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Is heroin as bad as they say it is?

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red22

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By heroin, I really mean any full opioid agonist. What are your thoughts on someone who had the novel idea of using heroin in place of a cup of coffee or an antidepressant. From a biochemical standpoint, how would you say heroin stands up as an antidepressant? Is it better than what the psychiatry industry labels as antidepressants? Is it worse? Picture a hypothetical society where there's a product similar to 5-hour Energy but it contains a low dose of hydrocodone instead of caffeine. How would that work out? ...
 
red22 said:
By heroin, I really mean any full opioid agonist. What are your thoughts on someone who had the novel idea of using heroin in place of a cup of coffee or an antidepressant. From a biochemical standpoint, how would you say heroin stands up as an antidepressant? Is it better than what the psychiatry industry labels as antidepressants? Is it worse? Picture a hypothetical society where there's a product similar to 5-hour Energy but it contains a low dose of hydrocodone instead of caffeine. How would that work out? ...
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Uh, well firstly it wouldn't be a good replacement for coffee/caffeine because mu-opioid is a very strongly sedating receptor, and it's agonists are also very sedating. Maybe you could use oxycodone, as I have noticed pretty strong nootropic effects from it, but it is still, as with all opioids, sedating (especially heroin/morphine).

Mu-opioid agonists do have very powerful anti-depressant effects, and are used for REALLY REALLY treatment resistant depression. This is of course because of how physically (and psychologically) addictive they are. Using opioids as an antidepressant rather than more conventional options is likely to do more harm than good.
 
DL-ark said:
Uh, well firstly it wouldn't be a good replacement for coffee/caffeine because mu-opioid is a very strongly sedating receptor, and it's agonists are also very sedating. Maybe you could use oxycodone, as I have noticed pretty strong nootropic effects from it, but it is still, as with all opioids, sedating (especially heroin/morphine).
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Not in my experience. Only in higher doses. Caffeine may be a stimulant, but its not a good mood stimulant, and that's an important facet of one's energy level. Opiates, by contrast, are great mood stimulants.


DL-ark said:
Mu-opioid agonists do have very powerful anti-depressant effects, and are used for REALLY REALLY treatment resistant depression.
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Source?
 
well im not a opiate head but imo the main problem would be the addiction potential that comes with them

i agree with you that they are mood stimulants and though i've never done oxycodone, i know many people say it is stimulating, just as some other opiates

red22 said:
Source?
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man do you really need a source to conclude that opioids have antidepressant properties? i mean not the 'antidepressant' they use today as in SSRIs and SNRIs. in a more obvious meaning. you just said they are 'great mood stimulants'

also yeah i believe anything is better than today's 'antidepressants'. they are ridiculous.
 
red22 said:
Not in my experience. Only in higher doses. Caffeine may be a stimulant, but its not a good mood stimulant, and that's an important facet of one's energy level. Opiates, by contrast, are great mood stimulants.




Source?
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Opiates are mood stimulants but they certainly aren't stimulants. If you are tired and drink a 5 hour hydrocodone energy, you might feel your mood lifted but you for sure aren't going to be any more awake than you were.
 
A depressed, opioid naive person is going to be pretty happy on an opioid dose at first, but a few weeks down the road it won't be enough. My ex-wife is on 200 mg of methadone per day and she still suffers from major depression. No amount of opioid will resolve her mood issues.
 
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