Fun question; Does LSD feel more like a tryptamine or phenethylamine?

[al-laddin]

I actually JUST discovered today that LSD contains both tryptamine and phenethylamine backbones in its structure. Wow! So that's what an erogoline is? Basically a combination of both, eh? That really blows my mind. No wonder its got such a different feel than either of these mentioned families.

That being said, Ive always thought that LSD more resembled mescaline than psilocybin as a whole experience. For me the LSD stimulation , the crystal clear headspace, bright colorful geometry and the lucid visual characteristics are more mescaline like. Also the longer duration definitely is not characteristic of tryptamine. Now there are some tryptamine qualities in LSD that mescaline does not possess but they don't stand out as much for me. The writhing crawling twisting body "high" I get from psilocybes is completely unique from from both LSD and Mesc. But, with my limited experience of with phens , I would say that the body buzz is closer to LSD than psilocybin.

Interestingly enough, for me LSZ actually resembled psilocybin a bit more than LSD does. It had a more lethargic "relaxed" headspace/body load. So perhaps not all ergolines will have the mescaline feel for me.

So I ask you guys, LSD more phen-like or more trypy?

 

[perpetualdawn]

I'm going to cop out and say both and neither. I really think of LSD (and now al-lad and lsz) as being in the third category; lysergemides. I wish Shulgin had made a whole LIHKAL instead of putting them in TIHKAL!

If I had to pick one bucket or the other, I guess I'd put it in the T category tho. Scratch that... it's both.. Neither.. It's a lysergemide

 

[kyt]

Agreed with above fully, and like shulgin and Hoffman would put it down as a tryptamine if forced to choose.

 

[Solipsis]

I think there are more similarities to the tryptamine class, but this whole question is a set-up that invites oversimplification focusing too much on that part. While the reality, as is already mentioned, is that it is a lysergamide, so we ought to focus on the fact that it bears similarities to other psychedelics while also being different.

 

[al-laddin]

I wonder if theres a tryp /phen combo that can reproduce a pseudo ergoline experience? Perhaps 2c-e and 4-ho-met. 2 parts phen 1 parts tryptamine? Hmmmm...just speculating ....for some reason this interesting fact about lsd never made it to my ears.

I just wondering why it was just "thrown" into the tryptamine category all these years. What I was trying to say though, is that while LSD is different than both tryps and phens , from subjective experience it resembles phens more for me aesthetically , lucidity and stimulation...emotionally and psychologically the head space is quite a bit different than mescaline, however.

Im looking forward to experiencing a lucid, clear tryptamine some day. maybe that could change my opinion.

 

[jason7]

I'd have to say phens, due to the long duration, except for the 2C-X compounds with short duration like 2C-E. But generally a tryptamine will be short duration and a phen will be long. However, what makes LSD different from both is the lack of nausea and other disturbing physical effects like muscle tension. It does cause me some tremors though, but usually not as bad as tryps and phens.

 

[perpetualdawn]

^2c-e short lasting? Its like a 9-12 hour commitment that's long for me anyways

 

[Roger&Me]

lsd is totally in its own category.

 

[sekio]

LSD is an ergoline and calling it either a phenethylamine or a tryptamine is a gross oversimplification. It's not "a combination of both" any more than a minivan is a combination of a sofa set and a dune buggy.

If you're going to be picky, it's an indole like tryptamines are, so that's why it shows in TiHKAL and not PiHKAL. Chemically speaking LSD is more of a tryptamine, but it has many qualities that tryptamines don't. For instance ergoloids can have rather strong activities at dopamine receptors that tryptamines lack, and the conjugated planar polycyclic structure of lysergic acid derivatives results in generally higher affinities for the dopamine/serotonin receptors, longer durations and less susceptibility to MAO than lots of tryptamines.

 

[al-laddin]

I'd have to say phens, due to the long duration, except for the 2C-X compounds with short duration like 2C-E. But generally a tryptamine will be short duration and a phen will be long. However, what makes LSD different from both is the lack of nausea and other disturbing physical effects like muscle tension. It does cause me some tremors though, but usually not as bad as tryps and phens.

That's funny because the only time Ive ever vomited from a psychedelic was from acid...I believe it was a string dose and I had eaten right after dropping the hit.. oh the 90s....such killer acid back then its unreal.

 

[jason7]

^2c-e short lasting? Its like a 9-12 hour commitment that's long for me anyways

Okay, in that case definitely phen. And I guess the presence of a tryptamine part in the molecule doesn't mean all that much, since Ibogaine also has a tryptamine part but is quite different from normal tryptamines, lasting a few days. I think LSD would actually be closer to the psychedelic phenylisopropylamines than the phenethylamines.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

Feels more like a phenethylamine to me. It has more colourful and powerful visuals and as well has very little mindfuck.
Tryptamines to me have an earthy natural feeling as in objects tend to breath and melt opposed to phenethylamines where things tend to warp their dimensions and change colour.

 

[al-laddin]

Holy Toast wouldn't you agree however that the "cosmic" emotional headspace separates LSD from phens? Also with phens my visuals seem more superimposed into exiting objects but with LSD they more commonly are patterns and holograms "superimposed" over my field of vision. What phens would you say have a more LSD like headspace. For me 25c lacked any headspace character at all but did have some LSD like attributes. Mescaline has a earthy natural sort of feeling...different from the tryptamine version which to me is more being forced into another dimension..

 

[kingme]

If i had to choose, "gun to the head" situation, one or the other, id say tryptamine. Phens dont have the same magic or spiritual depth to them.

But then again, tryptamines come in so many forms...

 

[al-laddin]

^^^ Interesting I find mescaline to produce a spiritual experience far more reliably than LSD. The latter will certainly produce a magical experience but mescaline is more "grounded" and earthy , if you will. LSD allows me to guide the experience a bit more

 

[tacodude]

Lsd does have significant dopamine activity compared to 4-po-dmt and other common trypts. Based on that it is more similar to phens, but it does not feel the same at all. Phens leave me feeling empty and weightless yet full of energy while trypts leave me feeling like I've been bloated and weighed down with energy if that makes any sense...

Edit: I'll add lsd is in the middle. Mentally it leaves me feeling the same as a trypt yet physically feels less constrainted and guided and more bouncy and weightless.