MDMA & Dehydration: How does it happen?

[Granite]

Got a question for you chemical geniuses regarding the implications of MDMA being a powerful agent against hydration. Does anyone know the physiology behind how this effect happens with ecstasy? I'm specifically interested in hearing details about hormones and chemical reactions. Hope that makes sense.

P.S. How this question pertains to me personally, is a theory I have that using MDMA has completely altered my body's normal ability to stay hydrated on a cellular level. While blood levels for hydration are normal for me, I have positive testing for high sweat chloride.

Thanks!

 

[VitamaN]

certainly no expert , but stimulants in general make you not want to put anything nutritious in the gut,
water being the ultimate nutrient ...
and people on MDMA stay a bit more active than say a tweaker who sits at home and takes his watch apart and tries to put it back together 50 times.
Getting dehydrated while being over stimulated and moving around at parties and FORGETTING to drink is a major factor in the dehydrator issue. When I rolled, I rolled with pros who forced me to carry around a water bottle and take sips so it was no issue for me.

 

[Granite]

Getting dehydrated while being over stimulated and moving around at parties and FORGETTING to drink is a major factor in the dehydrator issue. When I rolled, I rolled with pros who forced me to carry around a water bottle and take sips so it was no issue for me.

Yes, and that's why this question is so important to me. I can't think of any other drug that has such a connected importance of staying hydrated as a major part of using it.

 

[Mazzab]

Yes, and that's why this question is so important to me. I can't think of any other drug that has such a connected importance of staying hydrated as a major part of using it.

I think that's a stereotype. While many people who use MDMA tend to dance all night long, the physician activity is were the dehydration occurs. In "normal" circumstances, normal if not slightly elevated fluid intake is required. There is elevated body temp as well so sweating will also contribute to the dehydration. But it's one of myths associate with under education.

 

[JWills20]

MDMA being a powerful agent against hydration

You're misinterpreting it. It's not a powerful agent against hydration, it just activates and increases HR, body temperature causing increased sweating = dehydration. It's no different from exercise-induced dehydration in that regard. In fact, a lot of MDMA dehydration comes from excessive dancing all night - not just the drug.

theory I have that using MDMA has completely altered my body's normal ability to stay hydrated on a cellular level

Sounds like a BS theory. I doubt that highly.

I can't think of any other drug that has such a connected importance of staying hydrated as a major part of using it.

Stereotypical propaganda. The reduced hydration is similar to any other strong stimulant. Drink enough caffeine and you'll become dehydrated. Exercise hard and you'll become dehydrated. It's no different.

 

[Granite]

You're misinterpreting it. It's not a powerful agent against hydration, it just activates and increases HR, body temperature causing increased sweating = dehydration. It's no different from exercise-induced dehydration in that regard. In fact, a lot of MDMA dehydration comes from excessive dancing all night - not just the drug.

Ok. Then how does it affect body temperature through hormonal pathways? Those effects don't just happen. They are produced by something... Get it?

Stereotypical propaganda. The reduced hydration is similar to any other strong stimulant. Drink enough caffeine and you'll become dehydrated. Exercise hard and you'll become dehydrated. It's no different.

Same question. Why does caffeine dehydrate?

And, please, refrain from calling my theories bullshit when you have no factual basis. Like I said, I have issues with sweat chloride, all of this started after using ecstasy. I'm just trying to get some information on how the process of dehydration works when using a drug like ecstasy. It may help my research.

 

[Granite]

P.S. To be more specific, the feeling that I am dealing with is like a hyper-sensitivity to hydration. Like if I drink caffeine now, I become dehydrated very quickly. I have dark urine when I pee every morning now. I only drink water throughout the day and don't drink alcohol or do drugs anymore. Epsom salt baths (which contain magnesium) and are supposed to supportive of hydration make me very very sick and dehydrated.

So, yeah, it's like a constant dehydration that I can't fix.

 

[JWills20]

Ok. Then how does it affect body temperature through hormonal pathways? Those effects don't just happen. They are produced by something... Get it?

We're not neuroendocrinologists, but I'll try my best. It causes NE release, NE top-down controls numerous cardiovascular functions, hence increased NE = increased HR/BP = increased sweating = loss of vital electrolytes and bodily fluid = dehydration.

Same question. Why does caffeine dehydrate?

Similarly to the previous. Also to do with Anti-diuretic hormones (ADH). Alcohol and caffeine both cause reduction in ADH which reduce urination, hence why you piss all night when drinking.

And, please, refrain from calling my theories bullshit when you have no factual basis.

Then provide me some factual basis. I see no logical reason why MDMA would alter your body's normal ability to stay hydrated on a cellular level.

Like I said, I have issues with sweat chloride, all of this started after using ecstasy

Correlation and causation are not the same thing. Here's an analogy: let's say I started exercising vigorously and then started having issues with my sweat. Since exercise causes dehydration, I could go out and try to make some theory suggesting that exercise is the cause. In reality, it's likely to be completely unrelated just happening at the same time. That's what I'd say is happening here.

 

[myr]

Same question. Why does caffeine dehydrate?

In moderate doses it doesn't. Over 500mg it has diuretic effect in some people, but that's like 5 proper espresso.

MDMA causes vasoconstriction that reduces your body's ability to regulate heat so the one and only way for losing heat is cooling your skin by sweating. Most of the sweat evaporates right away, so it may not be noticable.

Also, it's nearly impossible to urinate while on MDMA. This actualy contributes to hyponatremia if you drink too much (>1,5-2 liter/h) meaning you flush out electrolites, like salt from your body (via sweating).

I'm no expert, but I highly doubt that the cause of your symptom would be mdma. You should look into other factors too:
"Positive sweat test results may also be caused by malnutrition, adrenal insufficiency, glycogen storage diseases, hypothyroidism, hypoparathyroidism, nephrogenic diabetes insipidus, G6PD deficiency or ectodermal dysplasia." (Wikipedia)

 

[Black]

as mentioned above, dehydration comes from increased sweating (typical stimulant effect), intense dancing and a raise in body temperature (caused by more serotonin binding to certain 5-ht receptors).
actually, the dehydration that can occur with mdma (in a club environment, it's typically no issue at all when doing it at home) is not the main danger of mdma use. hyperthermia is. the contributing factors are the same: flooding the brain with serotonin, typical stimulant effects and intense dancing - and all that most likely in a hot club. so the most important rule for safe mdma use is "don't dance nonstop and make pauses, chill out in a cooler area" and not "drink an appropriate amount of water when you sweat and dance a lot" (which you should still do obviously; it helps keeping your temperature down and being dehydrated will make you feel awful the next day).

How this question pertains to me personally, is a theory I have that using MDMA has completely altered my body's normal ability to stay hydrated on a cellular level.

after you come down from mdma, none of the factors by which mdma can cause dehydration apply anymore.

In moderate doses it doesn't. Over 500mg it has diuretic effect in some people, but that's like 5 proper espresso.

if you have no tolerance, then one cup of coffee with 50mg surely is enough for a good amount of people.