Huh? That is the point.
General Heroin Discussion 20 v. Walking Around in Women's Underwear
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Huh? That is the point.
Carl Landrover
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Where do you draw the line then?
If I have a problem with opiates and that has been my biggest downfall, then am I not clean if I have a few drinks every now and then? I'm talking maybe 1-2 nights a week. Or am I only "clean" on the 5-6 days that I didn't drink?
What about if someone takes caffeine? I know a lot of people who pretty much can't get going with the day without their morning dose of caffeine. They are addicted and suffer WD symptoms without it (fatigue, headaches). It's a drug. It's just socially acceptable and inexpensive. Yet, if they're addicted to a drug aren't they not clean going by your standard of not being on any substance at all?
^I agree Carl cause all the bad shit(OD's,health and legal trouble) that heroin users face is just cause the drug is deemed illegal. If it were legal that shit would stop tomorrow. Pure,pharm. heroin does not damage the body,unlike legal cigs and alcohol which both kill thousands every year.
One more time, the definition of clean is "free from drug addiction." If you are truly addicted to caffeine then no. I never said you couldn't drink. This conversation started about methadone. If you take that every day you are addicted to it. If you have to smoke weed everyday to not use heroin, you are addicted to it. Clean clean (2x) is when you are truly off everything.
Edit because that "one more time" intro sounded crazy dickish. Definitely don't take it like that. I think that being on methadone or subs, while beneficial to many, is not the same as being completely clean. I understand that those on these drugs take it as an insult, but its not. Just the truth.
Edit because that "one more time" intro sounded crazy dickish. Definitely don't take it like that. I think that being on methadone or subs, while beneficial to many, is not the same as being completely clean. I understand that those on these drugs take it as an insult, but its not. Just the truth.
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alteknj
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I completely understand what you mean. Of course, clean and maintenance are two different things to many people. And if you believe you need to abstain from all psychoactive substances to be clean, then good for you. And the majority of 12 steppers and drug counselors would agree with it. I just don't think it's right to set a standard on it. People would rather live in a bubble and safe with all these restrictions. Good for them, but just don't project it on me. I am not directing at it you, but people in general. I have such a huge problem with drug counselors doing this. If I can have a drink every now and then or smoke some weed, then what the fuck? I am an adult. I don't need your approval or permission. But to say I am not clean or whatever. I hate the way these words are used so subjectively and nitpicked to death. Bottom line is I think I know what's best for me and what I can and can't do successfully. Every 12 steppers would say "But your best thinking got you here." No, my worst thinking did. I don't need people to tell me what I can/should be doing. Heroin ruined my life. Heroin. And if it was free or cheap like methadone at a clinic, I could maintain on it then I would be exactly where I am on methadone. Dependant, not addicted.
Carl Landrover
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So what do you think about anti-depressants that someone has to take daily and might have to taper off of before you can stop them? Are those people not clean?
I understand what you're saying, and no offense meant, but that is still your opinion. Claiming something as "truth" is usually going to cause an argument.
I understand what you're saying, and no offense meant, but that is still your opinion. Claiming something as "truth" is usually going to cause an argument.
somnilicious
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It is all about quality of life..... The definition of clean is irrelevant when considering the pros and cons of maintenance. However I do believe it cheapens the experiences of those who are totally clean when people on maintenance say they are clean. Right now I am totally clean except for soda and sleepy time tea. It has been extremely difficult to adjust and deal with life but I am actually happier than when I was on maintenance. I get to experience happiness on a level that was before unknown but on the flip side I also experience more fears and emotional lows. This latter part has been a challenge but I often find myself filled with excitement and laughing with pure joy which I didn't experience after years of maintenance. On maintenance I felt emotionally blunted. I experienced emotions but they were intellectualized emotions. It was almost as if I had to tell myself I was happy and then I would be. Now that I am clean these emotions are forced on me.
With this said I believe that maintenance is as close to being clean as one can be without pure abstinence and if it helps them improve their quality of life than who cares. Go to school, excel in your career, find a partner and settle into a nice home. If methadone helps you get these things and find peace than fuck what anybody else thinks.
I love being clean but I can't deny a part of me wants to go back to the clinic but then I realize that that is just fear of the unknown trying to force me into escape mode. Its hard to explain the unrestrained emotions to someone who has been on the clinic for a while but if it improves your quality of life then my previous statement stands. Fuck em all and their rigid ideals.
With this said I believe that maintenance is as close to being clean as one can be without pure abstinence and if it helps them improve their quality of life than who cares. Go to school, excel in your career, find a partner and settle into a nice home. If methadone helps you get these things and find peace than fuck what anybody else thinks.
I love being clean but I can't deny a part of me wants to go back to the clinic but then I realize that that is just fear of the unknown trying to force me into escape mode. Its hard to explain the unrestrained emotions to someone who has been on the clinic for a while but if it improves your quality of life then my previous statement stands. Fuck em all and their rigid ideals.
Tommyboy
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I wouldn't say that everyone on methadone maintenance is addicted to it. Surely they are dependent on it and the two often go hand-in-hand, but not always.
If you don't particularly care for methadone but it works for your cravings then you are not necessarily addicted to it.
Why do they think it's laced with benzos andnot just really good / potent 'gear' aka dope? Benzos are most effective when taken orally, so if it's in gear that's smoked then it's mostly getting wasted since heat destroys it. If it's being IV'd then barely any makes it into the shot since it'd not soluble in water.
Again, addiction and dependence are not the same thing and can't be used interchangeably.
Some people very well are addicted to their maintenance drug. I knew a few people that liked their suboxone script a little too much, and so would try getting high off of it and were still living the life of an addict by trying to obtain more sub and mixing things with it to get higher.
Then on the other hand there are people that barley feel anything from their suboxone and just use it to help with cravings and that's it. They stick to a strict dosing schedule outlined by their doctor and don't try altering things to get a better buzz. These people are dependent on the suboxone in order to function normally but they are not addicted to it like the people abusing it are.
That's not to say that people aren't addicted to these drugs just because they take it as prescribed. Some people enjoy the way it makes them feel and they cannot wait for their next dose, but they stick to the prescribed dosing possibly just so they don't run out or anything.
With the anti-depressants I guess its kind of like that porn quote "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." There's just a different feel.
The word dependent is actually in the definition for addicted.
And counselors, fuck man please don't get me going on them. I've had maybe one or two good ones, but many who were so fucking dumb street smarts wise.
Anyone see the soccer game? Couldn't care less about the sport, but I won't lie felt real deflated for about 15 minutes after.
The word dependent is actually in the definition for addicted.
And counselors, fuck man please don't get me going on them. I've had maybe one or two good ones, but many who were so fucking dumb street smarts wise.
Anyone see the soccer game? Couldn't care less about the sport, but I won't lie felt real deflated for about 15 minutes after.
I know a guy who takes 1or 2 Vicodin a day. He is not addicted to them but most likely would have withdrawals if he didn't take them. Just like if I missed a dose of methadone or what about if my diabetic friend didn't take his insulin? Yes there are a lot of people on methadone that abuse it and mix it with benzos and other drugs. If I could smoke weed without repercussions at the clinic I would on occasion. I consider myself clean of abusing opiates because they are what fucks everything up for me. There are good arguments for both sides and I feel we all will never agree on this subject. But just because some of us need opiate replacement therapy should not diminish the fact that we are living our lives happily and it does take a lot of work to stay sober even on methadone.
How the heck can there be a tie game? Do both teams advance or do they not advance? I guess I don't like it because I don't take the time to understand it.
cj
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Ok I'll try to explain but I'm no expert either. There are 4 teams in the group and the top 2 teams advance at the end of 3 games. A win is worth 3 points a tie is 1 point and a loss is 0 points. So the 2 teams with the most points at the end advance to the knockout round. I
MemphisX3
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what do they do if you fail for weed? i have failed every single test for weed and they just dont care. they even tell me they dont care. and not just my counselor, the doctor who owns the place told me too.
MemphisX3
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in the end the only definition of clean that matters is your own. if you were a heroin addict but you take methadone to live a normal life and consider yourself "clean" and you are happy with yourself then who the fuck cares what some other mother fucker has to say about it?
They withhold your take homes.