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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Norco Flexeril ativan and SSRI's safe mixing question

nobodyk

Greenlighter
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
19
I have been on norco for a few years for degenerative arthritis pain in my c.spine and L.spine. I also suffers from PTSD, panic disorder with agoraphobia, so the medications I take are all prescribed.


I quit drinking nearly a year ago and has been taking more norco for the pain since then (never would take norco while drinking bc of acetaminophen so didn't take it regularly before) My doctor did not want to increase my dose so she kept me on the 5-325 but increased the frequency to 1-2tablets 3 times a day as needed so thats 6 a day. I'm prescribed a 120 pill script every 20 days. some days I only take 4 some days I takes 9 depending on pain. I never cross the 4g limit though, I always count back 24 hours and if it's close I dont take anymore. Mostly I try to keep it under 2g a day. My question is if this is safe or should I push for the doctor to put me on 7.5mg 4 times a day. I dont like the Idea of taking so much tylenol. (I have thought about CWE for anything past 6 a day but not sure if it will really be effective considering the tylenol also helps for pain/??)


I am also taking Viibryd 40mg SSRI, and ativan as needed for panic attacks, and now seroquel at night for panic and sleep.


I am wondering what a safe level is of flexeril to mix with the SSRI, I'm taking between 10 and 30mg daily of flexeril. I haven't had any side effects yet, but I don't want to burst into spontaneous serotonin syndrome if I can help it. Thanks in advance for any advice.


Here is a breakdown
Viibryd 1x40mg AM
Norco 2x5-325AM up to 6 prn
Flexeril 1x10mg am prn
Seroquel1x25 pm


Ativan .5mg prn
 
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OP is in a ton of pain this morning so it just went


Didn't take MY SSRI yet


2x 10mg Flexeril
3x 5-325 norco


wait and see if this breaks thru the pain, if not, more norco


this is standard pain breakthru for swim. Is this good practice? I have told my Doc I needs more for breakthru pain but doc has not said anything.
 
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always consult your doctor but i would:

take the flexeril out completely.
take the ssri as prescribed
take the benzodiazepine as prescribed

i think your problem is with opioids. i think you don't think you are but i think that you could easily go down the road of addiction. once the hydrocodone becomes ineffective you'll move on to bigger things. we all have these little plans. they usually don't end up working. i can tell you love the opioids.

if you feel comfortable on them, it's entirely fine to do as a lifestyle choice. i was on heroin years ago and now i take tramadol instead years after quitting. i feel good on it. energized. there's nothing wrong with that.

anonymous -> basic

welcome to bluelight
 
Take baoooze's advice and don't keep increasing your hydrocodone dose. Speak with your doctor if your current regimen is not helping. But you should not keep taking more without letting him know. Also please edit your post and remove the SWIM references because we don't allow this at Bluelight.
 
always consult your doctor but i would:

take the flexeril out completely.
take the ssri as prescribed
take the benzodiazepine as prescribed

i think your problem is with opioids. i think you don't think you are but i think that you could easily go down the road of addiction. once the hydrocodone becomes ineffective you'll move on to bigger things. we all have these little plans. they usually don't end up working. i can tell you love the opioids.

if you feel comfortable on them, it's entirely fine to do as a lifestyle choice. i was on heroin years ago and now i take tramadol instead years after quitting. i feel good on it. energized. there's nothing wrong with that.

anonymous -> basic

welcome to bluelight

Thanks for the input you two,

I have been concerned about addiction, I speak to my doctor very regularly about how much I use. The problem is finding a good balance with pain I can deal with. I was taking Methocarbamol but it did not help. The flexeril has helped so much and I've only been on it a week. I love the fact that I finally have relief from chronic pain I have dealt with for years from a service related injury. I went through for several years just dealing with the pain being angry all the time and self medicating with whiskey and beer. I went to my doctor for help to address the underlying causes of my alcohol dependancy. If this means I love the opioids then yes i suppose i do. They give me great relief and I will not lie they make me feel good. I have been down the road of addiction and I have too much to lose to let it get its hooks in too deep but now is not the time to quit. I have a hernia surgery in a week and am still being treated for chronic back pain and seeing a surgeon for it. I came here to talk to people who know more about these things than me so I know what to avoid and get ernest, un-biased opinions. So, thank you.

Why do you suggest I stop the flexeril?

I will fix the SWIM references, sorry I thought that was policy from seeing it in other posts.

Thanks again.
 
no worries about the swim man. it's just that it makes posts hard to read so we remind members about it often. especially new members.

i wanted you to omit the flexeril because it's closely related to trycyclic anti-depressants. i'm not big on combing possible serotonergics. plus, i don't really find it effective. you want a good muscle relaxant, try carisoprodol. that has a special synergy with opiates which is pure bliss.

if you want to continue using opioids. i honestly suggest an extremely low dose of buprenorphine and working your way up slowly with that. you have a mild tolerance so it would give you what you need, it would give you full day coverage, plus the withdrawal symptoms arrive latent.

i think it's a really good for people who feel comfortable on opioids physically and mentally but don't want to go down the path of addiction.

the problem with addiction to illegal narcotics is it lowers the quality of life of the user because they're constantly chasing their fix. it's a cycle. when you're organized with your appointments and getting your meds dispensed from a good physician, you won't have that problem. so you using prescribed opioids has no impact on your quality of life or any harmful cause to society. that's roughly how we measure addiction.
 
I have as doctors appt today and i will ask about the carisoprodol. Im not sure about asking about buprenorphine yet though. I dont want my doctor to think im exhibiting drug seeking behavior. Thanks for your insight baoozs, very helpful and appreciated.
 
So at the doctor today, I asked about carisprodol. She said "soma, that's a controlled substance so I have to I have to write and sign...blah.. don't recall exactley, but I asked, Is that ok or would you rather me try something else? She knows I have a history with alcohol but am very upfront about addiction and my dosing with everything. She says no but I'm going to send a prescription for zanaflex, it has less side effects and less likeley for you to become addicted to, I'm also going to print and sign a prescription for Soma and If you don't like zanaflex you can go fill it. So I go pick up my prescription for zanaflex and as soon as I start to read the paperwork I see liver warnings, research it I come up with implications of hepatic damage and things like that. I'm not going to take another drug that could also damage my liver, so I go fill the Soma prescription without taking any of the zanaflex.

Just took some with a evening dose of norco so we will see how it goes.

I also told her that I just refilled my norco, she again says to me "you have to be careful with that" like i'm carrying a big fucking ladder or something. I ask her what she means and she says "you're only 28, you don't want to have it not working for you and moving up to morphine and things like that"? I tell her I dont want to upgrade to morphine or hydromorphone but I am in a lot of pain and I dont want to grit my teeth and suffer. especially with the added pain and discomfort of my hernia in the past two weeks.

I'm kind of confused by my doctors behavior, either she is just going through the motions for the sake of covering her ass...or I dono. any thoughts?
 
the problem with addiction to illegal narcotics is it lowers the quality of life of the user because they're constantly chasing their fix. it's a cycle. when you're organized with your appointments and getting your meds dispensed from a good physician, you won't have that problem. so you using prescribed opioids has no impact on your quality of life or any harmful cause to society. that's roughly how we measure addiction.

Sums up greatly what I think of this matter. Even in the US a medically supervised addiction to legally prescribed opioids is now considered acceptable harm reduction practice by many pain management specialists such as neurologists and anesthesiologists Not only does it deal with the pain but it avoids legal repercussions of chasing illegal drugs to treat a legit pain condition. The policies here in the US are still a far cry from Canada's approach to the matter but we're steadily gaining reasonable ground by removing the idea that any addiction is negative by definition. Restricting properly managed prescription of strong painkillers to hospice care is misguided, imho, because members of society that could lead productive lives if only their chronic pain could be alleviated with prescription opioids of sufficient potency are denied it based on pseudoscientific assumptions and moralistic holier-than-thou attitudes that have no place in proper pain management. One step forward would be an AMA's restriction that so-called "pain specialists" actually be that instead of self-appointed GP's.

Few neuros and anesthesiologists would risk losing their reputation and lucrative practice by doling out pain meds to random walk-ins, patients would need a referral stating their conditions and symptoms in detail before they could see the "real-deal" specialist for a thorough evaluation. That being said what frustrates me here in the US when compared with Canada (I share my time between both countries, I have dual citizenship by birth) is that HMO's will likely oppose this, or demand restrictive admission criteria because specialists charge more than fly-by-nite GP pill dispensers. So initially only those with independent health insurance and the wealthy can afford such a program, but at least it will demonstrate that managed addiction is not evil, by increasing quality of life and productivity in individuals who would otherwise drain resources from HMO's and state programs, or get into legal trouble. Ideally the FDA should require future DEA agents take a new course called "the legal and medical benefits of no-nonsense protocols in the treatment of chronic pain up to and including managed addiction". Addiction is only a problem when it requires obtaining substances from illicit sources, patients who obtain strong opiates from their doctor for legitimate chronic pain conditions don't end up in court, in fact they act normal being free of pain at last.

One real-life example of humane pain management. My Canadian grandmother took Dilaudid for almost a decade to treat a bone disease and I have never seen her acting "stoned" while on it despite doses that would have rendered me unconscious way beyond nodding. She was addicted evidently but as long as she had the med she was always her old self, busy as a bee doing paperwork in her home office and helping with the housekeeping, up until about a year before her passing at age 91. For that final year she was very weak and couldn't get out of bed. Her meds were switched to injectable Dilaudid and morphine which she administered herself using a "morphine pump" installed by an anesthesiologist and refilled every second day by a visiting practitioner nurse. "Grammy" usually stuck to Dilaudid during the day because she wanted to stay awake and interact with people, while morphine lulled her to sleep after diner. Once I bluntly asked about her pain level and she said "for a dying person, a lot less than I was expecting m'dear but it itches like a sonofabitch". Floored me. Grammy was an educated proper lady, a retired lawyer who would never use expletives so I called the nurse about the itch and she suggested Benadryl but I requested hydroxyzine (less side effects) instead and she phoned a script to a nearby pharmacy for it. Quick service, and it did do a lot of good.

Uncle asked me to dispose of leftover drugs which I did in the matter that you imagine. Never claimed to be an angel and didn't see why perfectly good opiates should be destroyed by taking them back to a pharmacy. Apart from the Fentanyl and morphine ampules there were leftover Dilaudid 4mg and 8mg tablets, almost 300 of them accumulated over 7 years because Grammy often skipped a dose when she was feeling ok but always refilled every month and stacked the leftovers from the previous month on a cupboard. This was to one and only time I developed a minor addiction to opiates, which I usually avoid due to nausea. Withdrawals lasted about 5 days alleviated with generous doses of temazepam.

I wasn't there during Grammy's final 2 months but was told by an uncle that they had switched her morphine for diacetylmorphine according to what he had read on the box containing refills. Heroin then, restricted to hospice care in Canada (Health Canada Schedule I, Restricted) but not yet legal here I believe. However what I saw when we cleared her room after the funeral was an unopened box containing refills of a Fentanyl solution not diamorphine even though uncle said there was some left somewhere. Never found it but maybe medical staff took it, don't know why uncle would have lied about it he knows nothing of drugs. Whether heroin or Fentanyl Grammy used it almost exclusively at first but as the end neared she was too weak to use the injecting device herself so my uncle and visiting medical staff used a standard maintenance dose until she peacefully passed away in her sleep, nurse at her side because they knew the end was near and did not want her to die alone, but my uncle was the only family member living locally and he couldn't sit there 24/7. Uncle says both him and dozing nurse were awoken when the heart monitor beeped a flatline. Grammy had been very clear about the "no revival" policy so nothing was attempted.

I can only imagine what her last years would have been if she had lived here and DEA-weary docs would have denied her the Dilaudid she needed to function normally, instead giving weaker PK's like hydrocodone and waiting until hospice care was required to finally provide sufficient relief. I think that would have caused her to lose a few years to constant pain gnawing at her. Quite frustrating that many irrelevant factors are still impeding this sort of approach. Oh well the logics of this country still evade the vast majority of us but yet we survive. In pain but alive, has a nice ring to it.
 
Agree, if you cannot get a formula without acetominophen, 6x a day even at 325 is > 1900 mg/day. Say goodbye to your liver and kidneys if you want to run on that cocktail for any serious period of time. Or god forbid, taking more than 6 per day. I don't know what doctor would knowledgeably prescribe that much without a simple move to percocet or zohydro ER....
 
I'm having an interesting experience as I transcribe this..I woke up this morning and took 2 7.5mg norco and 2 350mg soma...it seems to have hit me very hard my muscles are quakey and my legs feel unstable. I'm wondering if I should be concerned or enjoy it. I have not had this effect from the combination. my hands are very jerky while typing. any thoughts on this or what I should do? I'm on the higher dose for surgery pain and my doctor has also changed this to my dose of the norco from here forward.
 
drank some caffeine thinkin this may help make the effect of the soma less intense
 
I'm having an interesting experience as I transcribe this..I woke up this morning and took 2 7.5mg norco and 2 350mg soma...it seems to have hit me very hard my muscles are quakey and my legs feel unstable. I'm wondering if I should be concerned or enjoy it. I have not had this effect from the combination. my hands are very jerky while typing. any thoughts on this or what I should do? I'm on the higher dose for surgery pain and my doctor has also changed this to my dose of the norco from here forward.

At this point I've chosen to just sit my ass down and enjoy it. I feel very relaxed my eyes are a little squinty but everything seems ok. I'm fairly alert...kinda feel sleepy. please let me know what you guys think.
 
hahaha. good for you. i knew you would enjoy the soma ;)

be careful with it. it carries a risk of addiction, dependance and withdrawal. not to the same extent as benzodiazepines but not too far off especially in terms of the symptoms of benzodiazepine withdrawal.

just take it as prescribed. it's a potent depressant drug so be careful not to take too much with opioids.
 
The dosage change was a very good idea I think. I'm having more pain relief throughout the day with 4x a day 7.5/325 norco and 4 x 350 soma a day. Much better pain and muscle spasm control. thanks for all of your help. I just got a letter in my latest prescription refill about the DEA re classifying hydrocodone as schedule II instead of III...not sure what they are trying to do there. I think they think the only people who take these meds are addicts and not in pain. Not a good way to try to curb abuse if you ask me.
 
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