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Septsober - The September gettn and stayn sober thread 2014

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yeah the depression is definitely the worst part. when I'm in a good mood, the symptoms are pretty easy to deal with. when I'm in a bad mood it feels like the physical stuff is amplified. honestly, if the akathisia just went away, I'd be content lol

soo what's your plan exactly?? just curious, what even happens when you use an opiate with a short half-life to detox from one with a long half-life anyway?? It doesn't just add on to the withdrawals of the longer-acting one?
 
I'm not sure tbh, I've never done it before... When I got off methadone last November I just went straight back to using (well a couple days later), I didn't try to switch. I kind of tried to taper of H in May, right before I got on methadone, but I didn't really TRY try. I didn't have the willpower to keep myself in even mild withdrawal, it was just too tempting to take a couple more sniffs so I could feel good. But back then I kind of was like - well I'll just go back on methadone. The thing is, the first time I got on methadone I started at 70 and went down very slow until the end. I remember NO depression problems that time. NONE. Although obviously things weren't peachy because I relapsed a couple days later, but I think that's because I was suddenly faced with real life, no opiates, and no goal. FOr so long I was focused on tapering off methadone. Then suddenly I was off, feeling a little crappy, but mostly feeling... empty. I hadn't figured out that I needed to replace the dope with something back then. I thought you just get clean and boom your life is supposed to get better. But I got clean and just felt, like I said, empty. And started fantasizing about dope, ect ect.

So back this past May, I was like "I'll get on methadone again and things will be fine". But I got on a dose that didnt hold me and went down way too fast and was miserable the whole time. I do NOT recommend doing what I did. If you get on methadone, do it right and go down slow. I felt like I was losing my personality :/ All I did was worry, my anxiety was off the charts. I looked through my old thread and it's just post after post of "I feel so awful, I cried for an hour today, I'm so depressed, I can't take this". I wasn't like that last time. It was bad. And so I think part of the reason I relapsed was because I wanted to feel normal and human again.

my plan is just to keep myself in mild withdrawal for a few days, just taking the edge off in the am, spending the day as sick as I can stand, and then doing a little at night just so I can get to sleep. I figure three or four days of that should lower my habit a lot since it's so short acting, and when I get to the point where only a tiny little bit makes me feel better, I'll jump off. Maybe I'll cave and take my gabapentin for a few days. But my goal is to be clean by next thursday. That gives me four days to ramp my habit down. I know I"ll still feel like shit, but hopefully it won't be too bad.

Hopefully after more than a week with no methadone, it's out of my system and I'm totally switched back to heroin. And if that's not true I'm just gonna believe it's true anyway :p
 
So the goal is to get readdicted to heroin and then jump off that?? Isn't heroin addiction why you went on methadone in the first place? I'm not trying to criticize you I swear lol I'm just asking questions because I don't entirely get it. When I imagine myself doing the same thing... well, I imagine myself going down a road that doesn't include sobriety anytime in the near future. Yes it's shorter acting and the withdrawals won't last as long, but don't you think the intensity of them will present a similar problem?

I hope you don't take any of that the wrong way. I'm seriously not trying to make you second guess yourself or anything like that. I'm just curious because I was considering doing a kind of taper with an MS Contin and a few Vicodin I have... so it would kind of be like what you're doing, just on a smaller scale. That's mainly why I'm asking lol.

*TRIGGER WARNING FOR ANYONE IN RECOVERY FROM PSYCHEDELICS OR DISSOCIATIVES* Anyway so I caved and bought a 4oz bottle of Robitussin. I'm gonna drink half now and then the rest later. DXM has always been a really spiritual drug for me, and I could definitely use some spiritual insight right about now. Dissociating from reality entirely for a few hours sounds nice too. DXM and withdrawals are risky business, I know... last time I took it while I was in hardcore withdrawal I spent a good hour of it thinking I was being attacked by demons. But once I got through that part, I had a breakthrough and the most spiritual experience I have ever had in my life... it's actually what woke me up to spiritual principles in the first place and is a big part of the reason I view the world differently (in a very positive way) now than I did before. Soo whatever happens, I can handle it. But a trip is definitely in order, it's been a long time and I view psychedelics/dissociatives as being really spiritually cleansing. Which I could definitely use right about now for some extra strength haha
 
Thank you <3

I'm trying really hard, what scares me is I've only been off the Subs for two days and I already feel this bad, I honestly can't imagine it getting much worse than this. I mean last time it took about a week to start feeling a noticeable difference each day, and that was with having a small break for the first 2 1/2 days or so when it wasn't so bad. But it started almost immediately this time. That either means a) I'm going through the worst right now, or b) it's still going to get worse before it gets better. That freaks me out, I can handle it though. I figured my best bet was to ramp up my efforts at getting better soo I did. Went to the store and got some bananas and other healthy foods/drinks, exercised a lil bit harder today, and I am going out of my way to be nice to people IRL (makes me feel a lot better mentally). Music helps me more than almost anything so I've been listening to it almost non-stop. And when I'm not doing that I'm trying to turn to spirituality and thinking of the process in spiritual terms (which is also hard right now because it is a legitimate battle to think beyond the pain, but deep down I know what I believe to be true). I know feeling bad is a good thing, it's not a comfortable process to detox (even when people do detox cleanses like with juice, not actual drug withdrawal, I've heard the first few days are painful). You would think expelling toxins would feel amazing, not the other way around haha. I know I can do it. It's just hard. On top of feeling horrible I only got 2 hours of sleep last night. I finally fell asleep at 6 am after tossing and turning all night and then woke up at 8.

I AM GOING TO DO THIS THO SERIOUSLY FUCK YOU HEROIN. That shit will NEVER own me ever again. I could have used today, I got some money and briefly considered it. But then eventually I went to the store and bought all that food instead. That, at least, is a sign of real progress, seeing as how money is quite possibly my #1 trigger.

Enough about me and my misery however lol. How are you, Smoky??

I heard you say, " I know I can do it ! " :) <3

I know you can to. It's hard not to 'know' what's next. I hear ya!
If I recollect you had experience in recovery before. Me too! That's what's helping me and got me through this, is I did it before, I can do it again, and know it gets better, and IS getting better for me anyways. No short cuts, only way is through.

I am experiencing quite a bit of lethargy, 'but' … compared to the first couple of weeks there has been quite a transformation and my confusion is clearing up. I am having NO hallucinations or anxiety… just dragging the body around to work is troublesome a bit. I saved a cat on the street the other day … returned it to its owners. The little things I didn't used to do I'm starting again. Photography etc, reading. I know deep down, I'm going to be taken care of as long as I don't put an opiate in my system. Music, driving, BL, my cat, cmt , acupuncture ... keeping busy which I did during detox, but continuing to do that now… which is difficult, but is helping me tremendously. I thought about using too, then I saw a friend Rue on the street I had not seen in years that is still off H, and I realized I would have not stopped to talk to him if I was high… So, when I see people, and it's a small city, it feels good to not hide.

Anyways, Hang in there, you worth it!
I know you went to the store, but L Glutamine is great.. It helps the gut pain and ssssllllllooooooowwwwsss things down. Crosses the bbb. So I hear. Helped me. :)
 
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So the goal is to get readdicted to heroin and then jump off that?? Isn't heroin addiction why you went on methadone in the first place? I'm not trying to criticize you I swear lol I'm just asking questions because I don't entirely get it. When I imagine myself doing the same thing... well, I imagine myself going down a road that doesn't include sobriety anytime in the near future. Yes it's shorter acting and the withdrawals won't last as long, but don't you think the intensity of them will present a similar problem?

I hope you don't take any of that the wrong way. I'm seriously not trying to make you second guess yourself or anything like that. I'm just curious because I was considering doing a kind of taper with an MS Contin and a few Vicodin I have... so it would kind of be like what you're doing, just on a smaller scale. That's mainly why I'm asking lol.

*TRIGGER WARNING FOR ANYONE IN RECOVERY FROM PSYCHEDELICS OR DISSOCIATIVES* Anyway so I caved and bought a 4oz bottle of Robitussin. I'm gonna drink half now and then the rest later. DXM has always been a really spiritual drug for me, and I could definitely use some spiritual insight right about now. Dissociating from reality entirely for a few hours sounds nice too. DXM and withdrawals are risky business, I know... last time I took it while I was in hardcore withdrawal I spent a good hour of it thinking I was being attacked by demons. But once I got through that part, I had a breakthrough and the most spiritual experience I have ever had in my life... it's actually what woke me up to spiritual principles in the first place and is a big part of the reason I view the world differently (in a very positive way) now than I did before. Soo whatever happens, I can handle it. But a trip is definitely in order, it's been a long time and I view psychedelics/dissociatives as being really spiritually cleansing. Which I could definitely use right about now for some extra strength haha

I don't really think I'd put it like "my goal is to get readdicted to heroin". The goal was to stay sober, but I failed. I've been using for a week, so now, whether I wanted to or not, I'm readdicted to heroin. The plan is to use as little as possible to ramp down my habit a bit, and then quit, possibly using gabapentin to mitigate any withdrawal. Yes, heroin addiction is why I got on methadone, but that methadone taper was a failure :/ I never stabilized, I was sick the whole time, and it just got worse and worse. So I don't want to go back on methadone - the only way I would do that is if I went on and went up to 70, so I was totally comfortable, and then did a slow taper that lasted maybe a year and a half. But I don't want to be chained to the clinic for another year and a half. I have plans and goals and things I want to achieve. It's not really going to fly. I'm done with that clinic. So since I am in the place I am right now, readdicted to heroin but with a pretty low tolerance (a half lasts me three days), I'm going to reduce my use as much as I can over the next few days, and then quit and ride out the withdrawals.

Heroin withdrawals are more acute, but they last a much shorter time than methadone or bupe. I'd rather go through a few hard days than weeks of feeling kind of like crap. I remember back in the day, I had to quit cold turkey off a really big habit - it was awful. Worst CT I ever had. It felt like an electric current of 1000 volts was plugged into my brain. I could hear it humming constantly, and when I turned my head it would go WHAP like there was a voltage surge. I can't even begin to describe how bad it was, but I'm sure a lot of you reading this understand. As awful as it was though, on the fourth morning I felt a lot better. Thing is... on the fourth morning my connect came through, and I just didn't have the willpower not to do it. But anyway, I'm going to reduce my use - since it's so short acting, I should be able to to get my tolerance down pretty low before I jump off. Then, when I do jump, I have a few Ativan and some gabapentin if things get really dicey.

Also, being that I snort it (I used to shoot, but not in a long time), it's just a lot easier to do the bare minimum. I can :::BIT OF A TRIGGER WARNING I GUESS::: break off a tiny little piece and put a lot of water on it, then take a few little sniffs, just enough to bring the sickness to managable levels. Hard to do that shooting, because half the point of shooting is the rush, and you don't get a rush doing a tiny amount. Plus the bioavailability is a lot higher when you shoot. But my point is, it's relatively easy for me to just do a little bit. I guess it would be possible with vicodin and oxy, but just like with heroin, you'd have to have discipline. I spent the whole day borderline sick, and wasn't going to do more til sleep time, but I caved a couple hours ago and did a tiny bit. I'm not high, just normal. But I did a whole 12 hours sick, so that should help. I wont do anymore tonight, so I'll be sick when I wake up, do a tiny bit to take off the dge - still keeping myself in withdrawal - and try to go another 12 hours. Doing this for three or four days, I'm hoping should bring my tolerance down. Basically my choices at this point are a quick heroin taper or cold turkey, since I don't want to go back on 'done and can't take bupe.

Personally though, I don't think you should fuck with the pills. Just my two cents. It's just a slippery ass slope, you know?

I'm going to try to get a good sleep tonight to be prepared for another day of being sick tomorrow. I want off it, I really do. I can't explain how fucked up the last three months on methadone have been, how depressed and anxious I was, how I felt like I was losing who I was, my personality, I couldn't enjoy anything. I don't know how to emphasize enough how bad it was. There were a few days where I was actually scared, thinking I needed to go see a shrink or something, go on antidepressents. And it kind of messed up some of the time I spent with the guy I'm seeing. I was so down that even when I was with him I wasn't happy, laughing, ect. Total inability to feel pleasure. It scared the hell out of me. This week on heroin, as bad as I know it is that I relapsed, at least has me feeling like ME again, so that even when I was sick today, I didn't feel that crushing depression and anxiety.

Anyway this is turning into a book so I'll leave it here. Just trying to explain why I did what I did. I never want to feel the way I felt on methadone these last few months. Never again. I think warm turkey is the best way for me, I just need to be strong and do it, not say "I'll cop one more piece and taper in a day or two".
 
I have been doing really well.. Finally after years of working through all the issues I had pile up in my life I just about at a place that i can just cruise nicely out of. Its so crazy to think ware I was around three years ago and ware im at now. Its a fucking miracle if I do say so myself and I'm about as grateful a person as possible to be able to work myself into this position and still be able to pursue my dreams at this level. So my heads finally above water and I sure as shit can see land. It even kinda looks like a paradise of sorts. =D

treading+water.jpg


If anyone thinks they are in a place they cant work out of I would try and do so, you might just be amazed at where you end up.
 
^

I needed this today… Feeling stuck in the hallway, thinking I'll never get back to where I was… it seems so very distant to me now, but there's a part of me where I know it IS possible. Thank you!

(I am going to swim this week, seriously - very inspiring post). :)
 
^^ I swam a bunch yesterday, it's hot as shit here right now!! It was such a good day yesterday, just a huge contrast to how I lived my life when I was using. I'm surrounded by positive vibes today instead of negative ones, that in itself is something to be grateful for <3

9 days without any heroin, I feel okay right now but that's because I took the MS Contin I had. I was feeling pretty bad before that. I'm sure I'm close to being through the worst of it tho :)

How are you guys doing, Blue and Smoky and NSA and everyone else??
 
Starting to feel sick again, it might have moved to my lungs (they are starting to hurt). This is the last thing I need. Called the Doctor for more anti-biotics. If it continues to happen I guess I have to go back to the doctor. Thankfully I am on Obamacare so if worst comes to worst and I have to go to the Hospital or something it will be covered.

On a good note, Some fellow addicts and myself started 5 new NA meetings in the area. It took quite a bit of effort because we had to get approval from so many different boards and "areas/regions" but we had our first meeting last night. We had 5 newcomers show up which is always great to see. One of them seems like he just might make (right attitude and asking for help).
 
^^ I swam a bunch yesterday, it's hot as shit here right now!! It was such a good day yesterday, just a huge contrast to how I lived my life when I was using. I'm surrounded by positive vibes today instead of negative ones, that in itself is something to be grateful for <3

9 days without any heroin, I feel okay right now but that's because I took the MS Contin I had. I was feeling pretty bad before that. I'm sure I'm close to being through the worst of it tho :)

How are you guys doing, Blue and Smoky and NSA and everyone else??

Glad to hear you've been exercising, keep up the great work <3
 
@Blue Thanks for getting back to me but I'm a greenlighter and can't reply until my 180 min is up. I'll send you my email when that time comes.
 
Glad you had a good day xburton :) I miss swimming, I think there's a pool not far from my house, I should see about going.

I'm doing good, the last two days I kept myself in mild withdrawal all day, did just enough to fall asleep, woke up tossing and turning at 3 am this morning but made myself wait til 7 to do a tiny bit to take the edge off. Haven't done any since then so I'm pretty sick now but somehow it's doable. I'll probably do a tiny bit in a min so I can eat dinner, and a tiny bit so I can sleep around midnight. I haven't been high in two days, or even totally well, but I'm ok with it. Somehow it's easier this time. Maybe because it's my choice? I just feel like I have more control.

I my have lost a battle (the methadone thing) but I'm not going to lose the war :)
 
Thanks C.H :) I'm sorry I haven't been able to listen to the music you sent me yet but my WiFi has been down, I've been having to use my phone. Also I really wanted to try to hang out before I left but I might be leaving tomorrow now instead, ill be back tho!!

I'm glad to hear that you're doing well, Blue :) when are you planning to jump off?? Or are you just playing it by ear for right now?
 
I'm thinking either friday or monday. I was going to say thursday but then I was like, why rush it? As long as I'm not fucking up and doing enough to get high or all the way well - as long as I'm staying in withdrawal, I'm making progress. Past monday I shouldn't have any left anyway, and I made a promise to myself I wouldn't cop again, so I'd like to keep it.

Tanne - no worries :)
 
Are you planning to keep tapering until then?? I'm curious to see how this works out!! Not cuz I want to try it for myself lol it wouldn't end well for me. If anyone can do it though its you!!
 
I'm doing a little better than yesterday… rebound anxiety not so strong… 22 days! Just got out of an acupuncture chair at a place I found is cheaper and they let one sit longer than 1/2 hour in lazy boys. My pain still in spine but it's more bearable.

Swimming is the best form of exercise ! ! I may go to the public pool tomorrow if I can find my suit…

BlueSaffron, I tapered Heroin… It was so very difficult but I was using enough to just hold me, experiencing withdrawals in the day. I then took methadone through the acute phase and it worked. With seizure meds. I was in terror of jumping off a high dose again, so I made a conscious choice to do it. I cut up the amounts 5-6 days in advance… made a plan so I wouldn't go over.. :)
 
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