Opioids Kratom Mega Thread V.4

[HdoubleODeezy]

All opiates/opioids make me not WANT or NEED sleep.
i'm nocturnal btw, either that or go a week without sleep and then sleep 24hours. Rinse repeat.

But JUST with kratom you say?
Maybe norepinephrine effects from then adrenic properties of kratom?
My best guess.

Try taking doxylamine a half hour to hour before bed, see if that helps.

-HOOD

 

[Mycophile]

All opiates/opioids make me not WANT or NEED sleep.
i'm nocturnal btw, either that or go a week without sleep and then sleep 24hours. Rinse repeat.

But JUST with kratom you say?
Maybe norepinephrine effects from then adrenic properties of kratom?
My best guess.

Try taking doxylamine a half hour to hour before bed, see if that helps.

-HOOD

Well I also drink profuse amounts of coffee, take Klonopin and Prozac, so it's not only the Kratom...but on any normal day when I DON'T take Kratom I don't have the extreme difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep as I do with Kratom.

I think the caffeine does interact in an odd way with it, because if I don't have enough coffee while on Kratom I will just be tired and groggy and not really get enough euphoria...probably because I am so heavily dependent on large doses of coffee.

I don't know anything about doxylamine or if it interacts badly with Klonopin or Prozac though so I'm not sure I could take it, and is it prescription or over the counter??

I usually just take Melatonin and extra Klonopin and eventually fall asleep but wake up a lot...hence why I only take Kratom one day a week as I get tired of the sleep disturbances.

I bet if I could reduce my caffeine intake my Kratom experiences might be more predictable...I'm not sure...but at the moment my caffeine dependency is just way too much to cut down.

That's odd that you don't want/or need sleep on opioids...at least once they start to wear off for me I want to sleep as much as ever.

Still, how I feel even during the day on Kratom fluctuates more than Ive heard anyone else here say it does for them.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Doxylamine is an OTC antihistamine (it's the strongest OTC sedative available in the US).
I've seen on wiki that some studies say it is more sedating than phenobarbital (not sure as i've never taken any barb other than butalbital)
Someone else will have better answers for you than I do.

-HOOD

 

[sekio]

Kratom is a norepinephrine releaser because it works as an antagonist as a2a/a2c adrenergic autoreceptors, like yohimbine. This is why it's stimulating in lower doses (below where mitragynine activates the mu opioid receptor). That's probably why it keeps you awake. Drugs that are the opposite - a2a/a2c receptor agonists, are powerful sedatives and antihypertensives like clonidine.

Kratom use probably also elevates blood pressure a little. In combination with caffeine it could cause hypertension.

 

[Mycophile]

Kratom is a norepinephrine releaser because it works as an antagonist as a2a/a2c adrenergic autoreceptors, like yohimbine. This is why it's stimulating in lower doses (below where mitragynine activates the mu opioid receptor). That's probably why it keeps you awake. Drugs that are the opposite - a2a/a2c receptor agonists, are powerful sedatives and antihypertensives like clonidine.

Kratom use probably also elevates blood pressure a little. In combination with caffeine it could cause hypertension.

I guess that the best I can do is try to reduce my caffeine intake a little when I take Kratom huh??

I can't see any other alternative to making sleep easier or make the Kratom experience more consistently euphoric.

I tried to buy a scale like you recommended but the one I got is worthless and I don't feel like paying for another right now.

Do you see any other alternative ways of making the Kratom experience more consistently euphoric and/or reducing the sleep issues?

You think even if I drank the same amount of coffee but split it up over a few hours it might make more of a difference?

 

[whiteroom67]

I would keep the intake of coffee limited to 2pm or earlier and not have too much. I would say as far as Kratom don't use it for at least 4 hours before sleep. Or you can just take a break

 

[apedosmil]

Hey guys, I searched for an answer to my question and saw close answers regarding half life, but no answer to my specific question. So if one exists I apologize for duplicating.

So I am prescribed oxycodone for sciatic nerve damage, and I was going to try to get off it and switch to kratom to be natural, and avoid synthetic opiates for obvious reasons. So my question is thus,

Yesterday I took about 4 grams of kratom between 10am and 2pm. It was helpful but I think I need to order a different strain. So in the meantime it's back to my prescription. Is it safe to start taking my oxycodone script today if the last time I took any kratom was yesterday afternoon? I don't want have cross toleration or take my dose if it's not safe. I realize this may be obvious to some but I just want to be sure as I'm new to kratom!

 

[whiteroom67]

There shouldn't be a problem or much of a difference really. No health problems that I can personally think of. If you were taking the pain meds regularly there would be a tolerance anyway. The kratom use isn't really going to change that for better or worse. Especially with only one use. You will have a tolerance will regular use of either choice anyway. Of course, I would discourage regular/chronic use of either in any case. What makes you say you think you need a different strain?

 

[apedosmil]

It just didn't seem to help with the pain, and I'm told certain strains are good for pain, some are good for anxiety, etc. Am I misinformed?

 

[al-laddin]

Kratom definitely has a limit to the analgesic effects it produces. But yes Bali and RVT work for pain...for me anyway. But you need a good source more importantly. Stay away from headshop kratom...it literally is total weak garbage....any kratom that's "branded" is utter trash and they can put ANYTHING in it. Search for Kratom Vendors online and order from a reputable source and save literal 5-10X the amount.

 

[whiteroom67]

Some strains are better for pain, but for me, they all seem to help anxiety. Some are more energetic, like the white veins, and the red veins are more sedating, and also better for pain. Also like al said, there is a limit to Kratom's effects... all of them. And yes make sure to get it from a reputable online vendor because headshop Kratom is horrible.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

I agree about the helping with anxiety. Helps mine greatly..
Except in one case: While going through benzo wd lol.. shit fucks with you hard IME.

Doesn't do much for pain for me though.
Than again even when on dope or oxycodone back when I was an addict I didn't seem to get analgesic effects.
The only way it would help me deal with pain is make me feel "good" or put me in a great mood, only pain it would take away were pains from wds.
I think for me opiates just work to take my mind off the pain, not get rid of it (if that makes sense).

-HOOD

 

[liftedgift]

All kratom does for me now is gives me a mood lift. If you are expecting a strong opiate high, plain lead won't get you there.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

I'm not looking for a strong opiate high.
I use kratom when I feel i need to for exactly the reason of a mood lift (like you said you get).
But also i become more creative when on it.. possibly do to the slight stim effects?
I'm a lyricist and I've written some of my best work on kratom and etizolam.
Synergize nicely for me.
Never tried anything like UEI and dont feel the need to. Plain leaf gives me the mellow anxiety relief plus mood lift and maybe a little body buzz type warmth.
But no, I don't know if you were referring to me about the "strong opiate high" comment, But that isn't what I use the plant for.
(which I know no one would/should receive a strong opiated high from it, only case I can think that someone might is maybe if it is their first opiate type experience they wont know better, or any different till they experiment with more opiates/opioids lol).

If you weren't referring to me, my bad. But im not arguing, im agreeing.. i just apologize if i stole or butted in to someone elses conversation.

-HOOD

 

[apedosmil]

Hah I feel like this entire forum consists of hijacked threads, but that's kind of the point right, everyone weighing in so we can be as safe/knowledgeable as possible? Like me, I know a bit about opiates from being prescribed, but I'm trying to find alternatives like kratom because I would rather not be a slave to this shit my whole life, and I know next to nothing about kratom. Finding a decent vendor outside of my local headshop has been a nightmare.

So I shouldn't base my experience on kratom on the "maeng da" capsules I got from my headshop?

Also the main reason. I wanna get off opiates is like, the stress of knowing my comfort level, my ability to work, my mental comfort is tied to something I have no control over. Most people can wake up and take a 3 day trip to the beach if they want. They don't have to worry "do I have enough meds to go away for 3 days and not get sick?" Or when the blizzard hit this winter and cvs supply route got fucked up and they were out of my meds, had to worry and hope they came in on time. Or if the fucking zombie apocalypse happened most people could rip and run. I'd have to be like wait wait wait, stop the armored school bus, I think that pharmacy is in tact!

Fuck all that noise.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Or if the fucking zombie apocalypse happened most people could rip and run. I'd have to be like wait wait wait, stop the armored school bus, I think that pharmacy is in tact!

lmao.

On that note:
Cure for zombie apocalypse.. give them high doses of benzos, alcohol and opiates for extended amount of time and cut them off CT.
They'll off themselves.

-HOOD

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Sorry for the double post.. my last one was 3 days ago so i hope its ok, plus if i just edit it, it wont bump the thread..

Ok.. I been using kratom off and on for about a year (ever since i let my bupe PAWS pass, finally), usually 2 weeks on 2-3 weeks off with minimal wd.
Well I used for the 2 weeks like usual, but a different strain. Weird thing is, this strain didn't seem to have as much effect "mood lift", energy'productivity boost etc.
In fact I don't remember any effects from it really other than it satisfying my want/need to take it.
So.. to my point. This strain for 2 weeks that gave me almost no effects, now has me in stonger wd from stopping than the strain that usually works pretty well for me.. seems odd to me but ok, i get it.. gotta pay the price of "dabbling" once in a while.
To add on to this fact, someone in my household had a stroke recently and just got home from rehabilitation. Me being the only other man in the house and the strongest.. have been needed to help him a little (i feel like im dying myself, so i stay in bed usually until someone gets me and tells me to help him (which only has happened a couple times, thank god [if there is one] )
I am 3 days into the wd and know it could end within the next few days but the ex junkie in me made a dumb move, i ordered more (this time my usual strain) and i SHOULD be taking a break from it for a couple weeks. It comes in the mail tomorrow (would have been today but it was a holiday) and am going to wanna take it as soon as it arrives, and no matter what i say or tell myself.. i will take it. So here's another 2 weeks on that i shouldn't be doing.

Question is. It will be here in 12 hours. I slept most of today because of obvious reasons. So now can't sleep.
But im tired as fuck, im drinking an energy drink right now to get rid of the dragging ass feeling.
I take a bunch or rx meds daily, i wont list them. But one of the meds i take is a benzo, i double dosed to help comfort myself. It's working to an extent.
I also (stupidly) take phenibut daily but in small doses, usually 300 mg 3xday or 500mg 2xday. All it does since i take little amounts and have been for a while, is relax me and get rid of the nasty feeling i get when i dont take it. It was different when i first started taking it, ill explain the effects i got then in the next part of this question.
If I was to take right now 1.2g phenibut in kratom wds.. would it be enough to give me the feeling i got when first starting taking it? Energy, reduced anxiety, good feeling etc?
I just gotta hold on for 12 hours and feel like absolute shit right now. I wouldn't feel as shitty if i wasn't expecting more en-route to me for tomorrow.
But taking it off of my usual schedule is going to fuck it up and i will be dealing with this again in 2 weeks, but the reason im doing it (not only for myself) is so i can be of use to the person in my house that needs my help.
I'm a nicer more productive and helpful person on it and this would be a time when that will come in handy.
This person deserves my help beyond words, if it wasn't for him.. my life would be a lot worse than it already is (this person is my grandfather). I'm willing to go through wds later so i can help him when he needs it, a sacrifice i am more than willing to make.

So my point in all this is, dose 3x my normal of phenibut in addition to my benzos to help until tomorrow, or no? lol.
Long post for simple question i know, just also felt like venting what is going on right now.. my psych is proving to be useless once again.
Thanks for any answers, ill try to wait for a couple opinions before going ahead and doing, or not doing, what i am seeking guidance on.

-HOOD

EDIT: Reason I'm asking for opinions when usually i just take care of myself doing whatever I know will help, i literally can't think ATM that's how drained my body and mind feel.

EDIT 2: Ended up taking trazadone last night forcing myself to sleep.
Kratom came, not feeling shitty anymore, but keep having panic attacks (unrelated to this topic).
Anywayz.. i made it til today. Gonna take some benzos now to get rid of this crazy anxiety.

-HOOD

 

[chooster101]

I am a new Kratom user. It is part of a plan that never goes right, but hey its fun.
I have read all of the mega threads. I looked at Kratom for about the past 3 months.

By the way, I am not asking anyone to answer these questions, this is my work and fun time but any comments are great. This is what I am doing poking around in the Kratom forums all over the web. I have a different mood here at Blue Light and thanks to everyone for making it what it is. I stay here.
I am taking it for:
1. Pure recreational enjoyment evaluation. If I could only do Kratom would I be satisfied?
2. Not if but when I taper off opiates can Kratom help? IF so, how well and what works best with it?
3. I believe it has other value. What does it reportedly offer versus what do I feel day to day?

Today was my 3rd actual Kratom experience, or I should say is, I took this 3rd dose about 45 minutes ago. I purchased powdered, they didn't offer leaf. I simply mix it with the smallest amount of water i can chug, stir it well, and pop it down the hatch. Then I go for a "second wash" on the glass heh.

It is rare for me to only have one thing going in the evenings regarding what is rolling through my veins. When I took the Kratom I was already under the influence of opiates, smoke, nicotine, a little Phendimetrazine may be around but I do not continue use or use close to the dose of Kratom. Late in any opiate based experience I may add some xanax. .5 to 1. Since learning what a dangerous combination it is I stopped drinking when using opiates and benzos. It made the most sense rather than me keeping up with how much I drank.
(Do NOT MIX THESE things, it is dangerous, and can kill you. No shit, dead, don't do it.
The short version of this should be I am extremely careful when I mix these things, I am paranoid about it as I am many things, to the extreme. Yet I still manage to make mistakes which could cost my life. For HR sake, I wanted to make sure anyone understands I have used for pushing 30 years. I have learned more on how to be safe here, from you folks. Thanks. Do not mix alcohol, Xanax, opiates, kratom. I have not mixed alcohol with Kratom, but I have the other things. There are many reasons why not, 1 Dead 2 Dead3 Dead
IMO It dirties the buzz
If you get the opiate "grumpiness" with an alcohol rage you will do something you regret, stupid, and we are avoiding those situations.
Or, maybe the other way, want to have a good time and yeah, lets all have a good time. Broke the next day, hurting, sick, x100 when you are broke.
I prefer my opiates without alcohol, but I smoke with everything.

If you have any suggestions dealing with Kratom brands, how I should be taking my doses if I am looking for pain relief and recreational, I know you aren't my Dr., don't know my history, etc, so how about what you would take? Not that I would follow it unless it met my own, but for curiosity sake.
I am going to wrap this up with what Kratom flavors I am taking:
Super Green Bali was my first. I took 4 grams and felt nothing
Same strain the next evening I took 10 grams, was under the influence of opiates, but the Kratom gave me a euphoric glow and kicked in nice. If it was placebo I want it again as it lasted a long time, IE an hour or so which I am happy with for a good glow, intense ones anyway.

about 60 minutes ago i took 8.5 grams of the Super Green Bali and mixed it with 1 gram of Concentrated Maeng Da Kratom. They clai 1 gram of it equals 7.8 grams of unenhanced Maeng Da. As usual I have some other things, smoke and opiates, and can elaborate if anyone is interested, ROA, etc

**I understand my use of these things may / will cause fast jumps in tolerance, I am / will probably experience cross-tolerance and this is not a good idea if I want to use it to taper my dose down. I take many risks and put myself in the wrong situations I shouldn't, and sometimes there is not a need only my lack of education about it. I do appreciate any HR offered but I understand I take too much or mix too many things sometimes.

 

[Drew.]

^ I've read a many times in threads that you can't really boost an opiate experience with kratom. Especially if the opiate you're originally using is stronger?

I toss and wash, sometimes daily, mixing the red vain, white b, and green Malay together.
I only recently started trying this and find as little as 8g of this stuff combined floors me. To the point where I'm almost sick but still dwelling in an opi-stupor. Before the consumption I ate half a grapefruit as well (but I have has just as good an experience without it).

Also, I used to use morphine daily but broke the favor l habit probably two months before trying this stuff)

Edit:
Today, as of twenty minutes ago, I ingested (on empty stomach):
3.8g super Green Malay powder
2.4g red vain powder
2.2g white vain b powder

Already I feel the effects creeping in: slight nausea, then accompanied by a warm facial flush turning into a warm, enticing buzz.
But I am also feeling a residual "push" to do something or stay up, despite my relaxed intentions. If I gave too much together I might become a little shaky, but it's no different than having too much caffeine. I find eating helps two hours in. I'm usually starving by then.
This stuff when mixed works wonders - my hand and its swelling from potential arthritis no longer throbs. At the end of each week I look forward to using this and putting my hand in a bucket of ice water. At that point I can't feel it right.

 

[ThePredecessor]

so Bali for a sedative feeling and Mang Pimp for an upper feeling?