Is it OK to offer psychedelics to a recovering addict?

[perpetualdawn]

My friend had a big problem with alchohol and cocaine addiction in his life, and against all odds has managed to give both up permanently for the past year. His life has improved do much I don't think he'll go back. My question is, is it fair to offer this person psychedelic drugs? On the one hand PDs are completely different from coke/booze, and can be a very positive, growing exoerience, but on the other I wonder if its a bad idea to encourage someone like this to seek altered states of mind. My friend has a good deal of experience with weed, acid, mushrooms, at least in the past. Thoughts?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

The objective or goal of recovery, or getting sober/clean is to live life without drugs. This includes psychedelics like cannabis, mushrooms, acid, etc.

People will claim that they're 'sober' or 'clean' yet still smoke or trip, and they're just kidding themselves, or are in denial, and are not ready to live life without drugs.

For a lot of addicts using other drugs even psychedelics including herb just leads them back to the drugs they had issues with, or other drugs they did not have issues with and become addicted to those.

Your friend has already experiences with acid, mushrooms, and cannabis so this would be a major step back for him as he's learning live his life sober, as that's the longterm goal of recovery, or sobriety.

 

[jason7]

It would be okay for you to offer it but it would not be okay for him to accept it. That's the test, isn't it? If he accepts any drug it means that he hasn't truly resolved himself to sobriety. If he says "okay, I'll accept your gift of psychs" then you must reply "ah HA, sober my ass."

 

[phatass]

tempting him with drugs, even psychs is a bad ida IMO, i find it immoral bcause if he's clean of ALL drugs, that's great... If he wantd to take some and asked you would be one thing but not the other way around!!

 

[GlamorousJunkie]

If you offer (which you shouldn't if you're a good friend) and if he accepts, the chances of his addiction spiraling out of control again are very likely. it doesn't matter if his drug of choice was not psychedelics. The mere fact that he will be feeling anything but sober with bring back old memories of euphoria and he may begin to miss that feeling of euphoria, bringing back those voices in his head that one bump of cocaine won't hurt. I think it's a bad idea. I was sober for seven months and was offered one Percocet by a friend, and the rest was history. I spiraled back down into my addiction so quickly that I didn't even know what hit me. My word of advice for anyone who has been clean and sober off a hard drug... STAY THAT WAY and DON'T GIVE INTO TEMPTATION!

 

[RhythmSpring]

Offer him Iboga imo

EDIT: I am not being 100% serious, here. Maybe 15% serious. Iboga is very serious and should not be suggested willy-nilly.

 

[jason7]

Offer him Iboga imo

Yeah that's a good idea. Say you have some mescaline that you think he should try. Then give him 500 mg Ibogaine HCL. He'll never suspect that you slipped him the cure for addiction which, ironically, gets you high itself.

atara says: Please don't do this.

 

[phuckingnutz]

well, I am a recovering addict, but there are different levels of recovery...when I quit doing meth and smack I still had no intention of quitting everything...only the subs that were, IMO, harmful to me.
So, personally, I think it'd be fine to offer something, as a psychedelic distraction from reality is far better than what a recovering coke/alcohol addict might revert to otherwise in a moment of boredom/weakness.
At least if you offer up psychs at least he has a safer alternative IF he decides to fall of the wagon...I know this is fatalist talk, but addicts DO tend to fall and falling on a pillow beats falling on a rock.

 

[transitionsynth]

Yeah, there's a difference between recovery and sobriety. A recovery program from an addiction might even integrate psychedelic materials into its procedures. If your friend is trying to obtain sobriety, obviously you should not offer him anything. The fact that his drug history also includes psychedelics with the cocaine and alcohol is also a serious concern, as these might bring back associations he has from his old life.

It's very possible that psychedelics could be a neutral, or even positive, influence in this guy's life. We have no way of saying. The flip side of that is that it's quite possible that they'd be a negative as well. If I were you, I'd think long and hard about whether you're ready to accept all the consequences that may come from being his gateway into drugs, even if they are "good" ones. Some people are just addicts at heart, and they'll become addicted to whatever they can manage. You need to be sensitive to what your friend really wants and needs, and even then, I'd be wary about taking any initiative. If he's got his mind set on it with or without you, then someone knowledgeable and trustworthy providing him the materials would probably be OK, or better than him seeking it out from random street dealers. But if he's not sure, I certainly wouldn't push him into it, and in that case it's probably your duty as a friend to discourage his use.

 

[StanleyJobson]

The objective or goal of recovery, or getting sober/clean is to live life without drugs. This includes psychedelics like cannabis, mushrooms, acid, etc.

People will claim that they're 'sober' or 'clean' yet still smoke or trip, and they're just kidding themselves, or are in denial, and are not ready to live life without drugs.

For a lot of addicts using other drugs even psychedelics including herb just leads them back to the drugs they had issues with, or other drugs they did not have issues with and become addicted to those.

Your friend has already experiences with acid, mushrooms, and cannabis so this would be a major step back for him as he's learning live his life sober, as that's the longterm goal of recovery, or sobriety.

This is a very narrow-minded view of "recovery" that's parroted by AA and treatment centers. The long-term goals for anyone with past problems are going to be different. Some might subscribe to the teetotaler idea, while some might want to live a happy life instead.

Personally, I've found PD's to be much different than recreational drugs like booze/coke, especially as I've developed a spiritual life. Mushrooms and cactus add to your life, while other drugs are more likely to take away from it. With that said, everyone is different, and it should be entirely up to your friend as to how he wants to live his life.

 

[phactor]

If you are having to ask this question, it is likely a bad idea. If I knew an action would actually benefit another, I have hardily ever had to ask another individual if it was a good idea. Basically, I have never had to ask permission to do good things.

As an addict in recovery, I would be upset if a known friend offered me psychedelics. Not so much because of the type of drug it is, but because he knowingly put me in a possible uncomfortable situation at best and at worst threatened my recovery. I myself have tons of experience with psychedelics, but they became a bit of an after-thought after I moved onto "hard" drugs. Don't get me wrong, I would still take LSD, 2C-B or MDMA when I had the chance and the situation was right (on phish tour or seeing a DJ or something like that). Of course, when I took these I had to ensure I had narcotics for the comedown. So when I used Pyschs as an addict, I remained an addict and still did the things addicts do (used to take care of uncomfortable feelings, including a comedown... sometimes I would convince myself the comedown was bad just to go use). You see, I would use anything that altered me. I had favorites, but I was looking to alter my reality. I have to be careful when I take cough medicine containing a low dose of DXM nowadays... thats how serious I have to be to stay clean.

As far as "spirituality" goes, I thought psychedelics were "spiritual" in my late teens and very early 20s. Then they just became "party favors". I have grown more spiritually clean then I ever did with drugs. Total abstinence is what I both want and need. I still crave sure, had an intense one earlier today (came out of nowhere) but it passed in 10 seconds.

Why do you feel the need to offer him psychedelics? You said he is doing well, why put this at risk? Why do you feel that you have the right to judge anothers recovery (I think he won't fall off).

Are you sure that you yourself are just not looking for someone to use with?

 

[RhythmSpring]

Yeah that's a good idea. Say you have some mescaline that you think he should try. Then give him 500 mg Ibogaine HCL. He'll never suspect that you slipped him the cure for addiction which, ironically, gets you high itself.

Have you ever taken Iboga? That is NOT a "high."

Also, the suggestion was made in jest, mostly. I should edit it so that that's clear.

 

[jason7]

Have you ever taken Iboga? That is NOT a "high."

Also, the suggestion was made in jest, mostly. I should edit it so that that's clear.

It's too hard to get and too costly anyway. A psych might help him, I don't know. Maybe he doesn't even want any.

 

[perpetualdawn]

PriestTheyCalledHim, jason7, phatass, GlamorousJunkie, RhythmSpring, phuckingnutz, transitionsynth, StanleyJobson, phactor thank you for your responses, this has been great insight on the issue!

I can't say that I will definitely never ever offer it to him, but at this point your opinions have weighed me more on the side of not doing it. In the past when we have tripped together it's been a blast, and such a positive experience for us both. I'm happy to leave that in the past though, and I think it's definitely possible that any altered state might not be a good idea to encourage him to pursue, even if the PD experience is so far from the intoxication of liquor and the power of cocaine. So it's not a risk worth taking at all.

jason7: I think that would be a terrible idea to trick someone into doing ibogaine by telling them it was mescaline! I think you must have been joking tho.

phactor: My friend is someone I know extremely intimately, I know him in my own bones. I can feel nearly full certainty that he will stick to a life free of booze and coke. Watching his detox and recovery has given me new hope in the possibility of recovery from addiction, and even in the human ability to break patterns. So yes I have the right to judge his recovery. And it's a good thing.

 

[zzz101]

I never offer psychedelics (except md, 2cb,k, the weaker ones) not even to nearly all friends -- Ask and you shall find.

 

[phuckingnutz]

It's too hard to get and too costly anyway. A psych might help him, I don't know. Maybe he doesn't even want any.

Help him?...he's already clean people...OP "My friend had a big problem with alchohol and cocaine addiction in his life, and against all odds has managed to give both up permanently for the past year. His life has improved do much I don't think he'll go back."
I don't think the psychs are so much for recovery as for a diversion...?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

This is a very narrow-minded view of "recovery" that's parroted by AA and treatment centers. The long-term goals for anyone with past problems are going to be different. Some might subscribe to the teetotaler idea, while some might want to live a happy life instead.

Personally, I've found PD's to be much different than recreational drugs like booze/coke, especially as I've developed a spiritual life. Mushrooms and cactus add to your life, while other drugs are more likely to take away from it. With that said, everyone is different, and it should be entirely up to your friend as to how he wants to live his life.

It's not narrow-minded. It's common sense. Cannabis and other psychedelics are drugs. If you use them you're not sober, or clean. Getting high on them can make someone who is an addict fall back into using drugs they are addicted to, make the choice to use other drugs that are addictive, or decide to engage in other addictive behaviours that are self-destructive.

If someone's getting stoned or tripping then they're not sober, and they're not taking recovery/sobriety seriously; but that's their choice. We're all human and it does take time for people to admit they have a drug problem/addiction, and get sober/clean.

I've actually never been to an AA/NA meeting, and I have never been to a detox/recovery centre either, or really read the literature provided by AA/NA.

I do however have personal experience with addiction, and I know many other people who do.

 

[Jesusgreen]

It depends what his goal with being sober is - if he wants to avoid all drugs then no it's not okay to offer him any, he's made a choice to stay away from all drugs and that should be respected, doesn't matter if the drugs are safe and most likely would be beneficial for him like psychedelics, if he's chosen to avoid that sort of thing then it's best you don't offer.

If it was just the problems caused by his addictions and such that he's wanting to avoid, and he isn't intent on keeping a "straight edge" type view on drugs and avoiding them entirely then I don't think there's anything wrong with someone who was addicted to a completely different class of drugs a psychedelic.

That said I also think it very much comes down to how you and him would use them. Although psychedelics are quite benign and largely beneficial in many cases there's a big difference between using them therapeutically and using them recreationally, and a lot of addicts need to get away from recreational drug use in general, so if he doesn't need them in any way therapeutically it might be something worth avoiding as it could trigger his desire to use other drugs recreationally and start up a vicious cycle.

Really depends on your friend, and I think you know him better than us.

 

[rpm]

It's not narrow-minded. It's common sense. Cannabis and other psychedelics are drugs. If you use them you're not sober, or clean. Getting high on them can make someone who is an addict fall back into using drugs they are addicted to, make the choice to use other drugs that are addictive, or decide to engage in other addictive behaviours that are self-destructive.

If someone's getting stoned or tripping then they're not sober, and they're not taking recovery/sobriety seriously; but that's their choice. We're all human and it does take time for people to admit they have a drug problem/addiction, and get sober/clean.

I've actually never been to an AA/NA meeting, and I have never been to a detox/recovery centre either, or really read the literature provided by AA/NA.

I do however have personal experience with addiction, and I know many other people who do.

This is a question, not rhetorical. Do you think that someone who has had a problem with one drug can only make a recovery from addiction to that drug by becoming teetotal? Is it really all or nothing once addiction has been reached?

I don't know, I have never really been through the process. But everything I know about the human brain and behavior suggests that it should be possible for us to separate one altered state from another. I can't see why a coke addict who is fully recovered and clean for a few years couldn't take salvia for instance, particularly if it is search of something other than "getting out of it".

Obviously it depends on the person, the stage of recovery and what the goals are. My answer to this question would be that unless the person has been clean for a while, and wants to use psychedelics for a different purpose than recreation then no. But if they have and they ask then think about it.

 

[rpm]

It depends what his goal with being sober is - if he wants to avoid all drugs then no it's not okay to offer him any, he's made a choice to stay away from all drugs and that should be respected, doesn't matter if the drugs are safe and most likely would be beneficial for him like psychedelics, if he's chosen to avoid that sort of thing then it's best you don't offer.

If it was just the problems caused by his addictions and such that he's wanting to avoid, and he isn't intent on keeping a "straight edge" type view on drugs and avoiding them entirely then I don't think there's anything wrong with someone who was addicted to a completely different class of drugs a psychedelic.

That said I also think it very much comes down to how you and him would use them. Although psychedelics are quite benign and largely beneficial in many cases there's a big difference between using them therapeutically and using them recreationally, and a lot of addicts need to get away from recreational drug use in general, so if he doesn't need them in any way therapeutically it might be something worth avoiding as it could trigger his desire to use other drugs recreationally and start up a vicious cycle.

Really depends on your friend, and I think you know him better than us.

Ha! Snap. Pretty much what I was writing while you where posting.