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☛ Official ☚ The Big & Dandy Methoxmetamine / MXM Thread

I didn't make any wild assumptions.
Who said you did? It's just pointless to play guessing games when you know your making possible connections that could be there but at the same time might not. Then less knowledgeable users take this as fact and spread it like wild fire. At that point were back aay the fact that some people still think MXE has relevant affinity for mu receptors.
 
Who said you did?

Transform did:

"most likely"?
Methoxetamine was not found to be a dopamine agonist.

I do not think we should be making ANY assumptions about its pharmacology given the single flawed datapoint we currently have.

I don't think it's an assumption to point out that the NMDA channel site and the dopamine D2high site are pretty much inseparable.
 
Report from an anonymous contributor:

I recently received a gram of this substance from a US vendor. The material has not had it's identity confirmed via third party testing as far as I know and, shame on me, I did not perform any reagent tests (do as I say, Bluelight, not as I do: buy a test kit, check your drugs. If you have money for drugs, you have money for a test kit). Needless to say, I can not definitively confirm that I have received the chemical advertised, but subjective effects are distinctive enough that I feel fairly confident in asserting that the material was not MXE.

Allergy testing and titration occurred over a period of several days. General dissociative tolerance is moderate; however, my personal awareness of altered states of consciousness seems to be somewhat greater than the typical drug user. All doses were sublingual unless otherwise noted. All notes were recorded after the conclusion of testing.

Threshold effects noted with doses in the 5-10mg range, but placebo can not be ruled out.

Doses in the 20-25mg range produced definite ++ effects: slight degradation of motor coordination and a mild dissociative stimulation began around 30m and started to taper off somewhere between 60-90min.

A dose of 60mg produced +++ effects which rose quickly to a plateau between 60-90min. The body felt heavy, whereas with MXE the body feels light. The mind seemed to quiet and turn inward. The environment took on a shimmering quality reminiscent of low dose LSD, but more dim as if seen through a haze. It is hard to say from the one trial at this level, but with eyes closed I sensed rather than saw geometric patterns and shapes which somehow still seemed more concrete compared to the ethereal visions produced by MXE. However, this aspect of the experience requires further investigation.

The urge to redose with this chemical is similar to that of MXE, but my first thoughts are that it is not as effective. Several hours after a 60mg dose, an additional 100mg failed to produce effects of equivalent intensity to the initial dose. I did not actually check my vitals, but at some point after the 100mg dose I seemed to notice an elevated heart rate.

After additional experimentation and titration, doses of 80mg plugged and 40mg oral (capped) were consumed concurrently. The duration of this experience was roughly similar to what I would expect with similar doses and ROA of MXE with a slightly shortened peak, but the mixed ROAs make measuring the peak somewhat difficult and the ratio of doses needs a little tweaking (maybe 3:2 plugged : oral). I find a similar dosing regimen ideal with MXE for producing a prolonged hole-like peak.

In the above trial, it became quite clear to me that this substance is more sedating, quietly introspective, and visual (in a manner reminiscent of the "third plateau" of DXM or perhaps low dose ketamine) than with MXE. The experience is also somewhat more uncomfortable physically, with a hint of nausea and gas and some slight muscle tremors. The robowalk is strong with this one.

Around 40mg of sublingual MXE were added to the plugged trial sometime around the two hour mark. The two seemed to synergize well and there may have been some potentiation of the MXE although it is hard to say. The MXE seemed to add some warmth to the experience.

First impressions are that those looking for a replacement for either ketamine or MXE will be disappointed, but I could see a promising future for this chemical if it is sought after for what it is. I don't really have enough experience with ketamine to draw any comparisons there, but if I had to grossly over-simplify this thing I would say that the effects lie somewhere between MXE and DXM, with a duration roughly equivalent to MXE. I would haphazardly guess that MXM is about 80% as potent as MXE. If anyone has any questions I'll do my best to answer them.
 
Thanks anonymous poster, this is valuable information. :)
 
I'll be getting some in a couple weeks and will report my findings. Not expecting a Ketamine/MXE replacement, just a different disso to try. Look forward to new reports as it seems while still legal in EU, those vendors have now moved on. I honestly got bored of MXE so I look forward to trying this.
 
This is pretty exciting. Sounds like not redosing this one is going to be a little tricky given the disappointingly short duration and marked elation MXM provides...

Speaking of SAR, I would not think that serotonin reuptake inhibition is responsible for this compound's euphoric potential. AFAIK typical SSRI do not produce improvement in mood short term, rather it is downregulation of serotonin transporters due to chronic SSRI exposure that really is responsible for their antidepressant action. Serotonin reuptake enhancers, on the other hand (like tienaptine), exert their euphoric potential immediately upon administration and do not require prolonged administration to alleviate depression. My guess is that DARI could produce the euphoric feeling; this explains why tolerance to speed would prevent MXM from working, and also why it is so short-acting.

Pretty interesting that it appears to be inactive nasally. Perhaps it is MXM's first-pass metabolite that hits the receptors?

You're sort of on the right lines, SSRI's down-regulate 5ht1a receptors which is responsible for their supposed potential in treating some cases of anxiety, where too much 5ht1a activity could be to blame. However serotonin itself is a mood elevator, pure SSRIs and SSRAs do exert immediate anti-depressant effects, and down-regulation of your serotonin receptors has an opposite effect, one of increased depression. That's why long term SSRI use leaves users with a long recovery period to get back to themselves.

That said SRIs and SRAs aren't exactly "euphoric", they're more "comfy", "relaxing", "sedating" and "social-bond-inducing" - dopamine as you suggested is responsible for the majority of the euphoria from what we currently know anyway in the case of most drugs, dopamine is where the push and rush tend to come from.

That said there are certain drugs that only act indirectly upon dopamine function or not on it at all that are still incredibly euphoric and so one should not automatically assume that euphoria == DRI. The only studies so far out for Methoxetamine showed it only to have SRI action, and no DARI action, and yet it is quite the euphoric one - it's possible things were missed or errors were made in the studies but again there's Ketamine which isn't a DRI to any notable extent which I find more euphoric than any other dissociative.

Plain NMDA antagonism can be pretty damn euphoric. Escapism and exploring entirely new realms is something the human mind likes - we like novelty. That said I believe all NMDA antagonists I know of have some affinity for D2 receptors which could also produce some of the euphoria.

Being a DARI also would not impact duration, there are DARIs that last for 16-24 hours, and DARIs that last for 30 minutes, unless you mean as a result of this speed tolerance, but I doubt this would be a factor, PCP and its analogues have notable dopaminergic activity and do not seem to show cross-tolerance with stimulants.

Honestly my guess for the "speed preventing MXM working" theory would simply be the substances both being in the system at once. Stimulants and dissociatives taken together have a counter-active effect, while they will not completely 100% eliminate a large dissociative dose from your system, they can take a pretty big whack at it. That's why substances like PCP and 3-MeO-PCP have horror stories attached to them, because they're stimulants and dissociatives rolled into one - and so even at high doses there's not quite enough sedation or dissociation to knock you down to the floor, but just enough adjoined to plenty of mania to have you wanting to run around the streets naked shouting about the elves you just met. ;)
 
So reports seem to suggest that this one is mildly sedating. Do we know what exactly is responsible for the stimulating properties of MXE and 3-meo-pcp? Is it the SRI properties? That seems to be the major difference between ketamine and mxe pharmacologically and ketamine is not at all stimulating whereas mxe and 3-meo-pcp can be quite stimulating. Perhaps them MXM doesn't have any interaction with serotonin? I don't know anything about SAR so this isn't at all an educated guess. With regards to dopamine I recall reading somewhere that dopamine antagonists did not stop self administration of MK-801 in rats so the contribution of dopamine agonism to the euphoric effects of NMDA antagonists is questionable. I suspect that the euphoria felt from dissociatives depends highly on the individual, just like some people don't find benzos to be euphoric whereas those with anxiety disorders can find them quite euphoric. It's certainly true that many people hate the feeling of dissociation.
 
Less potent is probably a good thing for a mass market dissociative RC.

I'm looking forward to trying this, but it sounds a bit disappointing as an MXE replacement, especially as the cost per gram is roughly the same.
 
I'm surprised there's not more MXM trip reports by now. It seems to be available through a number of channels now. Is everyone, like me, waiting for more experience reports before trying it themselves?
 
I've got an order for this coming.
Can anyone give me their thoughts on IM? This should be effective like with Ketamine i'm guessing.

Is there anything particularly dangerous possibly left over from the synth which would discourage IM?
I will only IM after allergy test and with micron filter ofcourse.

Edit: I just read the report on the second page. I think i will go with rectal instead even though i like the needle the added risks with an unknown compound seem very unnecessary.
 
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I'm surprised there's not more MXM trip reports by now. It seems to be available through a number of channels now. Is everyone, like me, waiting for more experience reports before trying it themselves?

I'm on the fence. The source I used to get MXE from only has MXM now. I can source MXE from another source, but can't decide what to do with the ban looming and all. I have a high MXE tolerance so I'm kinda worried MXM which is priced the same would be a waste of cash.

So yea, I'm waiting for more reports and my MXE sources to dry up before I use the replacement. The euphoria people speak of intrigues me quite a bit along with sedation. I love downers. I dunno, I may order some MXM today.
 
I would say that MXM is definitely less euphoric than MXE. I wouldn't really call it sedating but it is definitely more "couch-locky" than MXE. It is a bit more uncomfortable than the MXE experience. As an MXE replacement it falls short, but as a ketamine replacement it is probably closer to the mark than MXE is/was; however, the effects are still probably more akin to those produced by MXE than by ketamine, at least in terms of duration and intensity. A sublingual dose of 100mg yesterday had me floored similar to probably 60-80mg of MXE.
 
I would say that MXM is definitely less euphoric than MXE. I wouldn't really call it sedating but it is definitely more "couch-locky" than MXE. It is a bit more uncomfortable than the MXE experience. As an MXE replacement it falls short, but as a ketamine replacement it is probably closer to the mark than MXE is/was; however, the effects are still probably more akin to those produced by MXE than by ketamine, at least in terms of duration and intensity. A sublingual dose of 100mg yesterday had me floored similar to probably 60-80mg of MXE.

Well I do like Ketamine a lot, so perhaps this is worth trying. So it's not a double dose? More like 50% more than an MXE dose?

What was uncomfortable about it?
 
I would say there is the possibility of some nausea, a sort of pressure in the front of the head that may leave you with a headache, coordination is affected more strongly, and a greater likelihood of feeling out of sorts and a little uneasy. Generally a bit darker, probably with a greater propensity for psychotic thoughts than with MXE. Then again I've been overdoing it with the MXE lately so take that all with a grain of salt.

I've said before that I have very little experience with ketamine so I can't make a lot of comparisons there, but to me the high is somewhat reminiscent of DXM. YMMV.

I wouldn't jump in to a double dose of what you'd normally take with MXE. Maybe double a threshold dose, but as someone who still gets effects from as little as 20mg of MXE I wouldn't go much higher than that for a first trial with MXM (after reagent and allergy tests of course ;) ).
 
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^^ Thank you. I think I'll continue to try to source MXE until it's either really hard to get or we get more MXM reports from folks with Ketamine exp.

Thanks for sharing the side effects you felt and warning me not to dive all the way in ;)
 
I don't mean to emphasize the negative, I just think it's important to be aware of. I do think that MXM will prove to be a worthwhile dissociative in its own right, I've just been kind of reckless lately and haven't really run the sort of controlled trials that would allow me to pinpoint it's value.
 
Thanks for the report Mundane. I really hope it's not too similar or cold as DXM though. I've given up trying to source MXE (never tried it). I really have high hopes for MXM.
 
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