whiteroom67
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2014
- Messages
- 337
Alright so some of you may have seen some of my previous posts and may have a little bit of a background as to my usage history, background, interests, etc, but basically, for all intents and purposes I have generally been an on/off opiate addict (mostly oxy) for quit some time but in the past year really fell in love with Kratom as my main #1, even over oxy. This might be a long post, so I'm sorry in advance. If you're interested, read on.
Well not long ago I had quit Kratom for probably about 10 or 12 days, then relapsed for a week, and then quit again and was surprised by the strength of the return of withdrawal symptoms again that 2nd time around, though it wasn't as intense as the first time, it still sucked. Well anyway basically for those who don't know it was directly connected to oxy use though only for a short period, but it really seemed to intensy my dependence in general. The physical stuff was mostly done with after the first week, save for at this point 2 and 1/2 weeks later a minute-long chill or a bit of faint restlessness here or there, but the psychological part of recovery has not been so smooth. As a matter of fact, I have withdrawn from oxy several times in the past, but psychologically it was nowhere even close to as hard as quitting my Kratom habit this time around has been.
For the past 2 and 1/2 weeks since my last use, I have had some good points, but still a lot of wavering anxiety and depression/lethargy, coupled with some sleep issues (not so much falling asleep really, but rather actually staying asleep until my alarm goes off, and feeling fully rested without taking anything).
The anxiety and depression have varied in intensity and length, and seem to come and go without any real reason or trigger, so much to the point where I don't know what to use to help treat the symptoms while my brain's biochemistry repairs itself... if I take something for the anxiety, it might help, but then make me lethargic and depressed, and if I am depressed and take something to help give me energy and lift my mood a bit, suddenly I will get anxiety! I can't win!
I have been eating healthy most of the time, lots of fruits and veggies, working out (lifting weights and running), and taking the typical 2x per day multivitamin, fish oil, extra magnesium and even some desiccated liver for extra protein/aminos/vitamins/enzymes/etc; but also, I have some L-Tyrosine and L-Tryptophan which I usually take together (I figure one should help dopamine production for the lethargy/depression while the other should help serotonin for anxiety, but who knows).
Also, I've been experimenting with some nootropics, hoping they would speed up the healing process, so far to no avail it seems. I've been alternating and trying phenylpiracetam, sulbutiamine, rhodiola, tianeptine, and the occasional phenibut dose for tough days (never more than 2 days in a row, with at least 3 days of no use in between before using again, and usually only around 2 grams in a day give or take a half gram or so). I took St. John's Wort for a few days but bugged out a bit by comparing it to SSRI's, something I did not want to get reliant on, and stopped, and have also actually been taking some 98% l-tetrahydropalmatine, which actually seems to work really well for anxiety and any sleep issues. These nootropics do seem to work but only temporarily. I tried doing some research and haven't really seen much addiction potential with the l-THP or most of the others, though I don't want to get psychologically habituated to taking all of this stuff either - but it has been getting me through the days/nights no doubt. But over the course of 2 and 1/2 weeks, my brain doesn't seem to be repairing, and I don't know if it's due to the nootropics preventing it or not. But I do know that they have helped because without them, I'm not sure how I'd still have my job (see below) or my sanity in general, because frankly, this really sucks. Like, bad. I have even been toying with the idea of a carefully pre-planned Iboga trip as a desperate last-resort, though honestly it's something I'd like to try in any case, but especially for a brain "reset" as many claim it can do at this time along with maybe providing some valuable self-therapy and introspection (something I tend to do already, though not always in a good way, at least not when sober), but despite being experienced with psychedelics including Ayahuasca, I am a little scared shitless of Iboga and don't even know who my sitter would be or when/where I would do it or the dosage and ratio of Ibogaine/TA, whatever, etc (rambling I know, my bad).
Anyway my experience for today... I was 2 and 1/2 weeks clean from Kratom, 10 days clean from Valium (which I was only taking on and off in moderate doses for around 3 weeks or so). I'm still clean from the Valium, but today I relapsed on Kratom. Here's why:
Baseline - I have been anxious and depressed in general on and off to begin with like I just said. Like, physiologically. Like I feel like it's the biochemistry in my brain, and not just me convincing myself I'm anxious and/or depressed from bad thinking habits. The depression/anxiety will alternate and come and go, for no apparent reason at any given time, regardless of where I am or what I'm doing, even while working out or meditating, and I'm pretty sure that it's that psychological part of Kratom withdrawal which I heard can last a long time (I have withdrawn from Kratom before, but never experienced the psychological symptoms to this degree before). So, today I was feeling mostly anxiety, though some depression thrown in there too. I am trying to hold on and be strong but it's hard, trying to deal with it anyway I can, through work, working out, keeping busy, taking my supplements, etc.
I've been having some issues at work lately since quitting, and it has bee on my mind on and off. I feel I am quite close to leaving my job, voluntarily or not, considering my boss is a paranoid, insecure should-be-certified whack-job as it is, but has now been giving me an even harder time over bullshit. I'm doing my job, just not to "his liking". Basically, I work in local government, it's all politics, he claims it's not but it is. Anyone with any idea of how society works would know this without me even having to go any further. That's how much of an idiot this guy is. He doesn't even know he's an idiot. Anyway for example, a board of health member owning a restaurant in the same town we contract with, and another restaurant owner's lawyer being our town judge. It doesn't take a genius to know this is an obvious conflict of interest yet one issue for example is he is accusing me of creating a conflict of interest for forming a friendly personal relationship with another random restaurant owner (an ice-cream shop nonetheless) - really all because that board of health restaurant owner is filing complaints, probably because he's worried about losing business from his own nasty-ass restaurant, which he should in any case. These people complain about other restaurants in town when they are 2 of the dirtiest restaurants I've ever seen. They complain to him and he tells me to go after these other restaurant owners who are doing nothing wrong. He makes up his own rules. I know this job isn't for me, but I'm doing what I can to get what nees to be done, done, dealing with it, and saving what I can before leaving, but my boss has just been ridiculous about everything and is getting pissed I'm not doing his dirtywork for him and/or claiming responsibility, so he's picking on every little thing I do now. I know I'm starting to get to him because of all the "official verbal warnings he is starting to give me, probably because he's finally learning I'm not his little puppet who will not follow his made-up rules on what to enforce and how to enforce it according to what he says is "right", even though morally or ethically, or even in some cases legally, it's not - some of the stuff isn't even enforceble by code, even though he likes to pretend it is. It's all bureaucratic, fascist bullshit. Anyway, it's pissing me off, I'm pissing him off, everybody's pissed off, and it's stressing me out as it just another layer of shit on top of all the physiological/psychological symptoms I've been having to deal with. Having to deal with this guy at work along with another "special" coworker who thinks he's the almighty as well is really part of what made me want to use more Kratom during the day and eventually start doing oxys again in the first place, before legit needing even more of them for some surgery I had, which is what really kicked me off the edge regarding dependence. I'm not trying to make justifications or anything, but really. But hey, alright, fine. I've been putting up with it, dealing with it, and hadn't relapsed.
Today's specific situation, tomorrow (technically, today, the 22nd) is my f*cking BIRTHDAY... AND the girl from down the street was having her college graduation party earlier yesterday (the 21st - it's like 3 AM now)... there were some cute girls there, I knew they'd be there, a couple of which I had previously had sex with, but it was an awkward 3-way and I hadn't seen them or talked to them in a year so I was pretty anxious about the whole situation. My parents tell me I should go, that they told them I was going, that I need to go. So I go. Everyone there is drinking. I'm trying to stay clean. I have no friends left in the area, and the few that I do have would only usually meet up for a drink. Something that at least at this point, 2 and 1/2 weeks off of Kratom and feeling anxiety/depression, I wanted to avoid until the recovery process was complete. Meanwhile I get convinced to go to this college grad party wherever everybody and their mother (literally - including my own mother) are drinking. My brother is out drinking with his friends. The few other people I know do nothing except go out for drinks. I put up with it for 2 hours. I said I'd be right back. I went home. I texted my mom and my brother, telling them how hard it was and how I didn't feel I could go back. My brother had no idea what to say (he's 17), my mom was drunk (she's kind of a night-time alcoholic in denial) and didn't know what to say either - they apparently have no idea about addiction, despite me trying to talk to them about it several times and having no one else to talk to besides my drug counselor who usually doesn't get to say much since by the time I'm done bitching and complaining about the past week of my life our hour session is just about over. Party down the road, girls, alcohol, headshop just a few miles away with Kratom extract I can swipe up... What do I do? No where to go, nothing to do, no one to talk to. Wasn't really a fan of AA/NA despite trying a few meetings... listening to other people talk about their problems never really helped me and there weren't really any young people that I saw there either. There were a couple people I had met there though at one point not long ago, and I tried texting them, but nobody answered.
I was freaking out, pacing back and forth. I started crying because I felt so isolated, like the price for sobriety was social isolation - disconnection from everyone, everything. This went on for oer an hour. Around here, all I know on Saturday nights when associating with other people, friends, family, whoever, all I have ever known, is drinking or doing drugs. It seems like no one I know anywhere close to my age around here does anything else. My family all drink. Normally during sober periods of my life I could have a beer or 2 for special occasions, or even dabble in whatever else here or there, psychedelic sessions notwithstanding, but this time it just didn't feel right, my mind wasn't healthy on its own and I sensed it, I knew it, and I didn't want to feed it what it was craving, yet I felt like I had no place. There's a party down the road, family having their own good time, not knowing what the fuck to do, where to go, who to turn to... I seriously considered driving to the airport and just buying the first ticket to South America or somewhere in Cambodia or something, just leaving. So I told my mom what I was experiencing, she just told me she didn't know it was that hard, and just to have some Kratom since it's my birthday anyway, and then go back to the party and have a beer with her... so I did, and then I went back, and felt relaxed, happy, sociable again, like nothing felt wrong again. I have half the extract left which I'll prob use tomorrow before going out to dinner with my fam, but I'm just pissed. I was actually able to have some decent conversations which wouldn't have happened without using... not using just seemed insurmountable tonight. Needless to say I'm disappointed though and really can't see myself staying off the stuff if I stay here doing what I'm doing now.
Update: My brother calls me at 3:30 and wants me to pick him up from his friend's party bc he "doesn't feel good". Sorry bro, I drank. wtf...
Also, my long-time long-distance penpal friend from another state texted and wished me a happy birthday and then proceeded to tell me about her apparent alcohol addiction which I saw coming from a mile away like 6 years ago and how she also now eats pot brownies to help her sleep at night and had to use fake pee to pass a drug test at work. Oh the wonderful life of an addict. I told her to try Kratom since at least it doesn't show up on drug tests. I really don't know what else to say. Connecting with her did make me feel better though.
This is never going away wtffffff.....
Well not long ago I had quit Kratom for probably about 10 or 12 days, then relapsed for a week, and then quit again and was surprised by the strength of the return of withdrawal symptoms again that 2nd time around, though it wasn't as intense as the first time, it still sucked. Well anyway basically for those who don't know it was directly connected to oxy use though only for a short period, but it really seemed to intensy my dependence in general. The physical stuff was mostly done with after the first week, save for at this point 2 and 1/2 weeks later a minute-long chill or a bit of faint restlessness here or there, but the psychological part of recovery has not been so smooth. As a matter of fact, I have withdrawn from oxy several times in the past, but psychologically it was nowhere even close to as hard as quitting my Kratom habit this time around has been.
For the past 2 and 1/2 weeks since my last use, I have had some good points, but still a lot of wavering anxiety and depression/lethargy, coupled with some sleep issues (not so much falling asleep really, but rather actually staying asleep until my alarm goes off, and feeling fully rested without taking anything).
The anxiety and depression have varied in intensity and length, and seem to come and go without any real reason or trigger, so much to the point where I don't know what to use to help treat the symptoms while my brain's biochemistry repairs itself... if I take something for the anxiety, it might help, but then make me lethargic and depressed, and if I am depressed and take something to help give me energy and lift my mood a bit, suddenly I will get anxiety! I can't win!
I have been eating healthy most of the time, lots of fruits and veggies, working out (lifting weights and running), and taking the typical 2x per day multivitamin, fish oil, extra magnesium and even some desiccated liver for extra protein/aminos/vitamins/enzymes/etc; but also, I have some L-Tyrosine and L-Tryptophan which I usually take together (I figure one should help dopamine production for the lethargy/depression while the other should help serotonin for anxiety, but who knows).
Also, I've been experimenting with some nootropics, hoping they would speed up the healing process, so far to no avail it seems. I've been alternating and trying phenylpiracetam, sulbutiamine, rhodiola, tianeptine, and the occasional phenibut dose for tough days (never more than 2 days in a row, with at least 3 days of no use in between before using again, and usually only around 2 grams in a day give or take a half gram or so). I took St. John's Wort for a few days but bugged out a bit by comparing it to SSRI's, something I did not want to get reliant on, and stopped, and have also actually been taking some 98% l-tetrahydropalmatine, which actually seems to work really well for anxiety and any sleep issues. These nootropics do seem to work but only temporarily. I tried doing some research and haven't really seen much addiction potential with the l-THP or most of the others, though I don't want to get psychologically habituated to taking all of this stuff either - but it has been getting me through the days/nights no doubt. But over the course of 2 and 1/2 weeks, my brain doesn't seem to be repairing, and I don't know if it's due to the nootropics preventing it or not. But I do know that they have helped because without them, I'm not sure how I'd still have my job (see below) or my sanity in general, because frankly, this really sucks. Like, bad. I have even been toying with the idea of a carefully pre-planned Iboga trip as a desperate last-resort, though honestly it's something I'd like to try in any case, but especially for a brain "reset" as many claim it can do at this time along with maybe providing some valuable self-therapy and introspection (something I tend to do already, though not always in a good way, at least not when sober), but despite being experienced with psychedelics including Ayahuasca, I am a little scared shitless of Iboga and don't even know who my sitter would be or when/where I would do it or the dosage and ratio of Ibogaine/TA, whatever, etc (rambling I know, my bad).
Anyway my experience for today... I was 2 and 1/2 weeks clean from Kratom, 10 days clean from Valium (which I was only taking on and off in moderate doses for around 3 weeks or so). I'm still clean from the Valium, but today I relapsed on Kratom. Here's why:
Baseline - I have been anxious and depressed in general on and off to begin with like I just said. Like, physiologically. Like I feel like it's the biochemistry in my brain, and not just me convincing myself I'm anxious and/or depressed from bad thinking habits. The depression/anxiety will alternate and come and go, for no apparent reason at any given time, regardless of where I am or what I'm doing, even while working out or meditating, and I'm pretty sure that it's that psychological part of Kratom withdrawal which I heard can last a long time (I have withdrawn from Kratom before, but never experienced the psychological symptoms to this degree before). So, today I was feeling mostly anxiety, though some depression thrown in there too. I am trying to hold on and be strong but it's hard, trying to deal with it anyway I can, through work, working out, keeping busy, taking my supplements, etc.
I've been having some issues at work lately since quitting, and it has bee on my mind on and off. I feel I am quite close to leaving my job, voluntarily or not, considering my boss is a paranoid, insecure should-be-certified whack-job as it is, but has now been giving me an even harder time over bullshit. I'm doing my job, just not to "his liking". Basically, I work in local government, it's all politics, he claims it's not but it is. Anyone with any idea of how society works would know this without me even having to go any further. That's how much of an idiot this guy is. He doesn't even know he's an idiot. Anyway for example, a board of health member owning a restaurant in the same town we contract with, and another restaurant owner's lawyer being our town judge. It doesn't take a genius to know this is an obvious conflict of interest yet one issue for example is he is accusing me of creating a conflict of interest for forming a friendly personal relationship with another random restaurant owner (an ice-cream shop nonetheless) - really all because that board of health restaurant owner is filing complaints, probably because he's worried about losing business from his own nasty-ass restaurant, which he should in any case. These people complain about other restaurants in town when they are 2 of the dirtiest restaurants I've ever seen. They complain to him and he tells me to go after these other restaurant owners who are doing nothing wrong. He makes up his own rules. I know this job isn't for me, but I'm doing what I can to get what nees to be done, done, dealing with it, and saving what I can before leaving, but my boss has just been ridiculous about everything and is getting pissed I'm not doing his dirtywork for him and/or claiming responsibility, so he's picking on every little thing I do now. I know I'm starting to get to him because of all the "official verbal warnings he is starting to give me, probably because he's finally learning I'm not his little puppet who will not follow his made-up rules on what to enforce and how to enforce it according to what he says is "right", even though morally or ethically, or even in some cases legally, it's not - some of the stuff isn't even enforceble by code, even though he likes to pretend it is. It's all bureaucratic, fascist bullshit. Anyway, it's pissing me off, I'm pissing him off, everybody's pissed off, and it's stressing me out as it just another layer of shit on top of all the physiological/psychological symptoms I've been having to deal with. Having to deal with this guy at work along with another "special" coworker who thinks he's the almighty as well is really part of what made me want to use more Kratom during the day and eventually start doing oxys again in the first place, before legit needing even more of them for some surgery I had, which is what really kicked me off the edge regarding dependence. I'm not trying to make justifications or anything, but really. But hey, alright, fine. I've been putting up with it, dealing with it, and hadn't relapsed.
Today's specific situation, tomorrow (technically, today, the 22nd) is my f*cking BIRTHDAY... AND the girl from down the street was having her college graduation party earlier yesterday (the 21st - it's like 3 AM now)... there were some cute girls there, I knew they'd be there, a couple of which I had previously had sex with, but it was an awkward 3-way and I hadn't seen them or talked to them in a year so I was pretty anxious about the whole situation. My parents tell me I should go, that they told them I was going, that I need to go. So I go. Everyone there is drinking. I'm trying to stay clean. I have no friends left in the area, and the few that I do have would only usually meet up for a drink. Something that at least at this point, 2 and 1/2 weeks off of Kratom and feeling anxiety/depression, I wanted to avoid until the recovery process was complete. Meanwhile I get convinced to go to this college grad party wherever everybody and their mother (literally - including my own mother) are drinking. My brother is out drinking with his friends. The few other people I know do nothing except go out for drinks. I put up with it for 2 hours. I said I'd be right back. I went home. I texted my mom and my brother, telling them how hard it was and how I didn't feel I could go back. My brother had no idea what to say (he's 17), my mom was drunk (she's kind of a night-time alcoholic in denial) and didn't know what to say either - they apparently have no idea about addiction, despite me trying to talk to them about it several times and having no one else to talk to besides my drug counselor who usually doesn't get to say much since by the time I'm done bitching and complaining about the past week of my life our hour session is just about over. Party down the road, girls, alcohol, headshop just a few miles away with Kratom extract I can swipe up... What do I do? No where to go, nothing to do, no one to talk to. Wasn't really a fan of AA/NA despite trying a few meetings... listening to other people talk about their problems never really helped me and there weren't really any young people that I saw there either. There were a couple people I had met there though at one point not long ago, and I tried texting them, but nobody answered.
I was freaking out, pacing back and forth. I started crying because I felt so isolated, like the price for sobriety was social isolation - disconnection from everyone, everything. This went on for oer an hour. Around here, all I know on Saturday nights when associating with other people, friends, family, whoever, all I have ever known, is drinking or doing drugs. It seems like no one I know anywhere close to my age around here does anything else. My family all drink. Normally during sober periods of my life I could have a beer or 2 for special occasions, or even dabble in whatever else here or there, psychedelic sessions notwithstanding, but this time it just didn't feel right, my mind wasn't healthy on its own and I sensed it, I knew it, and I didn't want to feed it what it was craving, yet I felt like I had no place. There's a party down the road, family having their own good time, not knowing what the fuck to do, where to go, who to turn to... I seriously considered driving to the airport and just buying the first ticket to South America or somewhere in Cambodia or something, just leaving. So I told my mom what I was experiencing, she just told me she didn't know it was that hard, and just to have some Kratom since it's my birthday anyway, and then go back to the party and have a beer with her... so I did, and then I went back, and felt relaxed, happy, sociable again, like nothing felt wrong again. I have half the extract left which I'll prob use tomorrow before going out to dinner with my fam, but I'm just pissed. I was actually able to have some decent conversations which wouldn't have happened without using... not using just seemed insurmountable tonight. Needless to say I'm disappointed though and really can't see myself staying off the stuff if I stay here doing what I'm doing now.
Update: My brother calls me at 3:30 and wants me to pick him up from his friend's party bc he "doesn't feel good". Sorry bro, I drank. wtf...
Also, my long-time long-distance penpal friend from another state texted and wished me a happy birthday and then proceeded to tell me about her apparent alcohol addiction which I saw coming from a mile away like 6 years ago and how she also now eats pot brownies to help her sleep at night and had to use fake pee to pass a drug test at work. Oh the wonderful life of an addict. I told her to try Kratom since at least it doesn't show up on drug tests. I really don't know what else to say. Connecting with her did make me feel better though.
This is never going away wtffffff.....
