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getting off the methadone roller coaster

obecalp

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
40
Been on methadone for two years. It really did help me kick heroin and pills. However, getting down to lower doses has become challenging for me. My high dose was 70 mg pink liquid. Which is a lot lower than many in my clinic are on. I'm down to 8mg as of today!

OK. Here is what sucks. I have trouble getting out of bed in the morning. Body aches. Sore stomach. Other minor symptoms plague me. When I started done I felt great in the morning. Maybe it would be better to just jump off and hope for the best?

So. Was thinking of seeing a doc outside of my clinic and using tramadol to ease WD symptoms. Tramadol is one of the few "narcotics" I can feel while on methadone. Relapsed back in February for a week on h. Didn't seem to get very high even though my meth dose was at 20 or so.

Really want to get off this stuff. It's such a double edged sword. Plus I really thing the doctors and staff just want to keep us addicted. After all it is a business. Need input from people in the program.
 
Started off 1 mg per week. When I got to 15 went to 1 mg every 20 days per doctors advice. Forgot to take my dose other day. Got sweats and rls like a mofo. So scared to see how I would feel after getting off done completely. Have heard some say its not bad. Some say its a nightmare.
 
Is there any way you could get some gabapentin? It helps a lot with withdrawal-u just take it short term, for a week or two.

For me getting off has been hard, although i dropped my last 10 mgs in 10 days, which i dont recommend, but i was just so depressed i needed to get off it.

Do you think youre strong enough to jump off at 8 (or 5) and not use? The shitty thing about done withdrawal is it takes longer :/ i felt worse my second day off it than i did my first.
 
I know. The first day isn't too bad. I made it 3 days without done once. Day 3 I couldn't move. But I feel shitty on my daily dose. Stopped drinking alcohol since that affects my dose working effectively. Is gabapenten a benzo? I can take benzos just fine. But my clinic will demand daily dosing if I use any benzos at all.
 
I was on methadone for a year, stabilized at 100mg. Then tapered down to 15mg over a 6 month period. In hindsight, methadone most likely saved my life. I went from using Oxycontin daily for 8 months to a massive IV heroin habit that escalated really quickly. Tolerance was an issue early on and I added cocaine and benzodiazepines to the mix. I was going downhill fast when I ended up on methadone. But the year I was on it was really just a brief respite from my addiction, not a solution. Methadone is a potent, full agonist opioid. I have yet to see any evidence that methadone heals your brain from the damages of opiate addiction and that was certainly not my experience. After methadone, I found myself in the same position as I was before going on MMT and the day I left the clinic I picked up again and, because addiction is a progressive disease for many of us, my habit was 10x worse on top of fighting against an even higher level of tolerance. By the time I found myself in rehab last November, I was 5'5 and 90 pounds, my body was unable to heal a tiny scratch much less an injection site, and I spent my detox in the ER wondering if I was going to make it and almost hoping I wasn't (and this was with 32mg of Subutex in my system, which is the max dose). 7 days later, the Subutex had reached peak levels in my blood and I was somewhat stable. I wish that was the end and I lived happily ever after... but instead, I ran away from rehab, relapsed dozens of times, got kicked out of 2 SLEs, was in and out of both NA and AA, and almost lost my life to OD a couple times (from my desperate attempts to get high by mixing heroin with other substances, I've never managed to even get close to heroin overdose thanks to tolerance). But I've been on Subutex since that first day in detox and without it I would never have been able to give recovery a chance. I failed so many times but I kept coming back and trying again. And I was finally able to achieve continuous sobriety. I'm still on Subutex today, though I'm down to 4mg and sometimes even 2mg, and many doctors have told me that my brain will always remain addicted and will never recover and if I were to come off Subutex completely I would resume active addiction. I honestly can't say I've made up my mind either way, but I intend to continue tapering and remain in active recovery and I believe if there's a time when I'm ready to completely come off, I'll know. Sorry this ended up so long, but hopefully my experience with methadone and buprenorphine (Subutex/Suboxone) can help. Not all aspects of my story may be relevant, so feel free to just take what applies. If I could have achieved recovery without Subutex I absolutely would have and I recommend it for anyone who is able. I was not. Wish you the best of luck!
 
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gabapentin isn't a benzo, it's for nerve pain and seizures but it helps a lot with withdrawal - my (very good) doctor prescribed it to me when I came off methadone last year and told her I was still feeling shitty. The only thing it doesn't help with for me is the tummy stuff, but it's good for RLS, general pain, and the depression from quitting opiates. Google "gabapentin for opiate withdrawal" and you'll find some good info.

Some people on high doses have to taper off it, but it's still not the same as getting addicted to opiates - you can taper off it in a few weeks fine. I didn't take it long enough to need to taper.

rhun - doctors actually told you your brain would never heal? I'm not sure I believe that - I mean I believe they told it to you but I don't believe it's true. I don't think there's any reason the receptors can't get back to normal. It might take some time - even a couple of years - but I believe almost anyone can have a full recovery.

and yeah... coming off methadone sucks. It's insane to me how awful I felt when I was one what I felt like was such a low dose.

I think the most important thing in staying clean isn't how you do it, it's why you're doing it. If you don't have a reason, a vision for your future and/or a few things in your life NOW that make you want to stop, it's very hard. When I came off methadone last year I relapsed within three days. I just felt so fucking empty. And the funny thing is I thought I was doing good while I was on it - it's like the very act of going to the clinic everyday made me feel like I was doing something positive with my life, as stupid as that sounds. When I stopped going (cos I was done with my taper), I felt weirdly empty. I was working part time from home, so I didn't have a reason to get up, get ready and get in the car in the morning. I just stared at the walls for a couple days and in those couple days I just started fantasizing about heroin, how good it would feel after being clean for so long, ect ect. So I relapsed and started another six month run.
 
rhun - doctors actually told you your brain would never heal? I'm not sure I believe that - I mean I believe they told it to you but I don't believe it's true. I don't think there's any reason the receptors can't get back to normal. It might take some time - even a couple of years - but I believe almost anyone can have a full recovery

Yes, that was what I was told. But I can't tell you whether they were referring to my case only or addicts in general. My most recent doctor also told me this, and he's not only a certified buprenorphine doctor but he's been prescribing it since the very beginning and specializes in pharmacology and behavioral health. He's one of the few doctors I've come across while on bupe that knows his shit, it's absolutely astounding the level of ignorance and lack of knowledge there is in the healthcare world regarding is medication. Even among doctors certified to prescribe it.

Anyway, while I don't necessarily agree and plan to find out one way or the other myself, it may very well be true in cases that are similar not mine. I believe what he told me was that for addicts who are as progressed as I am, once the addiction is turned on it can't be turned off.

But I believe the problem started way before my first use. I'm a second generation opiate addict through my dad (and addiction and mental illness is recurrent throughout my family) and we both have felt "wrong" since we were very young. At age 6 I can vividly remember feeling that something was wrong with me.

I don't want to completely derail the thread so I'm not going to go into too much detail, but I've had trouble functioning, low energy, mental fatigue, total apathy, and have felt flat emotionally ever since I can remember. It was diagnosed depression and later treatment resistant depression when antidepressants failed to work.

It was on methadone that I was introduced to the idea that many opiate addicts are born with endorphin deficiencies and opiates mimic endorphins (which are your body's natural morphine). This explains perfectly why I felt "right" for the first time in my life when I used opiates for the first time and used daily from my first use. It also explains why buprenorphine has been so successful for myself and others and its use as an off label antidepressant. Typical antidepressants address serotonin deficiencies and would not work for endorphin deficiencies.

So in closing, because I strongly believe I was born with an endorphin deficiency, I don't believe my brain will heal itself. Opiate addicts experience endorphin deficiency when quitting to begin with and I've attempted suicide in detox because mentally it was 10x worse than it should have been. Opiate replacement therapy with buprenorphine is the only treatment I've found so far.

Just my thoughts :)
 
OP, to get back to your situation, if you're really concerned about coming off I would talk to doctor that can prescribe buprenorphine. It will really set you up for success if you feel relapse could potentially occur if there's a lot of discomfort when you come off methadone. Typically, most docs insist on scripting Suboxone (buprenorphine with nalaxone) but because you're coming off methadone any reasonable doc should be willing to discuss Subutex (just buprenorphine) as an alternative. Their reasoning will be that the switch from methadone to buprenorphine will be easier without the additional antagonist properties of nalaxone but that's bullshit, both methadone and bupe have much stronger binding affinity to your receptors for naloxone. Your reasoning will be that Subutex has a generic available which is way more cost effective if you don't have or can't bill insurance :) Idk if we're allowed to discuss prices even for legal medication, but I pay less than a third of the price using generic Subutex over Suboxone and I make a 30 day supply last 60. I pay practically nothing. Check out goodrx to get 50-70% off prescriptions. And NAABT has a great resource called treatment match that helps in finding a doctor.

I'm NOT suggesting buprenorphine maintenance. I would stabilize then do a 10, 30, or 90 day taper depending on your needs and what your doctor recommends. Buprenorphine withdrawal symptoms are milder than other opiates as well as opioids like methadone. I've seen people successfully tapered off bupe many times and their WD symptoms were easily managed with Seroquel at night and a muscle relaxer during the day.

Most importantly, stabilizing on buprenorphine will allow your brain to begin the process of normalizing. Unlike other opiates/opioids which are full agonists, buprenorphine is a partial agonist opioid. This is a really basic explanation, but instead of dialing your receptors all the way up like methadone is doing to you, it only dials them up half way. You'll start to feel normal again but you'll still be functional and when you're stable you can taper much more rapidly than if you were on methadone.

As far as using other medication to help you through this process, there are definitely some non-addictive options out there. But I wouldn't even bother with gabapentin... I've seen it used in rehab and scripted to people in early recovery and, except for that 1 in 50 person that it randomly worked for, everyone thought it was useless. Trazadone was also useless for me and many others... really awful dreams and it wasn't strong enough to make me sleep through WD symptoms. Seroquel was a godsend. I'm using IR to sleep still but when first getting off heroin/coke/benzos and switching to bupe I used the XR formulation and it really knocked out my anxiety and helped me rest. I was definitely groggy for a while until I got used to it, but I didn't even care. I used Remeron in combination with 600mg Seroquel because I was completely manic once I got out of detox but Seroquel should be plenty. Remeron is a great option if you want something milder, it will definitely make you sleep but more naturally and it'll take the edge off any anxiety during the day. Flexeral and Soma were good in a pinch for the worst WD symptoms but I wouldn't use them more than once or twice, I've seen them abused. NO benzos if any kind either, not even once.

Methadone just made me tired and I didn't feel good once I developed a tolerance. It really is just substituting one addiction for another, though it's a lesser evil. You don't have to worry about dopesickness and the drug scene and it helped me break the daily using routine but it didn't solve anything for me and I saw countless people stuck on crazy doses and just chained to methadone.
Any plans as far as recovery? You gotta do something... I did outpatient and AA. 12 steps aren't for everyone though. I would at least see a drug and alcohol counselor.

I'm just going on and on so I'll end here. But do keep us updated :)
 
Haven't posted in awhile but I'm hanging in there. Down to 4 mg but I don't feel well. My motivation to do anything isn't there. I sleep a lot. Feel depressed lately and I miss using. But I'm gonna push on. Hard to get out of bed in morning. Can someone shed light on ways to feel better? Not getting WD symptoms just tired and lazy.
 
Oh to the other poster...I. Considered suboxone not sure if my insurance covers it. I may go that route.
 
Ok, I try to be really careful when it comes to advice for methadone /withrawl from it.
But I'm going out on the limb since no-one else is telling you.
You really aren't doing anything by staying on 4 mg but postponing your suffering. Its just not enough to stabilize you but enough to let you be in induced withdrawl. Studies show that anything less than 30 mg isn't really different as far as withdrawl. What does seem to affect withdrawl from studies is Length u use it.
If you are doing slow taper cause of work or something that's one thing. IF not I suggest you make the plunge and take away the safety blanket-tough words I know.
The withdrawls from methadone withdrawls at the lenght you took it are impossible to avoid because methadone begins to either run kr interfere with about all your normal chemical functioning.From tears to poop, it takes over everything. And it will take time to recover.
I know I'm 40 plus days in. I'm a mile from day one but still not completely there. There are stages to MD withdrawl, and it comes in waves.

IM am here to help not scold. Message me anytime you need to talk or want advice.
You will need support thru this.
--when your ready
 
Getting off methadone is not as it seems..

Haven't posted in awhile but I'm hanging in there. Down to 4 mg but I don't feel well. My motivation to do anything isn't there. I sleep a lot. Feel depressed lately and I miss using. But I'm gonna push on. Hard to get out of bed in morning. Can someone shed light on ways to feel better? Not getting WD symptoms just tired and lazy.
. I just recently quit the methadone clinic at 60 mlg daily for 3 years! I'm one week into not having anything and to be honest I'm doing good; very good to my surprise! I have had little to no withdrawal symptoms and I truly believe it's to my attitude and belief in The Lord! I'm not saying it's been awesome cuz I have noticed a lack of motivation and tummy aches along with the shits but other than that I been ok! I also am a stay at home mom of two boys...9yrs and1yr old so I have to push thru n just do what I don't feel like doing! Most important is that u remain busy and stay away from anyone that can give you something to help the pain cuz it will only prolong the process! I have no choice than to take care of my kids and be strong for them! I could go back to clinic right now but the feeling I'm getting from doing this is way more better and affirming then any amount of methadone I ever taken! So please hang in there and just force yourself to get up and do something cuz it really works! U have to just learn to live in a different way and in a different feeling. U will be so proud and feel so good that u will be more happy then if u don't give it a shot! It's not always as bad as it seems and you can make it hard or harder on yourself. Just PUSH YOURSELF to do it!
 
And also get outside and be around people you love and want to make proud like kids if u have any cuz when I look at my boys I can't help but push thru this tough time so I can be someone they can count on no matter what and when I was at clinic my entire life surrounded me getting my methadone... How is that any different than running to the dope house daily? It's just not worth it! This is so possible! Taking hot baths, doing house chores, going out in public, and just doing what u need to in order to push thru! U got this!
 
This is miraculous. Let somebody know if you need any help.
I'm 40plus days in.
It gets better.
 
I did it like this

30mls methadone
Transfer to 8 ml sub for 2 days
6ml for 2 days
4ml for 2 days
2ml for 2 days
1.2 for 2 days
0.8 for 2 days
0.4 for 2 days
0.2 for 2 days
Clean

Still clean after 12 months abstinence
 
I would try to find some valium/klonopin for long acting benzos, alprazolam for short acting benzo. Immodium in large doses. Pregabalin would be a lifesaver, gabapentin will work tho. Try to use the benzos heavy for less then 7 days then only as needed. If you can locate it, amphetamine could help, it always did for me.
 
Hi! first time ever posting ever! I've done prenty of reading. Not even sure if write place for post..... Anyway I started Methadone a 2 month relapse after 10 years sober. I was scared, didn't know where to go, not one perso knew I was buying again.
Went clinic almost 2 and half years; I got up to 130 at height, not even sure why??? I stated detoxin 14 months ago. I went 2 mg until I hit 18 (probably worst drop), held at 18 for 4 weeks, then down by 1 each week. At 5 I said fuck it. Got note from work.benn working closely from 30 and down. She's prescribed Chlonodine months ago and they really help. In the morning it will be day 8. Believe it or not, exercise has helped. .i hate laying I'm bed in pain, time stops. tV, reading all too difficult. So I have dragged self to gym. I take a class, it suck but better pain in bed.
This has been quite a journal. I almost forgot who I used to be!!
Thanks for treading, ,sorry for typos.
 
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