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gabopentin/neutontin vs suboxone?

mommalette1010

mommalette1010

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Joined
May 15, 2013
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I have tried a few times to come off an addiction to heroin and dilaudids on my own either with tapering or cold turkey and have failed each time. Now I'm inlisting the help of an IOP (Intensive Outreach Program). The doctor at this program has giving me the option of either quiting with the gabopentin/nerurontin starting at 100mg 3x daily or 2mg up to 8mg a day of suboxone. I only became addicted to heroin and dilaudids because at the time I started I had no health insurance and my level of pain was more than I could handle but now I have insurance. So I'm trying to get clean so maybe my doctor could help me with my pain. My question is which route would be best for me to go and which would be better at helping with my pain so that I don't relapse?
 
Well if you're commited to getting clean in the near future I would go with the gabapentin. Switching on to a long acting opiate is only really a useful way of doing things if you need to introduce stability to your life and intend on maintaining for a period imo.

I used pregabalin (which is basically gabapentins bigger brother) for a recent detox (from 24mg bupe) along with lofexidine and they made the process really quite bearable, if not pleasant. Maybe ask if you can have pregabalin instead of gabapentin? Gabapentin is supposed to be very good for wd as well though.

I've got no experience with jumping from street opiates to a quick bupe taper so I can't really speak with first hand experience about what that's like, but I would have thought it's going to make the whole process longer and more protracted. You're going to have to titrate the dose over the period of a few days until you're covered and then taper from there I guess. Have you got any more info about what the process would be like if you chose the bupe route?

Anyway, I guess the long and short of what I'm saying is that gabapentin/pregabalin are really wonder drugs for opiate detox and if your heart is in getting clean I can recommend this route. It's not going to be painless but it will get you clean quickly without being raped physically. That dosage seems quite low though, I was using 1800mg pregabalin daily (which I know is overload) but 300mg of gabapentin daily is quite a low amount given that you can get 800mg tablets. Maybe ask if you can have a higher dose? If you go that route I think it's fair to ask for a higher dose. Or maybe ask about pregabalin instead of gabapentin?

If you go that route speak to your doctor and say you're commited to getting clean without using opiates but feel the dosage is too low, it's not an unreasonable request. Limiting you to 300mg gabapentin daily when he's prepared to give you 8mg bupe daily doesn't make much sense, that's really not an equivalent prescription in terms of how well it will deal with wd symptoms. You would be taking the 'harder' route than if you were using bupe so it's not unreasonable to say hey I'm prepared to cut off from the opiates dead I just feel the dose isn't right. Ask about (or obtain illegally) some sleepers as well. Again, a few weeks worth of zolpidem or temazepam is not an unreasonable request. Just make sure you don't use them daily for more than a few weeks.

I don't know if that's of any use to you but it's my two pence. If you can get a doc to script you clonidine (I don't think you can get lofexidine in the US but clonidine works in a simmilar way) then that would really have you set up for a bearable detox and I would definitely vouch for a combination of gabapentin/pregabalin and clonidine/lofexidine. It's pretty difficult to get scripted lofexidine in the UK for some reason even though it has no abuse potential so I don't know if it will be easy to get clonidine in the US. Either way if you don't choose the bupe then you've kind of got a bargaining tool in that you're choosing the non-opiate route which shows you're really serious about getting clean.

I'm rambling now as usual but if you have any more questions ask away!:)
 
That was a bunch of useful info, thanks for the reply. I'm worried about the gabopentin because I heard it could make you drowsy which usually means I go into a coma which I can't because I'm the soul privider for my kids. Subs dont make me tired, actually they do the opposite. I've gotten them from a "friend" last time I tried to kick it and it helped with my pain and didn't knock me oit. The only reason she chose such a low dose of the gabopentin is my fear of being knocked out. I have the option of trying the gabopentin and if its not helping moving onto the subs. Would that be someting worth trying?
 
Thank you for your input. You've given me somethings to research. I'll be sure to update when I figure out what I'm doing. Any more advice will only help me. Thanks
 
I've decided to go with the subs. I know what they do to me and how I'll react which puts me at ease just a bit. I start tomorrow thankfully, WDs are not treating me well.
 
How long have you been in wd for?

Are you actually looking to detox or are the subs going to be a maintainance thing?
 
The last time I took anything was last Saturday and I was started on 4 mg of suboxone today. I am thinking if they help with my pain then I'll probably be on them for a while, at least untill my doctor actually listens to me and realizes I'm in real pain and not just trying to get drugs. I would prefer my doctor to figure out why I'm in so much pain and how to stop me from being in pain. I'd much rather be pain free because the problem was found and treated than to be on any kinds of drugs long term, legal or otherwise.
 
Hi everyone. This is my first time posting on this site so bear w me. I can relate to you mommalette. I have had 3 surgeries and I am due for another one and I have been addicted to opiates for a solid 5-6 years now. Started w low dose percs, jumped to the high dose pretty quickly, started taking roxys (30mg), than I was taking a good 3-4 30mgs a day until I switched to heroine. Being in pain all the time is exhausting both physically and mentally and the dope numbed all of that. I was having panic attacks and my anxiety was through the roof - all related to me dealing with pain all the time. I couldn't take it anymore.

It started getting so bad that I would wake up, snort some dope, and if I didn't have any money to buy anymore I would call out from work Bc I knew in a few hours I would start feeling withdrawals. I went through 3 very traumatic WDs, and plenty more short term ones bc I got my fix in a day or so. If I ran out of my fix, I would literally take anything I can get my hands on just to not feel the pain anymore. Addiction was consuming my life and has taken over completely.

I had a bad experience and didn't wake up one day Bc I had taken trazadone (anxiety/depression medicine) & a lot of dope the night before. My friends were over my apt and we were partying a little Bc we were going to the saint Jude walk the next day & everyone was sleeping over my place. When I didn't wake up in the morning my friends came in my room and I was non-responsive,slightly blue, & not breathing. They threw water on me, jumped on me, did everything they could while waiting for the ambulance. I was breathing less than 5 times a minute which is a quarter of what's normal. When I woke up in the hospital I had no clue what happened. I wound up telling my friends that I took a pill that I was intending to take during the St Jude walk Bc they are aware that I have leg pain. To this day no one knows that I am/was addicted to heroine.

Of course I had to swear up and down to my friends and boyfriend that I would never touch another "pill" again but of course that was a lie. You would think after a near death experience you would straighten yourself out - but addiction is the devil. Started spending all of my money on drugs and I was dead broke.

Finally I knew I had to do something so I went to the Doctor & got on the suboxone program. I've been on it for about 4 months now and I was just dropped down to 1 1/2 strips a day of the 8mg (I started at 2 strips of the 8s a day). It doesn't make me high at all - but it makes me feel normal - million times better than stopping cold turkey of course. The only issue I have is that I've heard rumors about my doctor keeping patients on subs for YEARS! I made it clear that I do not want that Bc I know you do experience WD from subs as well. Sub WD is not as severe as dope and pills, but it does last a lot longer and you feel depressed and sad a lot (no sex drive at all - which is hard when you've had a boyfriend for 10 years and all of a sudden u don't want it anymore).

I hate that I am keeping this huge secret from my BF Bc he was the one always there for me during my withdrawals. I don't want to hurt him anymore and have him worry about me and my addiction. Everytime I go to the doctor I make up some excuse or I lie and say I'm going somewhere else. I hide the subs all over the place and I'm constantly on edge that one day I'm going to get caught. There was a few times I went through WDs and tried to hide it but it was really obvious. Of course you can tell when someone is going through WD, especially when it's their 4th or 5th time.

I want to do this on my own. I want to get clean and do everything on my terms. It was solely MY decision to go on the program. I didn't promise someone, I didn't swear to people that I'm going to get clean. When the time is right you have to make it YOUR decision - or it will not work. I relapsed 2xs within the last few months and regretted it each time of course. Now I have to get my mind right and stick to my plan.

I am sorry I swayed slightly off topic - this kindve turned into a little venting session for me but it feels amazing to let it all out. Even if it is to complete strangers. I am going to be 30 & I want to get married, have kids, and be successful - but it's not possible if I go back to my ways.

I wish you luck with dealing with your pain and I will say a prayer for you tonight. It always gets harder before it gets easier and if I can do it, you can too!! Just remember that you are not alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not ever hesitate to reach out for anything. Take care <3
 
Thank you party girl. I can totally relate about not telling anyone. I am also keeping that secret. The very few people who know are my dealer, my best friend and drug buddy and now her husband cause she confessed her sins when her addiction once again cost her the job of her dreams. The social stigma attached to us "junkies" is not a good one and no matter how good of a person I am I just know if I let that secret part of me out most people who know me will disown me so I keep it locked up tight. I just feel I need to learn how to be honest with myself and I need to stop trying to become some perfect super human that society expects me to be. I need to start letting my self be satisfied with how far I've come and I'll tell you what, I've come a long way. Not just from being addicted to opiates but from the hell that has been my life. I remember when I was younger I watched a movie where all these people where doing drugs that made them forget about all their pains, both mentally and physically, I couldn't have been mor than 10 yrs old, and I remember thinking man I can't wait till I'm old enough to get some drugs that make me forget. I had a really crappy life but now that its just me and my kids, life isn't so bad. I need to stop fogging my brain and start paying attention to how good my life really is. My life may have been shitty but I've done some pretty amazing things to turn it around and if I'd just give myself some credit and escape the darkness I have created for myself, I just may be alright. Thankfully this site is here or I'd be a little more lost than I already am.
 
Just how worth your friendship are those people who would disown for having struggled with substance addiction? Not telling you what to do or think, just a question to ponder.:)

I know it's a bit late now but I wouldn't have bothered getting on the buprenorphine a week in to a short acting opiate detox personally, you would only have been a few days out from being almost right physically (in terms of withdrawal) then you could have made a better assesment of what sort of damage/pain you might still be in with your back. No worries, what's done is done, what is the plan for the buprenorphine?
 
I understand where you are going with your question thecatinthehat and you are right. I did explain to one friend the issue I have and that was the last time I tried to be done with this a few months back. He is a good friend and he is a clean friend for better or worse. He has never had an issue with anything outside of smoking cigarettes and doesn't really understand how difficult it is to get away from something like this. He views me as a strong person who can over come anything because of all the stuff he has seen me go through. We've known each other for 20 yrs and he has seen me go through a lot always to be standing on the other side. Its difficult for me to explain to him how bad off I really am so its not really his fault but a default of my own. I have always been able to put on a good show. It looks as though I'm doing alright on the outside to most people because I'm real good at hiding myself from everyone. I keep myself locked up pretty tight. The few friends I do allow in my life have put me on a pedestal. No one really knows the pain I go through because I keep it to my self pretty well. But I am not as strong as they think I am, I'm falling apart and wish I had someone to catch me as I fall but that is just not possible for me. As my best friend and ex-drug buddy goes through her own detox with the help of her family and other friends I go at it alone. I may have one or two people I can talk to but when it comes down to it I am doing this alone. I don't have someone to pay my bills as I lay in agony, I don't have someone to watch my kids as I go to meetings, I don't have anyone who will help pay my bills or clean my house while I fall apart. My friend who was in this with me has her husband to hold her hand. She has her mom and his parents to watch the kids and help them with the bills as she gets her shit together. At the end of the day I am by my self and still have to keep it together enough to keep it together. I've decided to go on the sub program because I am going at this alone and I can't trust myself to stay clean through just sheer will power. I have learned enough about myself to know that without either someone keeping me on track or something in my system that would make me sick if I used again I would falter just has I have the past three or four times I've tried. It has taken a lot for me just admit I have a problem and it took a lot for me to actually join a program. I'm a bit stubborn and have always had to do everything important on my own so asking for help is a difficult thing for me. To admit to myself that I can't do this by myself has been a real kick in the pride if you understand what I'm saying. People around me think I have it all figured out and the few times I have asked for help and have told them I am falling apart they just don't understand or believe me or something I really don't know but when I have said I can't handle it and I need help I always get the "You're a strong person, you can handle anything" speech which makes me feel even more alone and I just have given up. So I come on here and I go to my meetings and I am trying to surround myself with strangers who are going through the same thing because they don't know me and they don't assume I got my shit together and I can actually get some support. I have always seemed like the one who has got it all figured out. My friends have called me mommalette for 20 yrs now because I have always been the one to help people not the one who needs the help. This is the position I have put myself in by pretending I'm just fine.
 
You people really think that paws last year's ? Stop scaring people it's very stupid to act like it's forever
 
I took subs for 7 years I jumped at 8 to 12 mgs 6 months ago and still am in full blown wd it's itz
 
PAWS could develop into depression, especially if a person has a history of depression, that can be a long lasting problem. A year, or more, can be spent fighting something like this. Read some of the withdrawal threads and you can see what has happened to some people who have/had depression in their lives and how PAWS triggered relapses. No, it doesn't happen to everyone, and many rebound within a shorter period, but it is wrong to make such a blanket statement. Remember, "stupid is as stupid does."

Btw, why did you jump off at such a high dose?
Btw2, welcome to bluelight.
 
I moved and cound not find a new doctor , and I don't think it's paws yet that should start in 6 months so I think 18 to 24 months??? To recover I should just go back on subs right??
 
Sub withdrawal can last for a while because of the long half-life. Even after the physical wd's end you have the mental part to conquer, and this is what PAWS is. How long does it last? That is up to each individual, and this is what I was referring to in my other post.

I still can't believe you jumped from 8-12mg's to 0. I understand why you are still suffering. And with your last post I now know why you jumped!

As far as should you go back onto sub's, it would probably stop your current suffering, but do you want to go back on sub's would be the question. If you do not want to go back on them, then there are some things you can get otc that may help, unfortunately I don't know what they are. If you want to, or need to go back on sub's, then find a dŕ, get a copy of your previous records, and try to start back at a lower dose, maybe 2mg's or less.

You might want to go to the Suboxone megathread to find out much, much more than what I've said here. Any info on suboxone, from me, is second hand as I have never used it.

Again, welcome to bluelight! And do check out the sub megathread as I think you might be able to get the information you need.
 
I find that reading about everyone's similar experiences helps and makes me feel less alone. I wish I would've found out about this site while I was going through the WDs. As I ween down my dosage of suboxone, I will definitely be checking in from time to time to ask questions and talk to people who can relate. Withdrawals will always scare me and even though my doctor says I will not feel them when I stop - I'm petrified. "As long as you taper down you will not feel a thing" he says. Why do I find it so hard to believe?

One issue I have is that even though I have been on the suboxone for a few months, I STILL get cravings and wish I could snort something or pop a pill. I know everyone is different, but I've read many others say that with suboxone they have no cravings at all. Is it too soon for my cravings to stop? Should I be on a higher dose? I would like to talk to my dr about this but I do not want him to suggest me taking more and/or taking any other meds. Does anyone else still have cravings and dream about their drug of choice while on suboxone? Would just like to hear opinions and advice on how to suppress the cravings (without relapsing of course!).
Thanks in advance for any input. ?
 
My pm Dr said I did permanent damage to my brain and can never recover he put me on methadone for life 10 *mgs 3x a day
 
I have read people taper to crumbs go threw months of agony so 12 /24/32/ or .05 mgs you will suffer
 
I've been on subs about 3 weeks and I still crave my DOC but I think more than half of that is in my head. I like the whole ritual of it and that will take some time to get over. I'm mentally done with these subs but until I get a few appointments with my regular doctor I will continue. My physical pain is more than I can handle and being on the subs prevents me from going back to dope cause I don't want to deal with that sickness.
 
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