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General Heroin Discussion 20 v. Walking Around in Women's Underwear

Picking a lawyer is hard. Just looking up random names in the phone book seemed a little nonchalant. But those internet rating systems don't really give much info so it honestly felt about the same. I scheduled 2 different appointments for next week to see what there talking about. I ended up getting a failure to appear warrant while I was in rehab because the dumbass social worker at the tc dropped the ball and sent the letter to get a postponement too late. Otherwise I was planning to use the public defender. Now I'm questioning that decision a little bit. But my plan right now is to use the paid lawyer to get the warrant squashed then see what the public defender is talking about compared to paid counsel. I really don't think I can do probation right now. I feel like it would just end up being a revolving door back to jail for me. So if I can negotiate a plea where I do a month or so in county instead of probation I will probably take that deal. Especially since I don't have a habit right now.
 
Carl Landrover said:
It's way worse in the winter imo

I don't miss still feeling cold despite being wrapped in blankets and wearing double layers of socks, pants, and shirts.
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I like Winter for the fact that it's a lot easier to steal shit and shoplift from stores. Kind of hard to do it with shorts and a t-shirt in summer. But Summer is when everyone comes out and I have fond memories of cruising Newark in the summer. Granted, there will always be people outside selling drugs any time of year. It's an atmosphere thing.
 
Clean is when one is not on any substances at all. If methadone or subs or weed helped get your shit together that's awesome, but saying you're clean is a bit disingenuous. I always looked at it like if you were dropped on an island would you be able to function. No? You are dependent, not clean. The definition in the dictionary is "free from drug addiction" You can't change the meaning of a word to suit yourself. But, like I said, its truly great if it has allowed you to live a fulfilling life.

On another level people on methadone or subs saying they're clean kind of cheapens the word. Being truly clean clean(how I designate so there is no confusion) takes something else entirely and those who have done it deserve the prestige.

Crimson - you can always search a firm's or lawyer's name on your newspaper website, see what they've been involved with.
 
^Can we cut the shit about shit. That said I was on hi dose methadone for 14 years and would take a couple of tbs of generic Metamucil every night. I know it tastes shitty but it's the best thing if you just mix it w/ water and just down it. What do you think the grit in the 40mg. wafers was? Once you start using it regular it gives you about an hour post dose window to do your thing and you will be amazed at how effective and easy the shit comes out. And it also lowers your cholesterol too. So that's my 2 cents but really it's great and keeps you regular.And it's natural and basically scrapes your intestines clean without any bad side effects. No lasting damage like all the other shit mentioned here but you gotta do it every day for it to work and you can skip a day now and then as long as you stick with it.
 
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^metamucil bloats me but then so does miralax. So far these chia seeds are working wonders though. Ch ch ch chia.

Sorry porky but im on methadone and consider myself clean. I abstain from my DOC and dont get high from my meds and my quality of life ia great im actually happy for once (feels weird but i love it). I dont see using methadone any different than a depressed using SSRIs or an ADD kid using amphetamines.
 
porkchops said:
Clean is when one is not on any substances at all. If methadone or subs or weed helped get your shit together that's awesome, but saying you're clean is a bit disingenuous. I always looked at it like if you were dropped on an island would you be able to function. No? You are dependent, not clean. The definition in the dictionary is "free from drug addiction" You can't change the meaning of a word to suit yourself. But, like I said, its truly great if it has allowed you to live a fulfilling life.

On another level people on methadone or subs saying they're clean kind of cheapens the word. Being truly clean clean(how I designate so there is no confusion) takes something else entirely and those who have done it deserve the prestige.

Crimson - you can always search a firm's or lawyer's name on your newspaper website, see what they've been involved with.
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I understand where you are coming from, but it shouldn't be a pissing contest. Nobody deserves prestige over something like this. I don't believe in 12 step programs, but the best little recovery cliche I ever heard came out of a meeting. "Work your own program." Nobody has any authority or even the right to an opinion about your recovery program. You can't tell someone they aren't clean because they are on methadone. You are entitled to your opinion, but you shouldn't really express it to people like that. If someone is improving their life on methadone, subs and they consider themselves clean, then let them. They are clean. There is no basis to argue with someone over it. And I am not attacking you or anything lol so don't get it twisted. I am just telling you how I view it. Yea I might be dependent on something, but I consider it a medication. And I would not consider myself addicted to it. Dependent yes. Someone said I was switching one addiction with another getting on methadone. I say bullshit. Work your own program. Worry about yourself. I don't mean to nitpick definitions because I definetly understand where you are coming from. People abstain 100% from drugs. But it's all so subjective. People pick and choose. Oh I'll smoke weed but I won't do anything. Oh I can social drink. Oh caffeine and nicotine are drugs too! I just worry about myself.
 
I think it sucks we define our lives through society's dictionary. Clean is the opposite of dirty right? So when we use it in the context of drugs it means you are not dirty. So are people who do use drugs dirty? Are they unclean? See when we frame the conversation in that way it's easy for society to think negatively of us and drugs in general. It makes it easier for them to dismiss my rights as a human being. Easy to lock me in a cage. After all even the language tells them I am a dirty person unfit for society. Just something I have been thinking about.
 
I always preferred kicking in the winter. It's easier to just burrow up for a week and just try to drink to soup than it is to deal with the heat when kicking while the rest of the world is in full bloom. Having said that, it might be easier to stay clean in the summer since there is more to do to keep your mind occupied.

As for the whole 'clean' debate, well I will agree that there is certainly a difference between being on maintenance drugs and being totally clean from all substances. Having said that, I also feel that no person should have to go through unnecessary suffering, and so if they need a maintenance drug to help them then that is fine. It's so hard to stay clean when you have no job, no money, no trust and basically no self worth. And I don't care how well you work any steps if you still feel bad about yourself then things will not pan out for yourself in terms of staying clean. Therefore it's good for some people to use maintenance drugs to build these things (as well as their self-worth) back up so that they have a better chance of staying clean if they wish to get off of maintenance drugs.

If the person is using these drugs properly then that is a great step in the right direction. I don't consider it fully clean but don't really care much either, it's just for the sake of defining the term to me. I only have a problem with it when the people are still acting like druggies and abusing the meds. A couple of months ago I was in the same room as this kid that was going on about being clean in between sniffing lines of subutex mixed with crushed up xanax. He said he was still clean since he was scripted the subutex, and that the xanax didn't really count against him since he was scripted clonazepam which 'is basically the same thing.' He also smoked a ton of weed as well as selling it as his main source of income, and he made it out that night since he lied to his family saying he was going to an NA meeting but he really went out to smoke weed on top of doing those pills (also more subutex than prescribed.) After that he asked where he could get more sub since he did more than prescribed and didn't want to go sick due to it. Now that's definitely not clean since he was still abusing various drugs as well as living the life of an addict.

So I'm sure as hell not going to come in here talking down to people on maintenance drugs when I know thealternative. And like Memphis was saying about his bad thoughts, if methadone is the only thing that would make them stop then is he not clean for being in it? Should he have been a proud man and gone through with it rather than getting on done? Would one rather feel horrible but 'clean' rather than normal on maintenance? Anybody that has lived through this knows the answers.
 
Clean, dirty, whatever. That's all bs anyways. The point isn't to stop using drugs altogether, it's to put your life back together and to live the life you want to be living. If that means avoiding all drugs because you can't control your use of anything, so be it, if that means just avoiding your DOC because you can use other drugs occasionally and not have it be a problem, that's fine too. When I stopped using dope for a couple years, I smoked pot daily and frequently used Xanax that I was prescribed. Was my recovery a failure because I still was using drugs of some kind? Ultimately yes, but that's not the point. While I was staying away from dope I was working, had a social life, wasn't racking up debt or getting arrested, wasn't constantly sick and thinking about how to get enough money together to go cop. I was living a fairly normal life. That to me was good enough to be considered a successful recovery.
 
Never was my intention to devalue anyone who is happy on methadone/subs. Twice I said how awesome it was if they contributed toward turning your life around. My point is/was the definition of the word. Shea, I can consider a triangle a square, that doesn't make it so. Alteknj, dude its great how much better you're living, but yo anyway you slice it you are addicted to the methadone. I really enjoyed reading your blog by the way. Throw in an Allentown tale. I think Tommyboy got my point across diplomatically. Being clean clean is something to take pride in and I do look at those who've done it with a certain type of respect.

Rehab in the summer sucks, Rehab in the winter fucking really sucks.
 
ATLL765 said:
Clean, dirty, whatever. That's all bs anyways. The point isn't to stop using drugs altogether, it's to put your life back together and to live the life you want to be living. If that means avoiding all drugs because you can't control your use of anything, so be it, if that means just avoiding your DOC because you can use other drugs occasionally and not have it be a problem, that's fine too. When I stopped using dope for a couple years, I smoked pot daily and frequently used Xanax that I was prescribed. Was my recovery a failure because I still was using drugs of some kind? Ultimately yes, but that's not the point. While I was staying away from dope I was working, had a social life, wasn't racking up debt or getting arrested, wasn't constantly sick and thinking about how to get enough money together to go cop. I was living a fairly normal life. That to me was good enough to be considered a successful recovery.
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This is pretty much how I feel about it.
 
crimsonjunk said:
I think it sucks we define our lives through society's dictionary. Clean is the opposite of dirty right? So when we use it in the context of drugs it means you are not dirty. So are people who do use drugs dirty? Are they unclean? See when we frame the conversation in that way it's easy for society to think negatively of us and drugs in general. It makes it easier for them to dismiss my rights as a human being. Easy to lock me in a cage. After all even the language tells them I am a dirty person unfit for society. Just something I have been thinking about.
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This is a good point never thought about that.

As with what atll said, recovery is a much better term than clean. Starting to say clean does turn it into a pissing contest as said before, like AA and their little chips and unwelcome attitude towards maintenance drugs.

I know ill never really fit the definition of other peoples clean, i feel hardwired to be an opiate addict and theres a void in my brain when im sober. Methadone fills that voidw out getting me high or turned into a zombie, and live a productive live going to school and working. Im two years shy of my bachelors right now actually, just finished spring semester a few weeks ago.
 
You do what you gotta do and don't worry what anyone else thinks. Just don't let me see you wearing white socks and sandals.
 
New and from uk, just a question. People keep telling me a particular gear is laced with benzos. I always thought this was crap until I witnessed 2 close friends/users get totally seriously smashed. Some one please tell me the facts. I'm also jealous as I must be a "fast metaboliser or sumik" as I don't seem to get wasted liked my using partners do. HELP. Willzz
 
ohshea said:
^but i live in white socks and birkenstocks.
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Ya but I bet you don't hike the tube socks up to your knee wearing plaid shorts and a Hawaiian shirt complaining about 'the kids today'
 
ATLL765 said:
Clean, dirty, whatever. That's all bs anyways. The point isn't to stop using drugs altogether, it's to put your life back together and to live the life you want to be living. If that means avoiding all drugs because you can't control your use of anything, so be it, if that means just avoiding your DOC because you can use other drugs occasionally and not have it be a problem, that's fine too. When I stopped using dope for a couple years, I smoked pot daily and frequently used Xanax that I was prescribed. Was my recovery a failure because I still was using drugs of some kind? Ultimately yes, but that's not the point. While I was staying away from dope I was working, had a social life, wasn't racking up debt or getting arrested, wasn't constantly sick and thinking about how to get enough money together to go cop. I was living a fairly normal life. That to me was good enough to be considered a successful recovery.
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yo man you hit the nail right on the fucking head.. that is exactly 100% how i feel. except you cant say that shit around counselors at a methadone clinic, rehab facility or people at 12 step meetings because they will INSTANTLY fucking chastise you for thinking like that, when really its none of their fucking business and there is no right or wrong. but you will not get away saying that shit to a drug counselor in a program, so i play the part, i speak the lingo and just sit there until were done. i can honestly say that having a few beers with my boys once in a while or smoking a little weed aint going to fucking harm me in anyway. yes i am a drug addict, heroin. heroin ruined my god damn life. but its always the same response "weed and alcohol are drugs too. use once and you might get away with it, but you wont use twice and the same thing happen. then youll end up in a jail cell blacked out wondering what went wrong." i never got into any trouble over drinking or pot or even taking a fucking benzo every now and then. it was 100% all heroin and opiates. i follow the rules i have to follow so whatever. i know i dont ever really want to go back to using dope because of it, but a drink or some weed now and then? get the fuck outta here, im not living my life like a chump.
 
porkchops said:
Clean is when one is not on any substances at all.
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That's not like it's written in stone. People have different ideas of "clean". There was a thread talking about this in the Dark Side board recently. I've considered myself clean before when I was only vaporizing weed. Saying otherwise implies that what I'm doing is "dirty" and that I'm dirty still for using.
 
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