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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

UK Ketamine Thread v.2 - shortage or not?

I've never bought anything on 'the street'… accept in Amsterdam, where I've been sold chalk, short changed and nearly stabbed.

Apart from a period of total drought, my guy always has pure K, nothing else looks, smells or acts like it. It's certainly not a 'white powder' (until I crush it) more like glassy shards. Stop trolling you knob.
 
@thespice, Have you ever considered that you are the one that's changed, rather than the drug? Ketamine is pretty notorious for causing a hefty semi-permenant tolerance, and as a drug with a complex pharmacological profile, it isn't that hard to believe that you could have built up a resistance to some of the effects over a decade of use. For instance, it might now have a less drastic effect on your mobility compared to what it once did. (Or, hell, maybe you're just a better dancer these days!)

With this in mind, it isn't that surprising that ketamine could feel a bit like a different, and inferior, drug now. What's really more likely; you don't quite get the same level of ket experience that you once did, or the drug has been completely replaced with another in a pretty damn large national ketamine market, and nobody seems to have noticed apart from you? 8)
 
@thespice, Have you ever considered that you are the one that's changed, rather than the drug? Ketamine is pretty notorious for causing a hefty semi-permenant tolerance, and as a drug with a complex pharmacological profile, it isn't that hard to believe that you could have built up a resistance to some of the effects over a decade of use. For instance, it might now have a less drastic effect on your mobility compared to what it once did. (Or, hell, maybe you're just a better dancer these days!)

With this in mind, it isn't that surprising that ketamine could feel a bit like a different, and inferior, drug now. What's really more likely; you don't quite get the same level of ket experience that you once did, or the drug has been completely replaced with another in a pretty damn large national ketamine market, and nobody seems to have noticed apart from you? 8)

This is exactly my thoughts on ketamine these days. All the right boxes are ticked but I get lessened effects. Most likely from lengthy use and thus a high tolerance.
 
That some select Ketamine was taken to a testing centre for a documentary is meaningless, the majority cut or substituted crap on the street is what is important. Look my only agenda is street K in the UK is dire...

Please stop fixating on a minor point one person made about watching a documentary - obviously nobody is taking that as evidence of much of anything. What people here are repeatedly pointing out to you is that Wedinos (a UK-based lab that tests samples - anonymously and for free - of any substance sent in to them from within the UK) has never yet discovered a sample of tiletamine. It has found a number of things sent in that have been bought as ketamine - mostly they are indeed ketamine (with or without cuts) but some are methoxetamine or other RC dissociatives and a handful are straight up bunk. None have been tiletamine.

All you have to do is type "ketamine" into the search box on the Wedinos site and you can read the results for yourself. If you try the same with "tiletamine" there are zero returns - because even when GC/MS testing is used there simply are no such samples ever sent in. By all means send in a sample you suspect of being tiletamine and see what the results are. Would be genuinely interesting if you were getting tiletamine cos it doesn't seem like anybody else is.

As a Harm Reduction site we have to be careful to try to avoid spreading misinformation and this bizarre obsession with tiletamine you have clearly falls under that banner until or unless you can provide supporting evidence that isn't pure conjecture. Yes ketamine has been shite more often than not since the glory days where it was (more or less) legal, widespread and dirt cheap. This is always the case when a drug is banned. Doesn't mean a completely different substance has been substituted for it. The combination of tolerance, familiarity and lower purity accounts for everything you have brought up - especially when backed up by large numbers of lab results from across the country.
 
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You can't straw pick what I've said and reassemble it. You can dance on a bump dose of K just like I can have a beer and not be pissed, 5 more beers and I'm pissed, 10 and I can't walk, to compare with Tiletamine one will be just as pissed as Ketamine by 10 but still be walking. Yep you can't really dance with K, unless you are bumping which is barely taking it.

I'm not, I'm describing exactly what happened. StoneHappyMonday described two different stages of ketamine. The first he described as effect 1 (the equivalent of what you describe as a bump), and effect 2 (k hole). He described dancing on effect 1, and you responded with a claim that it sounded more like tiletamine and you can't dance on ketamine. I.e:

Effect 1- wobbly. You can dance and feel King of the world.

Effect 2 - k-hole. Harder to find than you might imagine (or am I just projecting?)

Your description doesn't sound at all like Ketamine, more like Tiletamine and or a substitute inferior dissociative.

and there is no way you can dance with Ketamine unlike Tilet which you can until higher dosage.

I was just pointing out two things. 1. You can dance on ketamine 2. There probably isn't widespread tiletamine being sold in the UK. If you actually meant that you can dance up until the k hole then that's absolutely fine, it's just that it wasn't inferred. :)

Look my only agenda is street K in the UK is dire, it's just shite and I'd just like people to be more aware of what K actually is, so as not to get duped, because Tiletamine is some really bad stuff and it mimics although badly, Ketamine. Anything resembling a white powder that makes you slightly wobbly is blanketed as Ketamine in the UK.

Look I really do hope you are getting proper K, I really do, and if you are then why do you take issue with my posts? Most of the UK population are not or in the last few years have not been on K or K of any purity, street K of any quality is long gone.

I don't want you to feel that you're being singled out by me or anything like that, especially with you being a new poster. It's just that you've came here and made various statements across the forum concerning ketamine/tiletamine, which don't appear to have any evidence to back them up.

Most of us here in this thread agree that ketamine isn't the same, and anyone can see that the quality is often shit. Many of us have also called the new ketamine tiletamine a while back; but the fact of the matter is this:

Ketamine is regularly tested in the United Kingdom via the Wedinos project. There have been numerous submissions showing that ketamine is available in the United Kingdom. Other lesser known dissociatives are also tested and they are listed on Wedinos. There are absolutely no submissions for tiletamine whatsoever.

This means that ketamine is clearly available on the streets in the UK and makes it highly unlikely that tiletamine is. It means that it's highly unlikely we've been getting tiletamine these past few years. I guess that in a world where improbabilities do happen, then it is technically a possibility that by some weird chance people have only submitted ketamine for testing, or Wedinos for some strange reason list tiletamine submissions as ketamine. But let's face it, realistically this is highly improbable.

This forum is probably one of the primary sources of factual information on drugs on the planet, so if you're going to make claims you're going to have to be prepared to back them up if you want them to be taken seriously.

Again, not a personal attack on you, but the idea that tiletamine is prevalent just doesn't stand up against the overwhelming evidence in favour of it just being ketamine. :)

By the way, I had some 100% certified old school ket in the summer. I holed exactly like I did in the olden days (sliding through black & white closed eye visuals/visions of landscapes/rooms/passageways/streets/cities etc), and that's something I haven't been able to achieve in a good few years. It was from Aberdeen and twice the price of the many different types of ketamine that I've tried in Newcastle. :)
 
Where is your proof?
We show you wedinos
You show us....well uh....speculation

http://www.wedinos.org/db/materials/view/483

Can't see how one testing centre can be taken for gospel, but since they consider the drug to not be controlled further backs my premise, someone got clever and found an easy substitute.

By the way, I had some 100% certified old school ket in the summer. I holed exactly like I did in the olden days (sliding through black & white closed eye visuals/visions of landscapes/rooms/passageways/streets/cities etc), and that's something I haven't been able to achieve in a good few years. It was from Aberdeen and twice the price of the many different types of ketamine that I've tried in Newcastle. :)

It is exactly this that enrages me in the UK (btw it's not you that enrage me but the statement and the notion since it's so prevalent in the UK).

There is the notion that pre-drought there was Indian K that simply isn't available now, ok there was a crack down in India but the simple fact is there is absolutely 0 reason why something that is real K shouldn't be the same old school experience as before, it's not like Ketamine is a fine wine and we can all go fucking wine tasting the difference between sauvignon and chablis, there is simply racemic arketamine and esketamine or esketamine on it's own, two choices. Your statement above actually backs ups what I'm saying.

If you are having anything but the experience you described as "old skool" you are getting "new skool" cut with tiletamine or other shit, simple as that. During the 2013-14 drought period only Tiletamine was available in the whole of the UK, biggest bloody scam in a while since it's also dissociative.

I holed exactly like I did in the olden days (sliding through black & white closed eye visuals/visions of landscapes/rooms/passageways/streets/cities etc), and that's something I haven't been able to achieve in a good few years.

Out of interest are/were you able to identify that K as racemic or esketamine?
 
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http://www.wedinos.org/db/materials/view/483

Can't see how one testing centre can be taken for gospel, but since they consider the drug to not be controlled further backs my premise, someone got clever and found an easy substitute.

Tiletamine will now be controlled in the UK under the Psychoactive Substances Act. If anything, tiletamines previous legality goes to prove that tiletamine was probably never widely available in this country. With the new ket being so in demand, then you would think that a legal, similar substitute would simply be imported and regularly available. As it happens though we've had repeated droughts ever since the Indian crackdown, which seemed to go beyond just the occasional shortness of supply from labs. It seemed like supply routes were heavily disrupted. If there was a working legal analogue then there wouldn't have been such gaps to feed demand. IME ketamine users could always tell when it was an analogue; i.e ephenidine or MXE.

There is the notion that pre-drought there was Indian K that simply isn't available now, ok there was a crack down in India but the simple fact is there is absolutely 0 reason why something that is real K shouldn't be the same old school experience as before, it's not like Ketamine is a fine wine and we can all go fucking wine tasting the difference between sauvignon and chablis, there is simply racemic arketamine and esketamine or esketamine on it's own, two choices.

Yip, so two choices; the isomer widely available previous to the Indian crackdown, and the one available now.

Out of interest are/were you able to identify that K as racemic or esketamine?

Whichever isomer was widely available from India. I've always thought it was racemic, but I'm unsure. I had some about three years ago as well. Either way, I can tell because with the new stuff it's like I'm never 'in the moment' during a hole, I just come round, and I don't get any closed eye visuals, no matter how hard I try/how much I sniff/how slowly I take it.
 
Whichever isomer was widely available from India. I've always thought it was racemic, but I'm unsure. I had some about three years ago as well. Either way, I can tell because with the new stuff it's like I'm never 'in the moment' during a hole, I just come round, and I don't get any closed eye visuals, no matter how hard I try/how much I sniff/how slowly I take it.

This is why I asked, since it is cut Tiletamine that when pushed is usually pushed as S-isomer, the newer type that imo is now more available than racemic in the UK since India has gone and my very gripe is with this discrepancy.
 
The ket that was so cheap and abundant that came in from India - that is to say the stuff the vast majority of those who were familiar with K before the drought - was racemic (ie a 50/50 blend of R- and S-isomer ketamine). Pure S-isomer ket has been available but has never been widespread. The effects of the two are quite distinct and unlikely to be confused. For me, S-ket is slightly more potent but significantly less wonky as far as motor skills go. R-ketamine has never been available on the recreational market aside from a handful of reports from folk with very specific contacts. There's a specific thread for K isomer discussion in the ketamine thread in the PD Index (linky in my sig).
 
This is why I asked, since it is cut Tiletamine that when pushed is usually pushed as S-isomer, the newer type that imo is now more available than racemic in the UK since India has gone and my very gripe is with this discrepancy.

S-isomer is more common as there is a perception amongst users that it is the superior isomer (more potent by weight, online reports of it being cleaner and more psychedelic), so black market production favours it because - why the hell not, if its getting synthesized from scratch anyway, may as well produce a product that suits recreational users best.

I was a bit skeptical of s-isomer being better, but the better quality of the 2 batches I had last weekend was s-isomer, and it was great. Strongest batch I've had in recent times, k-holed me, and I was able to sleep not too long after emerging from the hole.
 
I always buy racemic, I have probably an unfounded suspicion of S Ket. The stuff I've got at the moment produces CEVs even at low doses, took some at a gig a few nights ago and was in my own little world for a bit lost in the music and CEVs, it was pretty good fun.
 
This is why I asked, since it is cut Tiletamine that when pushed is usually pushed as S-isomer, the newer type that imo is now more available than racemic in the UK since India has gone and my very gripe is with this discrepancy.

If only you put so much effort into digging your k-holes*. ;)

*Tiletamine holes.
 
This is why I asked, since it is cut Tiletamine that when pushed is usually pushed as S-isomer, the newer type that imo is now more available than racemic in the UK since India has gone and my very gripe is with this discrepancy.
You know I could imagine tiletamine being vastly more complex an acquisition for dealers than ketamine.
So why would you want to go so far out of ones way for something sub par and harder to get?
 
You know I could imagine tiletamine being vastly more complex an acquisition for dealers than ketamine.
So why would you want to go so far out of ones way for something sub par and harder to get?

I don't even remember it being available when it was legal? If it had been, there would probably be people around that can give a comparison between the 2.
 
I don't even remember it being available when it was legal? If it had been, there would probably be people around that can give a comparison between the 2.
Yeah there's a thread floating around on here from back then but it doesn't sound the greatest of things. Hardly a thing that could be passed off as K.
 
Yeah there's a thread floating around on here from back then but it doesn't sound the greatest of things. Hardly a thing that could be passed off as K.

Actually it is the perfect substitute, cheaper and more potent. This not to mention a plethora of other dissociatives and crap that are substituted.
 
Actually it is the perfect substitute, cheaper and more potent. This not to mention a plethora of other dissociatives and crap that are substituted.
Are you still banging on about this? Show us a lab report proving your theory, or actually a series of lab reports as you say it is everywhere or STFU with your misinformation. This is a harm reduction site.

Again. Lab test results or STFU
 
Actually it is the perfect substitute, cheaper and more potent. This not to mention a plethora of other dissociatives and crap that are substituted.

What makes you so sure black market clandestine tiletamine is cheaper to synthesize than black market clandestine ketamine? Makes absolutely zero sense that criminal organization would think that producing a completely different drug that nobody actively seeks out, cutting it, and passing it off as ket is a solid business strategy... Why not just produce the drug people want and minimise risk/loss of custom?
 
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