Heroin Is my brother smoking heroin again?

[assholery]

My brother first started smoking heroin around 5 years ago. I lived with him during this time for about two years, it was incredibly hard to watch, I felt helpless. He had 13 grand in savings he spent on it, he started stealing from the cashier at work even though he made great money. When his girlfriend went to rehab and my boyfriend moved out it left just the two of us. Cause he couldn't deal with his girlfriend leaving without saying anything he had the genius idea "hey, i'll just switch to meth" and I saw him have meth hallucinations and really scare the shit out of me in an entirely new level. He lied to me constantly.

Our lease was up and I couldn't keep living like that. I told my parents about it and my mom had him live with her. He started suboxone. I wasn't living with him anymore so I didn't really know if he wasn't doing heroin anymore.

The next few years he seemed to be doing really well. Hanging out with my family (mom, little brothers and a sis), helping around the help, getting up at dawn to help my disabled brother with his diaper changes and out the door to the bus.

He said was really accumulating suboxone so he would never run out, he had a good stock.

It's been over 3 years, him and that girl kept getting back together and breaking up...on and off...and it recently ended for good.

He turned 26, so he has to be on his own health care plan and all of us a sudden all of his suboxone stash is gone (assuming he sold it). He is asking for money a lot more frequently from everyone, even a 13 year old brother. He recently sold a bunch of shit (tv, car, phone, weights) and is looking for more to sell. He doesn't have rent but he is always asking for money despite having a full time job. He says the money is for "suboxone" and that he is paying off lots of traffic tickets from the past so he doesn't get arrested.

He is constantly in the bathroom when he comes to my place, he says he is constipated. I know the disgusting smell of heroin and I have smelled it in there multiple times after he uses it.

Today he said he couldn't return this extension chord at walmart (where the fuck did he get that) because he doesn't have an ID. He wanted me to go in and return it and says I could keep some of the cash. I put my foot down and told him he is sick and needs help. I love him and I will not help him ruin his mind and body anymore. This means absolutely no helping to get cash or anything that could be turned into cash. He always claims it is for suboxone but that's just an excuse. He totally denied having a problem, saying I'm writing him off as a junkie and I should trust him. I have been catching him in so many odd lies.

I love my brother. I'm just not sure what to do. He's been smoking it for 5 years I'm worried he'll still be a zombie in 20 years at the age of 40+ with the maturity of a teenager. I called my Mom and told her that there is no way he is not using. We are going to go see an addiction therapist (my mom, dad and sister) to see what kind of action we should take because my mom is probably enabling him.

I just want to know that I'm reading the signs correctly: lying, selling everything, always in the bathroom, always out of cash

He needs help but he won't admit it....so you can't help someone that doesn't want it right?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[tacodude]

You sound like you're struggling to defeat denial a bit..... You know the answer yet you seek reassurance you are not mistaken. You smelled it in the bathroom after he used it. Even if you throw out his behavior that is one thing you and him can't deny.

It seems likely based on your story, but no one here can tell you for sure. Only catching him or him being honest will give you your confirmation.

 

[cj]

Well in his defense suboxone is crazy expensive I pay 250 a month even with insurance. If his prescription plan sucks than it could be way more expensive like 500+. Like taco said we have no idea if he is using or not. If he is than you need to show some compassion that tough love bullshit addiction counselors often push is a double edge sword. It will either force him into a rehab or he will die go to jail very quickly. Even if you coerce him into treatment the odds are stacked against recovery. Especially since coming off long term sub use is horribly brutal. We are talking months of withdrawal. Bottom line is he needs your family's help and compassion not scorn or judgement. Talk to him about methadone he's already on maintenance so there's nothing to lose by trying other options.

 

[assholery]

Yeah, I think I get in denial so I don't have to deal with it.

Believe me, I know that love is the answer, not forcing him to do anything.

He makes 1440 a month after taxes approximately. Doctor dropped down the visits to once every 3 months. His script is $400. He is 26. Has no rent, no car expenses. Surely at some point my family getting together and making an agreement that we are not giving him any $ or anything that can turn into $ isn't unreasonable. Isn't that the first rule with addicts? Also making an agreement that he should be paying for his own food and a few hundred for rent isn't incredibly outrageous....Ground rules are better, rather than ignoring the problem, that's what the logic is saying in my head anyhow.

He also has tried methadone in the past. It just upped his tolerance, still smoked H after getting his methadone dose in the morning.

Essentially I don't see how letting him call the shots is going to be good for anyone involved. How can a diseased mind help someone get well.

 

[inmfh4488]

for me, i can tell if someones high by how often they smoke and how much they enjoy cigarettes. to me its the all seeing eye

 

[jones-in_J]

Im the same way when I dong want to see something... with relationships. ... in so many areas of life

you know hes doing it, do what you have to do to protect yourself not just physically but emotionally from it

good luck

I was the junkie of my family, so I understand where youre coming from though from a diff peespective.

 

[The Doc.]

If he doesn't pay rent then he us being enabled big time I think a bit of tough love is in order in my opinion. Its going to be hard to get his mom on board with cutting him off but one way to see where his money is really going is to help him set up a financial plan so he doesn't run out of money so often. Just tell him hey why don't we set you up with a financial plan so you can pay for your Suboxone and necessities first then see how much money you got left over to play with. Act like your trying to help him and if he starts refusing or getting defensive then ask him what is up and that you are noticing things are not adding up.

If you can't get through to him subtle like this
You need to show tough love I'm a strong believer in tough love. An addict doesn't react to people being loving, caring, and compassionate they take your trust and lie to your face while they continue to use making you look like a idiot for trusting them. Addicts are sick people who need lots of help which sometimes us as a family simply can't give him so we need to force him to think about things I don't want to say force him into rock bottom but more so, showing him the bottom so he understands where he is headed.
Good luck with everything keep coming back here for support there are many smart people here at BL who can help you out.

 

[tacodude]

Don't switch to methadone he will never get off.... Suboxone is a great choice, but it should eventually be weened off of by slowly lowering the dose to no dose. Buphinoriphin or w.e binds to a unique opiate region that leaves out desirable as it's supposed to build Torrance less or dependency less or something from one place I read. Everyone I know on or knowing someone on it says they end up cracked out or just strung out.

Edit: just read your post following and it seems you know what's up. Paying rent and food is not unreasonable and if he can not handle it there is public support as difficult as it may be to get. Just make sure you don't put any focus on the drugs and just the irresponsible behavior. It may seem the drugs make it worse, but it's his irresponsibility making the drugs a problem. There are functional heroin users that know when to stop, but not many fall in this category. In fact barely any

 

[The Doc.]

^^^ wat?

 

[Freon]

You already know the answer to this question. I wish u luck because I know it's not easy dealing with people like us. We're selfish beyond belief.

 

[tacodude]

^^^ wat?

People I've known to take methadone never get off. Usually they are on a high blocking dose (75+ mg is last I saw) that they usually wait all day for the next one as negative symptoms insue especially when they try to continue to abuse other opiates. I have never seen someone successfully quit with methadone, but it does not mean that it does not happen. Subs I know get used long term sometimes abused, but it seems less likely.

I also believe it was this receptor below that was responsible for bupes unique effect, but I'm not sure.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nociceptin_receptor

 

[cj]

Don't switch to methadone he will never get off.... Suboxone is a great choice, but it should eventually be weened off of by slowly lowering the dose to no dose. Buphinoriphin or w.e binds to a unique opiate region that leaves out desirable as it's supposed to build Torrance less or dependency less or something from one place I read. Everyone I know on or knowing someone on it says they end up cracked out or just strung out.

Edit: just read your post following and it seems you know what's up. Paying rent and food is not unreasonable and if he can not handle it there is public support as difficult as it may be to get. Just make sure you don't put any focus on the drugs and just the irresponsible behavior. It may seem the drugs make it worse, but it's his irresponsibility making the drugs a problem. There are functional heroin users that know when to stop, but not many fall in this category. In fact barely any

Your wrong about bupe causing less tolerance and dependancy. Bupe withdrawals are just as brutal as methadone especially after a few years as OP says his bro was on. I disagree with your advice about weening off as well. His brother has relapsed and is in a crises if anything he needs a higher dose of bupe. Tapering is hard enough when your stable it's impossible with your life in disarray.

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Sounds like he might be...it's easy when you are on Subs to just quit taking them and go back to your drug of choice, unforutanetly I do it way to often. This is why I have thought about methadone, it's waaay harder to go and get high on your drug of choice(you have to go to the clinic everyday, pass drug test to get take homes, they offer personal/family counseling). Not everybody who gets on Methadone gets strung out, it does help people, that's just giving something a bad name for people who it has helped(and it's helped many.) Both Subs and Mehtadone are very hard to quit, but usually if the person WANTS to get off either one, a taper IS possible, you are not STUCK one either one for the rest of your life, one just has to set up a taper plan... the main thing with methadone is people mixing it with large amounts of benzo's and if he started doing that it would be very obivous to everyone in the family as he would start nodding out in mid sentence... Just saying. Obiously he has stopped using the Subs, and is getting high again from the behaviour you described..Subs help with cravings, but IMO not as much as Methadone. It got to the point w/subs for me you just feel normal all the time and you know you can quit taking for a few days and get high again.. Both have their pros and cons IMO.

 

[tacodude]

I'll just add my recommendations are for quitting not maintenance. At some point it's not mantinance and just dependency. Of course taking any opiatr, even codeine, for years there will be wd symptoms. I've said my points and I'm out

 

[Smoky]

You seem to know, but what can you do?

I'm sorry to hear you are going through this. There might not be a thing you can do if he is not ready to change. Although, you can communicate with him, and speak your truth to him about your concerns/feelings, even if you can't change the outcome of what comes from speaking with him.

Detaching is so very difficult to do with someone addicted that one loves. I've been addicted, and I have also lived with addiction all around me as a child, and as an adult when clean. My roommate is in it right now. It can seemingly become the central organizing principle in the house and suck everyone into the user's vortex of suffering. Knowing where to draw the line between enabling him while still holding compassion can be very draining, and somewhat blurry.

Confronting him in a loving way, without being codependent or getting sucked into the problem might help you personally to let go, for now.

 

[The Doc.]

Sounds like he might be...it's easy when you are on Subs to just quit taking them and go back to your drug of choice, unforutanetly I do it way to often. This is why I have thought about methadone, it's waaay harder to go and get high on your drug of choice(you have to go to the clinic everyday, pass drug test to get take homes, they offer personal/family counseling). Not everybody who gets on Methadone gets strung out, it does help people, that's just giving something a bad name for people who it has helped(and it's helped many.) Both Subs and Mehtadone are very hard to quit, but usually if the person WANTS to get off either one, a taper IS possible, you are not STUCK one either one for the rest of your life, one just has to set up a taper plan... the main thing with methadone is people mixing it with large amounts of benzo's and if he started doing that it would be very obivous to everyone in the family as he would start nodding out in mid sentence... Just saying. Obiously he has stopped using the Subs, and is getting high again from the behaviour you described..Subs help with cravings, but IMO not as much as Methadone. It got to the point w/subs for me you just feel normal all the time and you know you can quit taking for a few days and get high again.. Both have their pros and cons IMO.

I find methadone is a lot easier than suboxone to continue getting high on other drugs but then again here Suboxone is treated no different than methadone you go to the pharmacy daily and pick up your dose take it in front of the pharmacist. With the suboxone too it does block other opiates quite effectively. But I guess the laid back attitude the US government has when it comes to buprnorphine is how so many people from the states use Suboxone then switch switch to dope until money runs out.

Something to keep in mind screaming skull
Methadone may get you high at first but eventually it's the same thing you get to a steady serum level then simply feel normal not high by any means. Methadone is just hard on the body and if someone can get by on sub's I recommend it over methadone all the time. People always be think methadone being a full agonist will get them higher than Suboxone but its not really the case low dose Suboxone makes me feel better than high doses of methadone ever could.

The methadone just weighs me down makes me stupid, i sweat really bad and get extremely constipated but no high. I see so many people chasing methadone for a stronger buzz but in reality the high never comes and serious damage occurs from using massive amounts of opiates so chronically. He probably needs counsling to go with his Suboxone program because hoping to find a matinence drug that forever gets you high isn't solving anything and is nearly impossible. Just because he relapsed doesn't mean the Suboxone wasnt doing it's job it means he needs more help then he was getting.

screaming skull I notice you always bad mouth Suboxone because you say you only feel normal on them but the fact is that's part of matinence its about getting to the point of feeling normal so you can get your life together. I don't think its Suboxones fault I think its the US being retarded and giving it out to addicts in months supply's and no further support to go with the medication. Here in Canada they way they treat Suboxone like methadone makes the most sense and I hope the US starts to catch on and realise a change is needed with the way Suboxone is given out so freely.

Craving is all part of being on matinence of course your still going to want that buzzing opiate feeling even if all symptoms of withdrawal are abolished but we have to learn how to live not being so high so we can actually deal with problems head on instead of hiding in a bottle of vicodin or bag of heroin every time you get stressed out.

 

[fizzymk]

^^^You are right about methadone, Ive been on it for many years, only recently forced to come off, but over the years, I noticed methadone got me feeling normal, and if you took an extra 20mg or so, it would make me feel pretty good, but not as good the high from H, but Ive also heard many other people say methadone does nothing for them, so I think it works different for everyone.

During a recent doc appt, they told me methadone and oxycodone is the 2 drugs the DEA watches most carefully, I can attest to this as the crap you have to go thru to get a prescription filled, had to show ID twice, pharmacist had to complete some kind of survey before filling, it was nuts! and this is for a drug that does not get people that high...WTF?

 

[Ksa]

Well, it is a pickle indeed. Living life is like picking up flowers from a bush...and some people, as they do that, they notice something shining within the bush, so they go through the branches in there and find a huge gold rock that is better than any flower they have ever picked and could ever pick in the future.

I cannot say what to do because I honestly don't know but what I know is that nothing of this world can give him more than the drug can, not love, not you, not his mother, nobody. Not even winning the lottery. What he found is really big and perhaps the best approach is to make him forget that feeling by abstaining from drugs a long time.

There is no obvious solution. If I were you I would focus on my own self. Even if he dies tomorrow, he experienced whatever life on Earth has to offer, fully and for a very long time so he lived a GOOD life. Perhaps that's one approach for YOU to feel better.

 

[dankplantgrower]

Pretty obvious hes using. Addiction is a motherfucker I am an addict and forever will be. Youre in for a hell of a battle if youre choosing to get the monkey off his back. But it is the right choice and you are doing the right thing. Sounds like you are looking for reassurance. We are here for you. He is your blood and no matter how tough this ride is gonna be it is necessary. A life strung out on dope is worse than no life at all.

Good luck, you are doing the right thing.

 

[VitamaN]

Yeah, I think I get in denial so I don't have to deal with it.

Believe me, I know that love is the answer, not forcing him to do anything.

He makes 1440 a month after taxes approximately. Doctor dropped down the visits to once every 3 months. His script is $400. He is 26. Has no rent, no car expenses. Surely at some point my family getting together and making an agreement that we are not giving him any $ or anything that can turn into $ isn't unreasonable. Isn't that the first rule with addicts? Also making an agreement that he should be paying for his own food and a few hundred for rent isn't incredibly outrageous....Ground rules are better, rather than ignoring the problem, that's what the logic is saying in my head anyhow.

He also has tried methadone in the past. It just upped his tolerance, still smoked H after getting his methadone dose in the morning.

Essentially I don't see how letting him call the shots is going to be good for anyone involved. How can a diseased mind help someone get well.

Ya. I could definitely tell you were in denial and you probably knew that, but you know you DON'T have to deal with this, right? If he isn't asking for your help, what are you dealing with? It kills, I know. My brother died and his widow , a woman I loved as a sister, turned to heroine. I had to cut her off . There was nothing I could do. To this day she won't admit it's her responsibility and blames other people for losing her kid (my nephew) and all the drama drug pain BS she caused. This is your pain, but it is NOT your problem. Be a good brother and be there if he needs you but now... he needs his heroine . That's what he wants and he's putting that shit before you so don't stand in his way or you'll get trampled.