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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread v. 19

I doubt you can smoke the butrans patches effectively. Sigh, somebody again wants to smoke something not made to be smoked. There's no gel like the fentanyl patches. My grandma wears a 20ug patch every 24 hours for her arthritis. And I've seen em and had no inkling in wanting to trade her one for a quarter of a 2mg pill.

I don't understand what it is you failed. When I was induced, I was at 39mg of methadone which I had reduced the dosage of by 2-3mg at every monthly appointment and then at 39 they felt that if I didn't use any for 48 hours, I would be fine to be induced. They had me in the one room that is for outpatient induction, I stayed 4 hours the first morning, where she gave me 2mg, waited 2 hours, I was fine, gave me another 2mg, I was fine 2 hours later and then left. Did the same the next day, but it was 4mg then 4mg 2 hours later and it all went fine. I saw the doctor who scripted me 10mg a day and yep that was it. Do you mean they didn't detect enough opiates in you and said well, right now your addiction is only psychological with some slight discomfort...that's what they did with me the first time, their appointment was so late, I was fine enough to go through it with a clonidine script and hmm, something against stomach discomfort, I forget the name for it, they said, if we put you on methadone now, we'd be committing quite a mistake, and yep, it would have been.

I shoulda expanded a bit. As i am in canada gettin inyo managment is a lil tougher. I was on waiting list for 7 weeks jus to get in for an apt Im the first to comein for loperamide treatment at my clinic so im being treated as a different case. They told me to dose last on the wed assuming my wds wpuld be enough to start the suboxone induction. I epwrience very real physical and mental symptoms trust me. Im not here to argue about how lope does or doesnt affect people though.

Im more curious about anyone who has used a butrans patch until they were on suboxone pills and how it worked for them. If it worked for them or if they ended up using thier doc ontop until properly induced as my dr did not want to put me in perciptaded wds or leave my hanging with absolutly nothing over long weekend wwhich is why i wasn inducted on fri(they couldn't figure out proper half life on lope to be sure i wouldn go theu precipitated wds. I had proper opaites in .y syatem too ao that wasn the issue jus lookin for insight to the patches and maitnence. I wasalso scripted clonidine didn help much.
 
Also i didn want to smoke i was just that desperate for any relief which it disn peovide anyway
 
I have been reading all the horror stories about suboxone withdrawl taking over 3 weeks and sometimes more than a month. I'm hoping to get some positive stories from some of the readers here about their experiences after getting off. I have been on Bupe for over 10 years and right now I'm taking 4mg a day (was at 6mg/day last week). Following the taper chart, I should be down to .06mg by November and my doctor would give me Valium, Clonidine, and even Tramadol if I want. Is it crazy to expect a less than 2 week recovery after the jump off point when you consider the last dosage and the medications that I will have at my disposal? I understand that everyone is different and that no two people are the same, but I'm just trying to stay hopeful here because a lot of the stories I've been reading are very disconcerting. I just hope that all those stories are from authors who jumped off at 2mg or some other high dose.

It's been a while since I've been on this board and I'm happy that people are still dedicated to harm reduction and drug education. Thanks in advance everyone!
 
I shoulda expanded a bit. As i am in canada gettin inyo managment is a lil tougher. I was on waiting list for 7 weeks jus to get in for an apt Im the first to comein for loperamide treatment at my clinic so im being treated as a different case. They told me to dose last on the wed assuming my wds wpuld be enough to start the suboxone induction. I epwrience very real physical and mental symptoms trust me. Im not here to argue about how lope does or doesnt affect people though.

Im more curious about anyone who has used a butrans patch until they were on suboxone pills and how it worked for them. If it worked for them or if they ended up using thier doc ontop until properly induced as my dr did not want to put me in perciptaded wds or leave my hanging with absolutly nothing over long weekend wwhich is why i wasn inducted on fri(they couldn't figure out proper half life on lope to be sure i wouldn go theu precipitated wds. I had proper opaites in .y syatem too ao that wasn the issue jus lookin for insight to the patches and maitnence. I wasalso scripted clonidine didn help much.

I'm Canadian too. That means little since Provinces have all rights and responsabilities when it comes to Health (or at least how it is applied, Health Canada only approves or disapproves drugs, and generally is a lot more scientific and less biased by the intense lobbying in American over the FDA (EXCEPTION : WE WERE PROMISED SUBUTEX, and then they were intensely lobbied by Rickket-Buckeiser or whatever their german name is fooling them into believing the naloxone combination hype).

My experience is one of a Quebecois, that's how I was induced to Suboxone at the local hospital (which thankfully is in my town, the only hospital with an ORT clinic for this town of 200 000 people and the rest of the region, which is quite large, which adds up to 320 000 people or so, I'm sad for the people who live in the farthest western area of our region, some have to take a 1h30 drive every month for their appointment. I'm curious, but I wouldn't be surprised, do you live in Alberta or Saskatchewan? They NEVER use BuTrans patches at my ORT clinic, simply not strong enough for any opiate addict, christ the strongest is 20ug/hour. What would help is if like all other developed nations (other than the US, but still, they have Buprenex 0.3mg IM ampoules and some are scripted that for pain in the US, not just for animals) and we would have Temgesic (which are 0.2 and 0.4mg pills bupe pills). That would be a huge help for when I get down to under 4mg. I'm tapering very slowly, just adjusting to 12mg to 10mg took me 4 months and I still have weeks (got all my takehomes) where I'll have to live a day without any bupe, mostly because of the one dose I have to take at the pharmacy of 10mg, which I rarely take one shot like that, I rather have 4-6mg in the morning and another 4-6mg in the evening, so still 12mg half of the week for me. It's also a crutch, when I have the idea of taking an extra valium or restoril, I pop a 2mg suboxone instead, as benzo wd is several times worse than opi withdrawal. It's not overall worse than day 3-7 of an opiate addiction cut cold turkey, but it's its own kind of hell which is actually a lot more dangerous.

As for lope, never helped me when my pharmie dealer didn't want me to visit, couldn't drive to my house and the other 50 000 reasons he would have just when I was close to withdrawal, but when I was just fine and had still a lot of the oxys or HM Contins or dilaudid he would sell me, he'd call me, close to harassment saying he had a lot of this or that, I'd say, well if you got so many, would you lower the price per pill and it was almost always a resounding NO. And he was so out of it himself at times, he would invent debts, then when I started yelling that I didn't owe him shit or not as much as he thought, you should have seen the agenda in which he kept his tabs on his customers, unreadable crap, he would be unable to even understand his own writings, so then I started writing all of our transactions on a text file on my phone and he would still try to say I missed some and such. Goddamn old man, but what can you do, the people who are scripted many strong opiates are often people 50+ who worked in construction until their body were majorly broken. Anyway, you're kinda committing an error in all cases, I know for sure that they would not help anyone who's addicted to lope at my clinic in Some Medium Sized Industrial Northern Town, Quebec.

Straight to your point : maybe the strongest BuTrans could help for something like lope addiction, which is still so hilarious to me...but count how much bupe you'd get from 20ug an hour. BuTrans is strictly reserved for medium chronic pain. Doctors love to script this to very old people who aren't suffering from Cancer but have heart issues so NSAIDs are contra-indicated and how mild it is, less addictive than Empracets even (30mg codeine/300mg tylenol) pills, which are pretty standard for mild to medium pain not responding to NSAIDs or where NSAIDs would not help. Pretty much the throwaway opiate pill, like how hydrocodone+tylenol pills are used in the US.
 
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Thx for tbe detailed reply. Im in ab. And tbey are for sure giving me suboxone on tuesday jus gave the patch to try n help my wds over weekend. Theres only one govt clinic n one private clinic here in a city of over 1 mil im sure you can figure which one heh. But ya the latch first day didn help at all had to dose lope ontop to feel relief but i feel better today with a bit more in the system shuld be able to hold me till i go back to clinic tues morning. Funny thing is the leaflets with it say only for chronic pain for addicted paitients with high tolerances lol .
 
hey i am back. so my sub doctor is insisting that i take 24mg of subs a day. I went in and talked to him last Monday and told him i don't want to be on that high of a dose i want to get down to 8 mg a day with in a month starting at 16mg this week. he insisted that i need to stay on 24 mg for a few months to stabilize my dose. WTF!! so basically i just started taking 16 mg a day on my own i feel the same not one difference i still have a little craving but that is to be expected. i think this week i am going to go down to 10mg a day then next week down to 8mg. i don't understand why my sub doctor wouldn't drop my dose if i asked him to? i noticed that being on that high of a dose made my sex drive all fucked up. i had a lady friend over last week and i could not for the life of me finish it was really disappointing. that and i got super constipated like never before. this week i am excited to move down to 10mg!! =D
 
who cares what he wants to script you; take whatever but do what you think is best or is working best.

or you can just follow his directions and see if all works out. everyone is different but I just feel better/act better on lower dosage; esp. when it comes to getting "sexy" in the bedroom w/ the ladies, and I am only 33, so yea, lower the better over here.

but do whatever it takes to kill urges; I am on 6-8MG/day now and there are times the urge hits me. it will come out of no where and just feels like the right thing to do. its right there you either fuck up or you somehow break though and able to play out the day/night.

I've been doing good but coming off a relapse but whatever; life is a lotttt better now and I need to get over it.

back to sobriety for me.
 
The difference is startling between for-profit "health care" in the US and the rest of the "civilized world" on this point too. Here, they prefer for us to be on as low of methadone or suboxone as possible and want you to end as fast as possible, because it's money out of everyone's pocket, not to say that since I was there for the initial 6 days of methadone treatment in the very strict full of surveillance inpatient detox clinic, mixed in with every kind of addicts, cokeheads, alcoholics, methheads..I was the only one there who was starting an ORT treatment, old alcoholics and preppy young as fuck cokeheads really pissed me off, the only guy in my age bracket was the most depressed alcoholic in there who barely ever ate his food, the whole 6 days I was there. He had done it all, still had a never-going-away heroin trackmark on his arm, one still visible hole ffs that wouldn't repair all the way for some reason, freaked me out, but he was there because of just alcoholism. Now the kids don't have much access to clean LSD or MDMA or even clean meth pills (they get piped or even worse PMMA'd and a bunch of other bullshit half the time compared to a decade ago)there was a major explosion in people using the ORT clinic, they changed protocols and we don't even see the doctor unless we need to or if it's been a long time that we saw whoever's on the job that day. We see one of the nurses, it seems that since I'm such a good boy I get only the friendliest nurse in there everytime I go in and when I see the doctor, it's always the guy I get along with very much, just slightly older than me, he was a skater/punk/metalhead way back and he's also very smart, not like one of them who's such a bitch of an SS, that asking her for a different proton-pump inhibitor (it is them that put me on a PPI, since an alkaline stomach makes methadone work better, and I already had been on Nexium and Pantoprazole in the past. I asked for Rabeprazole 20mg and it was like if I asked her for a script for some Dillies, and she was stuck on the fact they scripted me Pantoprazole, but I told her no, later on Dr. XYZ switched me to Nexium later on (they got this huge binder for each patient) and making the decision to switch me to a different PPI was like an affront to her.

Anyways, I'm glad how things are now, I only see the doc I want to see, they barely pee test me anymore, since it's a waste of money, cos I proved I didn't fuck with meth, coke, alcohol and as for my benzos, I am allowed to be on them and they don't give a fuck about weed, when I toke, it's when my brother shows out of the blue from when he's back from wherever he was (one of those people who's job means sitting in an airliner 20 hours a week) and that otherwise I don't toke, which they saw it wasn't a regular thing, and they know how if I smoked 3 weeks ago, it might show up. When I got a sinusitis, I called them to tell them I bought some Sudafed and that if I have to do a piss test, I know it can cause a false positive for amps/meth, and sure enough it did. It's a kind of prison within a prison, but here showing you want to get better and they will help you a hell lot in case of bad side effects (like how it happened with methadone after 11 months on it for me, which caused me to need Suboxone and have the script have a code on it because I wasn't making enough money to support that med (now we have teva generics, who are also kinda expensive, but when I had boxed brand name Suboxones, fuck, a box of 7 8mg Sub and 7x2mg cost almost the same thing, yep, 2mg being as expensive as the 8mg...first time I see a drug where the lower dosages aren't cheaper. But yeah, can't say prices, but it's eye-popping expensive to pay for your own Suboxone, even if you pay your government insurance, it's not covered unless they write in a special code on the script.

Anyway, here they know that more suboxone isn't better, usually. Especially since I ended up there because I was on a constant opioid treatment for moderate to sometimes very harsh pain then that maxilofacial dentist retired on me without warning and I was fucked, so I got what I could from the ER with my documentation sometimes, and ended up finding an old guy who was on really strong shit (4x30mg HM Contins a day + 8x 4mg Dilaudid for breakthrough pain, that's a hell lot of hydromorphone so much that he really felt it orally, heh). All this to say, once I asked, "if I raised my 10mg a day to 12mg a day, it wouldn't help much for the pain right Doc?" and he told me not really, buprenorphine is limited for pain and I was like "yeah...in Europe they use it for pain, and they're 0.2 and 0.4mg pills, and my grandma wears a BuTrans patch, when I looked at the dosage, I saw that for people who haven't slipped into shooting 64mg of hydromorphone a day and such, the lower the dose of bupe, the better when it comes to pain.

At least they scripted me Fentanyl pills when I was in need of something for massive pain twice in 3 years 3/4 of ORT. First time I got a Fentapop. It helped with the pain but not until 5-6 days without taking the bupe would it not give me a massive headache to mix the 2 (well, I wasn't mixing anything, but the bupe was still in me). Well, good luck Ranchlands.
 
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Hey all hope everyone's ok! BBT hope you are hanging in there, sorry to hear about chemo, you are one strong man. I was thinking about that high dose too, I thought why not stockpile, then I thought, well depending on geographic location, some have to take it front of medical personel, so who knows. I had brush with relapse, like ya say, on to the sober life once again, I'm not gonna beat myself up, got my labs back and everything is wnl, onward. Good day all!
 
Hi, I have read almost all of the previous mega threads and am most of the way through this one. I don't remember seeing this answer anywhere. I feel like I should know already but I just want to be sure.
I have been on Subs for a while now and have been pretty successfully alternating between subs and heroin for a few months. Problem is, I ran into a little supply snafu and am beginning to feel withdrawls. I took only 75mg. of Tramadol a little while ago and it hasn't helped (didn't think it would but you know how desperate one can get at this stage.). I now have a chance to get a sub...go figure...isn't that the way it always works?
My question is, since I am still feeling withdrawls after taking the Tramadol, would it be safe to shoot my usual 1mg. of Sub? I'm hoping I'm not playing with fire and PW's...I imagine it could go either way but I'd like to hear some other opinions on it. I know 1mg. Isn't a lot but it is IV so that about triples the dosage when compared to sublingual. Do you think I'll be OK or is it worth suffering until I feel worse? I would usually be fine to induce at this stage in my withdrawl. Thanks in advance!
 
Thx for tbe detailed reply. Im in ab. And tbey are for sure giving me suboxone on tuesday jus gave the patch to try n help my wds over weekend. Theres only one govt clinic n one private clinic here in a city of over 1 mil im sure you can figure which one heh. But ya the latch first day didn help at all had to dose lope ontop to feel relief but i feel better today with a bit more in the system shuld be able to hold me till i go back to clinic tues morning. Funny thing is the leaflets with it say only for chronic pain for addicted paitients with high tolerances lol .

Weird, the official info I saw on say Canoe says it is for chronic low to medium pain, if there's a 5ug/hour patch...would make sense wouldn't it.
 
Hi, I have read almost all of the previous mega threads and am most of the way through this one. I don't remember seeing this answer anywhere. I feel like I should know already but I just want to be sure.
I have been on Subs for a while now and have been pretty successfully alternating between subs and heroin for a few months. Problem is, I ran into a little supply snafu and am beginning to feel withdrawls. I took only 75mg. of Tramadol a little while ago and it hasn't helped (didn't think it would but you know how desperate one can get at this stage.). I now have a chance to get a sub...go figure...isn't that the way it always works?
My question is, since I am still feeling withdrawls after taking the Tramadol, would it be safe to shoot my usual 1mg. of Sub? I'm hoping I'm not playing with fire and PW's...I imagine it could go either way but I'd like to hear some other opinions on it. I know 1mg. Isn't a lot but it is IV so that about triples the dosage when compared to sublingual. Do you think I'll be OK or is it worth suffering until I feel worse? I would usually be fine to induce at this stage in my withdrawl. Thanks in advance!

I hope it's not pilled Suboxone because shooting those is retarded (because of the inactives, even the best filters in the world won't take em out, try filtering lime and lemon juice literally.

You should be fine otherwise, 75mg Tramadol ain't shit, it's like if you had a few 60mg codeines.
 
I've dosed bupe on Tramadol-filled receptors. No pwd. It is largely considered as safe.

I'm only 75% sure though (based on my experience and the reported experience of others), so please start small just in case!

I should add that I can't feel tramadol at any dose, that might have SOMETHING to do with it, but I'm not sure exactly what...
 
its such a pain in the ass to drop from 8MG to 6MG because you have to cut the pills and use 1/4's and all that BS.

been on 8MG steady for 4-5 months and its going great; there are days where I will use 6MG and everything is fine but I always end up going back to 8MG because the cut is such a pain in the ass.

anyone else go through this? is it too much of a drop to go from 8MG to 4MG? I went from 16MG to 8MG w/ ease but I've done that many times. I've never really been below 4MG and always end up "slipping" at that 4MG mark; so I am in no rush but at the same time I have many other things going on in life right now and Suboxone is a bit if a hassle and costing me money I DO NOT HAVE (I see private Dr. $$$)
 
I'm new to this. But have been iv suboxone for a couple years. Can anyone tell me the absolute best method besides reducing dosage ? Cus it doesnt work for me
 
is it too much of a drop to go from 8MG to 4MG? I went from 16MG to 8MG w/ ease but I've done that many times. I've never really been below 4MG and always end up "slipping" at that 4MG mark; so I am in no rush but at the same time I have many other things going on in life right now and Suboxone is a bit if a hassle and costing me money I DO NOT HAVE (I see private Dr. $$$)

Going from 8-4mg a day is definitely possible but is a bit of a shock to your system IME (which is pretty extensive when it comes to subs and tapering. what I have always done is to divide my dose up into two dosages, one for the morning and one for the evening. This is partly because I always wake up so early, but also because I think it helps to taper when you dose twice a day-the idea being that while you may experience some withdrawal symptoms during the mid to late afternoon, you'll be able to sleep and be comfortable during the evening. Anyway I remembered the last time I started to taper down from 8mg I went from dosing 4mg-3mg 2x 24 hours. I could have probably jumped right down to two mg but I wasn't in a real rush, I had just gotten out of a five week hospitalization for a severe blood infection. From 6 I dropped to 4, then 3, then 2, then 1.5, then 1 (which was as low as I got before I met a girl who bought me a bunch of smack and let me screw her (thanks ALOT bitch, way to fuck with my taper lol).

I should mention it took me 3 days to adjust to the new reduced dosage (you really start to feel the deficit under[\i] 4mg as for most, this will be around the point where suboxone said agonist effects plateau, so when you dose 2-3mg instead, your leaving some receptors empty.

Day 1 of the reduced dose was always bearable but boring as I wouldn't get any little buzz from my dose (no matter what dose I'm on bumped tends to have an antidepressant effect on me and some times a stimulant one too).

Day 2 however, would be where the real struggle was imo it's the "hump" if you got gabapentin or are a fan of amphetamines these will come in handy to get you through this rough 24 hour period. I would just barely feel the subs at all when I took them and four or five hours later ID be withdrawing and trying to keep myself busy for as long as possible because I'd want to put off my second dose as late as I could to ensure.

And then, every time, by day 3, ID wake up, dose, and I'd feel my suboxone again. The afternoon would still be a little rough, but bar able, and by day four I felt my newly reduced dose as strong (or actually stronger) as the previous dose. I
Should definitely mention that I gave myself 1 weeks time to fully stabilize (I had a reason once upon a time, had something to do with half life and elimination time in accords with Buprenorphine) before further reducing my dose. i believe the reason that it takes three days to adjust to the new dose is that by that time the previous dose has been cut in half twice (worded poorly, what I mean to say is that buprenorphines half life is 36 hours, meaning say your on 4mg, after 36 hours you'll have 2mg left in your system and after 3days or 72 hours you'll have 1mg) and as the days go by you stabilize more and more as the previous blood concentration levels are eliminated.

Sorry for the lecture I just took my morning dose of Buprenorphine and coffee so I'm a bit buzzed. As for cutting up the pill, what are you on? The orange stop signs or generic subutex? I ask because if you're on Suboxone than you should ask for the strips, they're far easier to work with than the stop signs, but if you have a preference for subutex or just the pills in general what I used to do was cut the pill in half by the score and then to further divide it, crush each half down into a powder and divide it into however many equal looking lines I desired. The Buprenorphine in subutex to and suboxone is evenly distributed so you don't have to worry about cold and hot spots (to use dope terminology). Either that, or if you have a preservative you can dissolve the suboxone (it's soluble at 17mg/1mL of water) and water measure it for 100% accuracy. The only other option is to buy a scale.

BTW

I've also heard that once under 4mg you can taper rather easily if you drop your dose by 25% each week.

can anyone tell me the best method besides reducing dosage ? Cus it doesn't work for me

What does this mean? I want to help but your post confused me a but.
 
BBT I second znegative, lowering from 8 to 4 I was getting sick at 1mg tapers every damn time. prob too much at a time but once I got to 4 I was able to get down to the 1/2mg I'm on now w/ not 1 w/d flare up. Maybe some depression/anxiety but shit I'll take that everyday over no sleep having to constantly throwup take showers n constantly shaking
 
I am on 8MG/day along w/ 1600/MG GABA, 4000MG Keppra, 1MG/Xanny (if needed) or 1000MG/Seroquel (if needed) when it comes to other meds/sleep meds.

I think those would make the taper much easier.

For some reason, I really am in NO RUSH to get off these Suboxone but for whatever reason I want to see if I can do it. I have no one pushing me, no problems getting the pills, no woman/sex/any issues, but yet I went to get off Suboxone.

to be honest, I have a brain tumor/grade 2, and I have to take many meds with the tumor itself; so taking a pill a day is no problem but, again, for whatever reason, I want to try and see if I can get past Suboxone. any one else do it for this reason? just to see if they can do it?

btw, to those who got off Suboxone and was finally off EVERYTHING, did you actually FEEL GOOD? FEEL ANY BETTER? TELL ME?
 
I've gotten off suboxone before jumped off of it at 2mg after maybe four months of 24-32mg/day. This was years ago (2007) when there wasn't as much knowledge on suboxone, at the same time it was my first real kick and as we all know, it gets harder every time along with age (I was 19 then, am 27 now) however I can say that after two weeks I felt good the depression had lifted and it was like there was no PAWS, much easier than quitting methadone (which I did a year later and that took months to feel 'good').

I'm not sure how I'd react now, I'm actually quite good at suffering through horrendous withdrawals when I'm faced with no choice but cold turkey, but I don't know how long the acute withdrawals will last down the line when I decide to discontinue the suboxone (I just got on it exactly one week ago) this time.

One thing that's cool about subs is that while you're on them they actually do significantly lower your tolerance (unless you were an unfortunate hydro addict placed on a sixteen milligram regiment) but I remember the last time I was on subs for a while I tapered down to 1mg SL a day and then relapsed on heroin and it was like my tolerance was practically back to baseline (I'm one of the few who started their opiate career with heroin so I never had a low baseline tolerance, but I could get trashed off half a bag of not even good quality east coast heroin.


Anyway, I've been really struggling in regards to what I want to do in terms of dosing and ROA, I've been on the subs for 7-8 days and the first few days I took 6-12mg SL, and was disappointed with the lack of relief I felt. I then went to plugging 2mg 4xday, and while at first this seemed to be 'the way' it relied too much on whether I'd taken a shit recently, how much water I used etc...I then took an 8mg film all at once the next day and got great results from that, I almost got a nod out of it and felt completely content, but after so many years of tapering myself down to tiny ass dosages of Buprenorphine I've refused to repeat taking all 8mg at once, so I'll do 4in the morning and then two in the afternoon and another two before bed, which has been working out OK (again it seems like sometimes I'll get great relief and a subtle buzz off the shit and then other times I get nothing). I feel like a big problem is not sticking to a dose and a ROA. I should probably take 6mg in the morning SL and two at night to help with sleep and stay with that for a few weeks to just stabilize instead of just being all over the place. Because since my goal is to really taper down to about 1-2mg a day, I know I can't even begin that taper until I feel comfortable with a consistent level of Buprenorphine in my blood. Anyone else have a hard time excepting they may just need to be on a dose higher than 8mg for a little while? It's so stupid that I'm giving myself such a hard time about this, it's like I feel guilty for beings on 'too high' of a dose, when really 8mg isn't even all that much.
 
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