product is producing lung toxicity.
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    #9
    I just received an IM from Jakob - it's 10:22P PST - both our local time.

    He dissolved ~1g of 5F-AMB into ~10mL of 90% DMSO / 10% H2O - unfortunately premixed with 10% water by the manufacturer and impossible to separate due to DMSO's hygroscopicity.

    Stirred with his finger, it completely dissolved in two minutes of stirring.

    He rubbed the solution on the entire front half of his neck with his index finger at 10:02P PST.

    That's it.
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    #10
    It's 10:37P PST and I just received another IM from Jakob:

    "Sorry I forgot to tell you one minor effect was immediate: in about five seconds after applying the DMSO+5F-AMB solution, my neck felt warmer in the areas applied. Like a weaker version of RUBˇA535."

    "I went to the kitchen at 10:25P to cook dinner; walking felt different - discoordinated"

    "Water was heating up to boil pasta at 10:30P. That feeling. The feeling of a tidal wave of effects rushing in"

    "From that feeling itself came the anxiety of the unknown dosing protocol and its potential result: a massive overdose."

    "At 10:34P the water couldn't boil fast enough and I realized that dinner was to be aborted. Ran around the kitchen dumping the water and putting everything away."

    "At 10:43P I checked my neck with fingertip and found it 90% 'dry' of the DMSO+5F-AMB solution. DMSO does not evaporate at skin temperature. About 90% of the solution - 90% of the 5F-AMB total dose - has been absorbed through skin. It's not uniform - some areas of skin are completely 'dry' and others are still a bit 'damp'.

    "All dosed areas should eventually absorb 100% of the solution - the current nonuniformity is due to variable absorption rate. Some areas of skin are faster than others at absorbing DMSO solutions."

    That's all he wrote so far to me on his transdermal 5F-AMB test.
    Last edited by Isochromium; 19-07-2015 at 07:53.
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    #11
    I smoked 1,5g 5F-AMB so far and never had any issues like this. This is one of my the best noids! It always takes me to another place with speed of light My lungs are quite OK, my physical performance is excellent (especially after 3-fpm ). I can smoke it (5F-AMB) whole day every 30 minutes, I know, sounds crazy, but maybe I mutated, who knows?
    For the sake of peace I will write what used during the last year (I had maybe 2-3 days w/o noids during this time).
    APICA 2g
    5F-AKB–48 1g
    5F-PB22 1g
    AB-FUBINACA 1g
    BB-22 1g
    STS–135 4g
    THJ-018 1g
    THJ-2201 10g
    AB-CHMINACA 5.5g
    MMB-CHMINACA 2.5g
    5F-AMB 1.5g
    That means about 85mg daily of any kind of noids above.

    EDIT:
    This can be strange phenomenon, but I have feeling that I just feel better and better rather than getting worse.
    Last edited by Jazgot; 27-07-2015 at 00:28.
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    Contaminated 5F-AMB 
    #12
    I sent a message to my friend Jakob telling him about your good experience on 5F-AMB, and he replied as below:

    "There is a vendor selling a highly-toxic, contaminated product labelled as "5F-AMB".

    "It is a popular, trusted vendor who added it to their stock as a new product early this month (July 2015)."

    "The product looks 'clean': a nearly-white powder just a bit darker than 'pure white' with no colour tint and is quite uniform in appearance. It has no odor and melts uniformly and all at once into a clear liquid."

    "It is so badly contaminated that the potency is very low because the majority of the product is contaminant."

    "There is a very good chance that the entire content of the product is in fact another chemical; likely a product of missynthesis since it does have slight cannabinergic activity with potency about 1/3 less than 5F-AKB48."

    "Doses of this contaminated product required to produce a cannabinoid effect are abnormally high: 10mg - 20mg."

    "The effects are strange and do not resemble any reports of 5F-AMB."

    "The toxic symptoms last for three days after a single small dose (1-5mg) and include a toxic stink on sweat and breath still noticeable on day three, paleness, breathlessness, a peculiar and very characteristic barking dry cough and terrible malaise."

    "The lung injury produced by vaporizing even a tiny amount of this product at the absolute minimum temperature is serious and recovery is slow and incomplete. The dry barking cough and breathlessness - inability to fully inhale - is still present a week after halting use."

    "In addition, for two-three days after a single tiny dose the face is very pale and energy conversion seems to have been cut down drastically. The slow recovery from toxicity resembles Fluoroacetate poisoning which coincidentally takes four days to eliminate."


    Jakob has asked me to post the vendor's name but unfortunately I cannot due to the rules of this forum.

    Perhaps I will PM an admin and request permission due to the extreme and unusual toxicity of what that vendor is selling as "5F-AMB".
    Last edited by Isochromium; 27-07-2015 at 02:22.
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    #13
    first: i have tried 5f-amb and it was definetly the strongesst and the worst noid ive ever done. in fact it was so bad and so strong that it made me quit synth noids altogether, after being addicted to them for quite a long time. i´m VERY experienced with hard drugs and rc´s, and, even after lots of experience with things like 5-meo-dmt, i´d still say, this stuff is the woorst and heaviest drug i´ve ever come across.
    i had multiple near-death-experiences with it, and i´m sure i really almost died at two of this occasions. i would have called an ambulance, but i couldn´t, cause i couldn´t stop puking/convulsing.

    to isochromium: i do believe what you write about the effects of that stuff, but i doubt the scientific relevance of many of the more specific claims you´re making. we need more proof.

    in the end, my statement is: stay away of synthetic cannabinoids. the first generations were (sometimes) somehow like smoking weed, the new generation is something completely different. they may be working at cannabinoid receptors, but what they´re doing there has NOTHING in common with cannabis.
    i had been taking drugs for 14 years when i got hooked on noids, and i really do believe that shit has been worse for me then 3-4 years of mdpv abuse. physically and mentally. mostly physically....

    please remember: it IS possible to go back to weed, it worked for me after smoking up to 1 gram of 5f-pb-22 daily, for weeks... it will be hard, you´ll feel like shit for quite a long time, but: in the end you´re off that chinese mystery powder. it´s worth it.
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    #14
    None of what you write about were issues for my friend.

    He was very specific in his messages to me that the toxicity of the product he purchased labelled as "5F-AMB" was completely unrelated to CB-receptor effects.

    Do not confuse the two.

    Nobody else other than one forum poster on another forum who was hit by the same toxic batch reported any of these unusual and totally unique toxic aftereffects.
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    #15
    @stimulant: Have you used it with alcohol or other substances?
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    #16
    no, i didn´t
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    #17
    @stimulant: So it looks like a classic overdose, I never had issues like this, because I very carefully dosing, and you are experienced user, so it looks to me a little suspiciously. Have you used volumetric dosing? How big your dose was?
    I'm very experienced noid user and drug user at all (over 24 years of experience with everything what can you probably imagine ), and trust me, I will newer ever try to use things like 5F-AMB without a decent weighing. For example amount of 5F-AMB that looks like a small crystal of sugar is way too much for unexperienced users (this will be hard overdose for them, not just bad trip), or for experienced but with alcohol and some other drugs. Say 200-300μg should be OK for the beginning if you have good tolerance after more classic noids, if not, you should start with doses like 25-50μg. I can even smoke 3mg of it (this is very hard experience for me), but only because I used quite a lot of AB-CHMINACA (5.5g) and MMB-CHMINACA (2.5g) before 5F-AMB. Noids for example like 5F-AKB-48 are simply too weak to build reasonable level of tolerance for safe use of 5F-AMB without the decent laboratory weight or without volumetric weighting.
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