Misc Kratom withdrawal, keep track here

[asiam]

Just out of curiousity whiteroom, not to be personal but how did you afford a treatment center? is it the kind of thing you can save for in a few years if things were to subsist or progress? Or is it something you can borrow money.. or insurance or something. To me it sounds like a dream, to have people there to help you with whatever disturbs you underneath all the compulsions. I always thought it was impossible because of cost. Also because my addictions can seem so subtle to harder ones but i feel like i'm only using light things because i have no access to harder things namely opiates, i know i'd be in trouble if oxycontin ever became available again.

 

[whiteroom67]

Well... Yeah, its through insurance, thru my job. But even some of the meds that arent covered are within reason price wise. You can always go w silk road if you have the guts ive used it many a time and it was okay... I just always encrypted everything.

Honestly asiam by the time your kratom gets there you may want to figure out a way to keep yourself from taking it. It will have been about 5 days clean already, and you should give your brain more time to recover before occasionally indulging again.

 

[penpal]

Do you guys know what the average threshold frequency/amount is that a person could use kratom without the risk of getting WDs?

Is it more of a matter of how often its used or is it more dependent on the dose thing(e.i. people using over x amount of grams a day are much more likely to get it, where as jonny can use below x-amount daily and be fine)???

 

[asiam]

Do you guys know what the average threshold frequency/amount is that a person could use kratom without the risk of getting WDs?

Is it more of a matter of how often its used or is it more dependent on the dose thing(e.i. people using over x amount of grams a day are much more likely to get it, where as jonny can use below x-amount daily and be fine)???

From my experience at least it depends more on how often you use it. If I were to use any amount and then use more 1 hour later, it wouldn't affect me. It has a very quick tolerance, which is related to dependence of the body. If you were to use 1 tbsp every 2 days vs. 1/2 tbsp every day for a month, no doubt that you'd have more of a withdrawal using it every day. But as I said, just personal experience. I've read by others that they agree, they cannot use it multiple days in a row for long without a tolerance building. So imo it would be better to take more if it means a day off

 

[asiam]

I agree whiteroom, I think that's part of my subliminal plan haha. Be able to count down the hours and feel safe that it will come eventually, but also be in a better state by the time it comes. Withdrawals = cravings, which were strong, but i know theyll fade even after just 3 days. Also, sorry for asking personal information. I just didn't know that rehab centers accepted insurance at all. What is silk road?

 

[whiteroom67]

Yeah just know if using too soon after withdrawing like that can reverse your withdrawals and bring them right back to where they were.

Silk Road is an anonymous online website in the deep web that people can buy "stuff" from. If you google it you will learn more about it.

 

[weekend addiction]

I am on day 4 of no kratom. I was only dosing about 5 grams in the morning every morning but I had maintained the habit a decent at least 2-3 months without breaks. The only thing I feel negatively is a total lack of energy and I am a bit edgy. I will be getting more kratom shortly and hopefully the withdrawals will be over. A few days away from the stuff will do me good in the long run. It will mentally prepare me to quit if I have to or am forced to due to some circumstance.

 

[JJ-180]

Tolerance drops really quickly after a few days off. I fully understand what you mean about a total lack of energy. That is one of the worse things about Kratom. At 5 gms a day I wouldn't expect too much in the way of w/d's but everybody's different. And what can seem like Hell to one person can feel like nothing to another. It's Kratom after all and the alkaloid mix affects people in different ways.

 

[whiteroom67]

I am on day 4 of no kratom. I was only dosing about 5 grams in the morning every morning but I had maintained the habit a decent at least 2-3 months without breaks. The only thing I feel negatively is a total lack of energy and I am a bit edgy. I will be getting more kratom shortly and hopefully the withdrawals will be over. A few days away from the stuff will do me good in the long run. It will mentally prepare me to quit if I have to or am forced to due to some circumstance.

Yeah, at that level I would expect you to be back to normal at about the one week point. At that point, it's probably safe to dabble in Kratom again, just stay smart about it. 5 grams once a day is alright, I'd say.

 

[asiam]

soo i was on day 5 yesterday and became discouraged when I realized some of my previous w/d symptoms were replaced with other symptoms, abdominal pain, headache, horrible eye and nose (??) dryness/stinging, sore throat and a feeling that my eyes and brain were swollen. The old ones such as fatigue, feeling of fever, loss of appetite, complete inability to sleep were still there, although cold and hot flashes were gone and the fatigue was quite a lot better. I woke up on day 6 (well, more like I stayed awake until day 6, didn't sleep for 2 days from day 4-6) and I didn't feel any better and became discouraged, having day 5 as my 'I will feel at least slightly normal!" goal day. I had ordered that 30g of kratom to sleep and it helped, but upon taking it I realized that I also caught some kind of other sickness on top of the withdrawal because the sore throat, abdominal pain, head pressure etc remained if not got worse throughout the day. Also, the RLS felt just the same as day 3, complete inability to sleep, and i could not go another night without sleeping. I just can't stand going through the RLS and sleeplessness that I expected to be at least kind of gone by now, on top of a sickness now.

So, i'm trying to figure out a very limited taper plan now. Taking it after being off it for a little, this stuff does NOThiNG and the withdrawal was SO bad, so I know i'm too scared to take the amount I did before or ever use it constantly again. I also realized that kratom was making me manic and very compulsive, on it I feel like I have to compulsive buy, compulsive binge eat, and compulsively smoke basically all at once and there is no off button. I was wondering why I was basically manic buying and eating junk food all year and that was definitely it. Basically what i'm saying is having some time away from it, I realize it's seriously uncomfortable and must have changed with any tolerance. I feel as if taking 1 tbsp or .5 tbsp every second day is now possible after those 5 days

 

[asiam]

sorry screw what i said, i'm going cold turkey minus 1 tsp to sleep tomorrow. Taking any amount in the daytime gets me so compulsive, I can't control how much I take and I cannot stand the binge eating that seems to come with this stuff after the tolerance changes the effects to such. at least now I realize it wasn't me that was out of control all this time!

 

[Beavesmx44]

sorry screw what i said, i'm going cold turkey minus 1 tsp to sleep tomorrow. Taking any amount in the daytime gets me so compulsive, I can't control how much I take and I cannot stand the binge eating that seems to come with this stuff after the tolerance changes the effects to such. at least now I realize it wasn't me that was out of control all this time!

You seem to have very strange reactions to this substance. Manic? Compulsive? Very strange indeed. Nothing else changed at all except dropping the kratom and all these personal issues went away instantly huh? Most would tell you this is by far the least compulsive opiate available. Everyone is different i guess.

 

[weekend addiction]

Yeah, at that level I would expect you to be back to normal at about the one week point. At that point, it's probably safe to dabble in Kratom again, just stay smart about it. 5 grams once a day is alright, I'd say.

You would think that was alright but like I said I felt significantly off. Just took my first dose in a week and feel "normal." I would like to avoid regular use but its legal, cheap, and less toxic than my other vices.

 

[whiteroom67]

You would think that was alright but like I said I felt significantly off. Just took my first dose in a week and feel "normal." I would like to avoid regular use but its legal, cheap, and less toxic than my other vices.

I feel the same way about it. Using it to get off of harder opiates, even after almost 2 weeks, my body still did not feel "normal" without it, but I blame that on the oxys I was using along with it, the dependency of which the Kratom was maintaining, hence the longer withdrawal period. Even now, because of my occasional dabbling on Kratom too soon, my brain and body still have yet to completely normalize, though it's close. 30 days completely clear of everything and I'm sure I would be 100%. Psychologically, I find that very hard at the moment, finding myself needing to do "something" almost everyday, even something slight, just for a head change. I find myself feeling like shit at at least some part of the day though because of this, which really makes me want to push myself through the 30 day mark, but the cravings to do something are always there, mostly because of my lack of stimulation in day-to-day life. At least that's what I blame it on. I know it's up to me to change that, but there's only so many options around here I feel.

 

[asiam]

my quitting has gone a similar way of weekend addiction, I was on day 4 again after going through 5 days last week, kratom showing up from an order, then going off of it again 3 days later, and going 4 days after running out. bah! Frustrating, the last 2 stints of no kratom have been really tough, mostly the constant panic attack and not sleeping for 3 days twice. The lack of sleep always causes me to order more because by day 5, it feels like the sleeplessness is just getting worse, and then when the kratom comes i jump back into it being so sick of feeling horrible and basically all that I did to get off of it feels like it was just a break. Really frustrating. Maybe tapering is better

 

[whiteroom67]

I could never pull off a taper... at least not any of the situations I have specifically been in. I am now 3 days clean again... minor body chills and restlessness, but not much, and some anxiety, which I'm treating with a low-dose combo of some Phenibut and Valium... plus I just started taking a nootropic combo of phenylpiracetam and subtuliamine or whatever it is and it seems to help with the energy... but just now I also just added Wellbutrin back into the mix (only 150 mgs SR 12 hr), just to see how it helps or what goes on. Not planning on continuining this... after today no more Phenibut for sure, and Valium only for a couple more days, if that. Wellbutrin I will see. I feel myself going back to normal much fast this time, due to being away from it for 2 weeks already and only being back on it for a week or so, so long-term abstinence plus short-term usage definitely does help and make a differece, just stay away as long as you can and you will start to see a difference. I have started incorporating the 12 steps back into my life and plan on using some sort of trip, whether a acid/candyflip and/or possibly Iboga in the near future to totally conquer steps 3-5 without a chance of backing out. I am feeling better though so you will too with abstinence, just have faith in yourself and the universe and it will work out. I like to think we are in this position for a reason. While that reason may not be presently apparent, I'm sure it will be one day. Just have faith. Hold on. You're doing okay. Have strength. You have it in you, we all do. We just need to find our unique ways to access it. I'm here, and so are the rest of us. We are glad to be of service to you, for all the support you need

 

[asiam]

the intensity and also longevity of the withdrawal caught me by total surprise. I went about 6 days and then used very lightly 3 more days and it was just the same as day 3, it didn't get any better after day 5. When I got a small amount so i could fall asleep, I found myself gradually using more and more just wanting to get away from feeling like shit for so long. So now i've been slowly creeping up to my amount before for the past 1 month since i stopped writing here (it' only been a month? OMG maybe there's hope I thought it had been like 3) and I feel like i'm in this position where i'm not motivated at all to go through that again, but when I try to taper I don't feel a difference taking a smaller amount because of tolerance, and the fact that no matter how much I take I ALWAYS feel in slight withdrawal. I get impatient and just take the rest of the dose a few hours later and say i'll start tomorrow. ;/
Either way, I used the money I had left over to take a break from work on kratom, and i'm down to 70 bucks. This means basically that i am forced to quit within about 2 weeks and I really hope I can get the patience to taper before it's all gone... How are you all going?

 

[whiteroom67]

Your experience sounds a lot like mine... that feeling of always feeling in slight withdrawal regardless of taking more again, and the tolerance, and not having the patience to go through it again. That was me lol. But once you get past it, it starts getting better. The mental part after the physical sucks even worse though if you get it (anxiety/depression/lethargy/anhedonia/etc) and that takes longer to clear out. Maybe like a month. That month feels like forever, it really does, but really if you think about it, one month out of your whole life isn't much time at all. And then it's mostly better and over with, and you're free. I try to keep it in perspective like that. Having a goal to look forward to helps too. Like getting into better shape and working out, along with saving the extra money for traveling, etc. Plus, since quitting and letting my brain equalize closer to normal, I feel more clear and connected to things... like my spirituality and connection to others and the environment is slowly coming back. I forgot what it felt like. I relapsed a couple times within the past month, only for like a day or two, but because it had only been a couple of weeks since really quitting and I wasn't completely healed yet, it actually brought back the withdrawal symptoms a little bit again for awhile, even just from one day of use, which I was totally surprised about. Not nearly as bad as before, but still. You gotta stay away completely until you're 100%, and even then I'd say keep away until you don't even think about it anymore. When you don't care about it at all anymore, that's when it MIGHT be safe to use again. Albeit more intelligently. But even that I'd say is risky. Multivitamins, fish oil, good diet with lots of fruits and veggies, and exercise like weight lifting + cardio all help, and actually I have found cycling nootropics to help with the mental part too, though it costs a little more money. Seemed worth it to me though.

 

[drewbocop]

I'm getting ready to finally give the stuff up for good after I recently lost my job. Figured now is as good of time as any and I've really been getting fed up with always maintaining some sort of addiction for the last 10 years. I am going to be stopping a monster kratom habit (compared to the doses I'm seeing here anyways.) Just doing a quick taper with my last ~350 grams and going through with it. I don't find kratom withdrawal to be all that terrible, but the mental aspect definitely hurts. It will be so nice to finally be back to living without having to carry something around with me all the time. Been switching up addictions forever and kratom has been an effective weapon between true opioid withdrawal since 2008. Wish me luck!

 

[whiteroom67]

I'm getting ready to finally give the stuff up for good after I recently lost my job. Figured now is as good of time as any and I've really been getting fed up with always maintaining some sort of addiction for the last 10 years. I am going to be stopping a monster kratom habit (compared to the doses I'm seeing here anyways.) Just doing a quick taper with my last ~350 grams and going through with it. I don't find kratom withdrawal to be all that terrible, but the mental aspect definitely hurts. It will be so nice to finally be back to living without having to carry something around with me all the time. Been switching up addictions forever and kratom has been an effective weapon between true opioid withdrawal since 2008. Wish me luck!

Good luck! You seem to have a positive mindset which will help tremendously. It's the #1 thing really. Just never give in and know that it will pass.