Heroin Is my brother smoking heroin again?

[dankplantgrower]

I respectfully disagree with the poster above ^

If you can save your brother, you should. If my family had cut me off I would be dead right now.

 

[Ksa]

Pretty obvious hes using. Addiction is a motherfucker I am an addict and forever will be. Youre in for a hell of a battle if youre choosing to get the monkey off his back. But it is the right choice and you are doing the right thing. Sounds like you are looking for reassurance. We are here for you. He is your blood and no matter how tough this ride is gonna be it is necessary. A life strung out on dope is worse than no life at all.

Good luck, you are doing the right thing.

One of the problems that drug naive people have in understanding drug addiction is that, they cannot ever get a mental picture of how good the addict feels. How can one find the right wording to describe it...it's impossible. For most people, the most intense pleasure they have felt is maybe their first or second orgasm. That's the problem, when the addict tries to explain that his heroin feels like 250 orgasms, again he is not understood!

The best analogy would be time. Humans can accurately picture time frames of decades, centuries and perhaps millennia for advanced history teachers. Then, when they try to visualize what 500 million years means in terms of history of evolution, it is impossible for any human to get an accurate mental picture. It's the same with heroin. The pleasure a normal human being experiences on his better days is so small that he can never understand what Heroin truly is or does. If they did, they would know it is hopeless and that the addict lived a precipitated form of existence where he experienced everything life on Earth has to offer in a very small time frame.

I said it 1000 times and I'll keep saying it: Do not feel sorry for the fucking addict! How hard is it to understand this? He's GOT what he's here on Earth for, he's GOT IT! Stop thinking of him as, ohhhh...the poor fellow, he's throwing his life away...he's slipping down the slippery slope, he won't experience the warmth of a child and all that kind of retarded expressions I see people come up with. It's only your naive perception. He's getting much more than whatever good thing you can imagine he's getting or else he wouldn't throw his life and family away for it and he wouldn't slip down the slippery slope.

Wake up. Seriously. Talking to the OP not dank. He is living life to the fullest of extent, but he just chose not to live it with you. He chose not to live life with any of us. He's living his life in another dimension...he's living life on Planet X or whatever the fuck you wana call it. He's not on Earth anymore. He's some place else.

 

[cj]

One of the problems that drug naive people have in understanding drug addiction is that, they cannot ever get a mental picture of how good the addict feels. How can one find the right wording to describe it...it's impossible. For most people, the most intense pleasure they have felt is maybe their first or second orgasm. That's the problem, when the addict tries to explain that his heroin feels like 250 orgasms, again he is not understood!

The best analogy would be time. Humans can accurately picture time frames of decades, centuries and perhaps millennia for advanced history teachers. Then, when they try to visualize what 500 million years means in terms of history of evolution, it is impossible for any human to get an accurate mental picture. It's the same with heroin. The pleasure a normal human being experiences on his better days is so small that he can never understand what Heroin truly is or does. If they did, they would know it is hopeless and that the addict lived a precipitated form of existence where he experienced everything life on Earth has to offer in a very small time frame.

I said it 1000 times and I'll keep saying it: Do not feel sorry for the fucking addict! How hard is it to understand this? He's GOT what he's here on Earth for, he's GOT IT! Stop thinking of him as, ohhhh...the poor fellow, he's throwing his life away...he's slipping down the slippery slope, he won't experience the warmth of a child and all that kind of retarded expressions I see people come up with. It's only your naive perception. He's getting much more than whatever good thing you can imagine he's getting or else he wouldn't throw his life and family away for it and he wouldn't slip down the slippery slope.

Wake up. Seriously. Talking to the OP not dank. He is living life to the fullest of extent, but he just chose not to live it with you. He chose not to live life with any of us. He's living his life in another dimension...he's living life on Planet X or whatever the fuck you wana call it. He's not on Earth anymore. He's some place else.

Well said. That may be the best way I have ever seen it described.

 

[The Doc.]

I don't think being a heroin addict is living life to the fullest by any means. Man was born with the instinct to survive and to love, not to do heroin. Seeing only the good side of drug use is something a person just experimenting with the drug would feel but once they get far enough into addiction they get scared and want out after realising what they thought was heaven turned out to be hell. Once you see what this drug makes you capable of doing a lot of addicts really grow to dislike the drug and want out but can't stop because they are so sick.

Think about if you were dying and all you did was do heroin your whole life would you feel as "fulfilled" as a man who had a family and lived a happy life?

 

[Screaming_Skull]

Eh, wouldn't say I badmouth Subs, IMO they are GREAT and I am sooo freakin' glad we have it like this in the US right now where you don't have to go to a clinic(i'd be screwed, just driving wise and getting around my job schedule) But I do agree w/ ya. Note, it kinda came off like I was suggesting Methadone but was kinda just trying to make it not sound like the devil people make it out to be, as some do with Subs also. But even though Subs make me feel normal, I can still tell I'm on some kind of Medication ya know what I mean? Like just a few hours after I take it, it's like a energy burst and I get chatty, then to normal, which is what Methadone did for me also(i was taking 40mg a day for about a week or so before I got on Subs, getting from someone that went to the clinic,decided to get on Subs because this person was very unreliable and lost their takehomes ALL the time.) But honsetly I can't feel a difference in the two, except I do feel a little bit more full-agonist on the Methadone, but after the first 3 or 4 hours it would just fade back into normal...did sweat more on it tho... But anyway, wasn't saying he should go on the done' just trying to make it not seem like the devil that nobody should even consider going on(people do it with Subs also,stigma attached to it, more so with Methadone though.)

Edit: Oh, one of the MAIN differences I noticed between the two is that done' seems to be more sedating, while Subs are almost like a stimulant kinda, but guese it's derived from thebaine like Oxy, so that makes sense...and for your brother, I would reccomend counseling along with the Subs, this could be where I went wrong and have relasped sooo many times on them(or I don't wanna get sober completely, I dunno.) But, talking to someone might really help him too, instead of just taking the Subs and trying to deal with everything on his own....

 

[Ksa]

I don't think being a heroin addict is living life to the fullest by any means. Man was born with the instinct to survive and to love, not to do heroin. Seeing only the good side of drug use is something a person just experimenting with the drug would feel but once they get far enough into addiction they get scared and want out after realising what they thought was heaven turned out to be hell. Once you see what this drug makes you capable of doing a lot of addicts really grow to dislike the drug and want out but can't stop because they are so sick.

Think about if you were dying and all you did was do heroin your whole life would you feel as "fulfilled" as a man who had a family and lived a happy life?

What you feel when your fun is finished is pointless, the overall resultant is what matters. Just the sum of good moments times intensity minus the sum of bad moments times intensity.

Getting tired of doing heroin occurs with every good thing in life, you get tired of your wife also! And you get tired of your children too, after a while you kick them out of your house hoping to never see them again! Same as you kick heroin! Because they didn't turn out exactly how you wanted them to be! Heroin doesn't turn out what you expected it to be either but what other thing does? Lol.

 

[VitamaN]

I respectfully disagree with the poster above ^

If you can save your brother, you should. If my family had cut me off I would be dead right now.

You can't save someone from their addictions if they don't want help.

 

[VitamaN]

Also I didn't say cut him off. I said I had to cut someone off who was using H...she didn't want help. She was putting my family through a lot of shit. Had she wanted help, we would have helped. She didn't want it...so she never got the help "she needed". You can know someone needs help but it won't do any good unless they know it as well and want the help. Otherwise you'll spend time trying to heal someone who's hell bent on self destruction and it's counter productive cuz it'll take you down with them.

 

[The Doc.]

What you feel when your fun is finished is pointless, the overall resultant is what matters. Just the sum of good moments times intensity minus the sum of bad moments times intensity.

Getting tired of doing heroin occurs with every good thing in life, you get tired of your wife also! And you get tired of your children too, after a while you kick them out of your house hoping to never see them again! Same as you kick heroin! Because they didn't turn out exactly how you wanted them to be! Heroin doesn't turn out what you expected it to be either but what other thing does? Lol.

I grew up in a dysfunctional family but I still know its not natural for somebody to want to abandon their kids mabye the wife though hehe. I'm just saying heroin happiness isn't real happiness and leaves you feeling 1000× worse once that high wears off. I supose you can look at a kid the same way, they wear you out yet you love them and you would do anything for them. But the difference in my mind is the fact that the kids are real and at the end if your life your leaving behind your legacy knowing you created a human being who you actually love more than yourself.

I think were both stubborn people so I don't think I'll convince you and you won't convince me of what your trying to get across. I'll never see being a heroin addict as living a happy fulfilled life when their is so much real life and beauty they are missing out on. Just because this guy relapsed on heroin doesn't mean he wants to be a heroin addict forever and will be happy doing so it just means he is sick.

I've never had a kid before but can't imagine loving something more than myself I have to say it must be a pretty amazing feeling. Heroin keeps you happy for a hour or two then leaves you sick as a dog for a month unless you can come up with 20 bucks every couple hours to stay happy. The thing you need is killing you and sucking your soul out of you mabye a few people are happy to be heroin addicts but 99℅ of heroin addicts regret being an addict. I've never met a heroin addict who was happy with being addicted to heroin. Your miserable most of the time yet you can't stop. Then you die alone in pain with many many regrets like everybody else except you can't remember doing anything with your life instead of regreting events that happened.

 

[Ksa]

When I say heroin I say drugs in general, but I most likely refer to speed-balls since heroin alone may not deliver 100% of life experience as you quite adequately put it, but speed-balls come closer to doing that.

Imagine you lived in a world where a Honda civic costed 25,000$ and a Bugatti Veyron costed 2,500$, but was illegal to own and deemed dangerous. You see where I'm going with this lol...the normal human being, functioning well in capitalism is money driven and constantly in a dopaminergic stand-by mode, meaning that he is motivated but is constantly delaying his reward waiting for something better to happen. Another life maybe, what they wait for no one can tell. It's like a sex starved chick not having sex with her fiancee because she's waiting for everything to be perfect, the dinner table, the rose hanging slightly off the vase etc. This is called dopaminergic stand-by mode. It's a high potential state, you're on top of a mountain, with a parachute, but you never quite jump.

This form of life consists of working 12 months in a year and then have 2 weeks vacation, where people relax and pretend to enjoy themselves. Some truly enjoy themselves but it is hard to tell weather the pleasure they feel is true pleasure or just relief from a stressful thing (work). Relief is different from pleasure. And so, the heroin addict goes to rehab, and people encourage him saying that quitting heroin has so many advantages like:

- You get to work 12 months a year for 2 weeks of vacation.
- You get to wear a loser's name on your underwear if you spend a lot of money on it.
- You get to have a girlfriend and adopt her problems on top of your own.

The Heroin dude, haha, you know the dude combining cocaine and heroin, suppose that he lives and he's healthy, 2 weeks of vacation? The guy, shooting for 2 weeks is roughly worth 2 years of vacation, and if he does it for a few years, he felt the equivalent of 100 years of vacation. It's like you're a big farmer, producing 50,000 tons of potatoes per year, then an idiot stops you on the street saying, if you work for me for a month I give you a bag of potatoes.

This is why psychological addiction to these drugs is hard to overcome, because you have to convince these people that the purpose of life is greater than to feel pleasure. Because humanity is where it is, we produce global warming, our planet is dying and we are not yet independent from it, so we need everyone's contribution to achieve independence as a race and just live on a spaceship, away from earthquakes, tsunamis and all that crap. But to achieve that, we need to remove a bit of our pleasure in order to advance technologically and so future generations can live free, on a spaceship, shooting heroin all day and having fun

My opinion still remains that we're born in the wrong place at the wrong time. Working 40 hours a week is not what life is all about but we got no choice for the moment.

 

[Pharcyde]

yep. sounds like he might be

for me, i can tell if someones high by how often they smoke and how much they enjoy cigarettes. to me its the all seeing eye

lol love it

 

[tacodude]

Topic has gone way off and op seems to not be part of it anymore.


Curious what has been figured out and how things have been handled.

 

[assholery]

I confronted him with love, he denied the claims. mom wrote a rentals agreement agreement with rules to follow if he wants to continue living there, he signed it.

The warning signs were real, I wasn't being delusional. I've seen him at his worst since I lived with him.

Last night he got picked up and carted to jail for shoplifting and possession of heroin and paraphernalia. He already had warrants for traffic stuff.

We will not be bailing him out and hope they have space for him so they don't let him go. This is the absolutely only way he will detox, he has told me he wishes someone would handcuff him and leave for two weeks as he'll never go to rehab.

Really feel helpless at the moment in regards to this. He's never been in jail before. If rock bottom exists I hope this wakes him up.

I can't visit or talk to him. If I did I know I'd end up getting him out.

 

[The Doc.]

Im so sorry to hear that but like you said it is for the best he will have to face his pain one day so may as well get him to face it now before a total rock bottom. It could have been a lot worse with heroin you would do anything to get that drug, anything I tell you. So the fact he got picked up for the simple crime of shoplifting is probably a good thing.

I hope he can see this is no way for somebody to live and hope he sees just how bad his actions hurts his family members.

All the best stay strong and get him help after jail because chances are he will still come out in withdrawal and find dope right away. Even if his detoxification is finished there is a good chance he will get out and go right back to his old ways that's just the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid. If this happens you'll have to put your foot down and tell him in a loving way we can't watch you kill yourself its too painful for us to see.

You see its not the drug addict who has the most pain during active addiction its YOU the family members. See when he gets upset he gets to use heroin even in his times of darkness he knows he still has heroin which will make him forget even if just for a little while. Meanwhile when you guys feel like upset you just get to feel bad you dont have heroin to turn to. So in my opinion you guys have been suffering more than him. All the sleepness nights worrying about him etc.

I Hope he turns his life around I truly do but you never know with addicts sometimes they don't want to help themselves and they never stop.
Its important to know that its not your fault shall this be the case. Its on your brother now to be strong like you guys have been he needs to feel pain the same pain he has put you through. Mabye then will he see what he has been doing to you guys and making you go through. He'll probably cry and cry after finally seeing what you guys have gone through because of his selfish actions.

Keep coming back for support
We will be here to talk to shall you need it. We have all been through it ourselves on both sides of addiction. Try to get him stable on Suboxone again that stuff can work great if the addict actually let's it do its job and takes it daily.

 

[tunesey]

I totally feel for you my best mate turned to heroin after I moved away from the area. He used to be a good friend and was best man at my wedding we were both soldiers and spent time in the gulf in 91. Since he hasa been on H he has been homeless lost loads of weight he smells and looks bad. The other night he knocked on my door and he reminded me of gollum from lord of the rings. My wife doesn't like him and nor do my teenage kids so we went into the kitchen for a chat as he told me he had some bad news to tell me.

His news was a mutual friend of ours had died but it was 18 months ago. The real reason he came round was he was in the area and needed to jack up. I watched him inject himself in his groin he told me he was lonely and asked for my number. I gave him my number but haven't heard from him since I don't think he will live much longer which js a shame cos we used to be close mates but he is beyond help. I just wish he would go back to normal and have some good times like we used to.

 

[assholery]

Keep coming back for support

Thank you trainspotter. I like you. My mom, dad and I went to a therapist this morning, it was really nice to have an outsider confirm the things we think we should be doing but doubt because we have emotions. He won't have a place to stay, he violated the renters agreement with my Mom and my Dad won't have him living with him again, he put my Dad through some hell in the past. Looks like he'll have to take advantage of the state programs or face time. I hope he does but if he doesn't I have to separate myself from it. It's hard to do, I can't stop thinking about it for very long.

We can only do so much and for now the only support we should be giving is emotional support. Not a place to live, nothing that can be turned into money. Supporting his lifestyle has not been good for anyone involved. We are going to find out if he has a rock bottom. If he doesn't want help we can't do shit about it.

Part of me thinks that he was shoplifting so he would get caught and forced to withdraw but another part of me knows he is just getting sicker and getting sloppier chasing the dragon.

 

[assholery]

tunesey, that must have been horrible to witness. to see someone that was really to you rot away like that.

 

[tacodude]

Damn... That is tough... You are right he needs it though. If not for the heroin use for accepting to shoplift especially when he was possessing heroin. Just not smart at all.