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    Kratom withdrawal, keep track here 
    #1
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    A while ago there was a thread started where a few people were posting updates on getting off of kratom and getting through the withdrawals. I understand some people don't get withdrawals, but when you do it is real.

    i've been using kratom on and off for 3 years, the first year it was just every once in awhile, then it became every other day for another year simply to keep the tolerance down. The days in between i did nothing except wait for the next day. then i was off of it for a good while after going through a minor, very minor withdrawal. But 8 months ago i started using it again to get through a job socially. Ever since then i have been constantly on it with absolutely no gap except for a 3 day stint, after finding out first hand that if you don't take breaks at first, there IS a nasty withdrawal that is hard to get through. This is the first time I have been stuck on kratom from just not wanting the withdrawal. it feels like extreme constant discomfort, especially in the legs, irritability and raging at everything (during the 3 day stint, i was on a road trip with my mom, and i get carsick with any amount of kratom so i had to go off. i even screamed at her saying she was a bitch because she drank my coffee, when there was a whole pot there. I made us go all the way home), apathy and lack of interest in anything which feels like even more discomfort, and the complete and utter inability to sleep, even for days.

    I take around 4-6 tbsp of the powder a day, i'm not sure how much that is in grams.

    Kratom felt like my dream drug and happy ever after, ha. A combination between opiate and stimulant. But now it has no effect what so ever on me except for making me feel spiritually foggy, and foggy in general, also tired all the time. I'm at the point where i just can't live like this anymore, I have no motivation at all to do anything and I'm not getting anything out of this.

    i've told myself that i'm going to taper the whole last 4 months and it doesn't happen. i'm honestly not sure if i should sign myself up to any plan, so i will make up that plan tomorrow morning when i remember the withdrawal feeling upon waking.

    Anyone that comes on here and is all 'oh haha kratom withdrawal, that's nothing'. i've been through other withdrawals, namely oxycontin/vicodin, even though that was a while ago it is very comparable.
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    Kratom w/d's are not easy at all. Just because it seems such a weak opioid doesn't mean easy w/d's- I pulled off about 20g a day of plain leaf and the intensity of w/d's surprised me. I had full-on shits, RLS,aching muscles(particularly the legs!), constant nausea and retching. The good news though is that it doesn't last too long. Four days and it was definitely easing off. The big problem then is what to fill your days with. I was restless and unable to settle to anything for weeks. I totally agree with you that Kratom w/d is comparable to other opiate w/d's. I'm not sure that planning a taper is going to be any use. I found that tapering was just frustrating, you're looking for a drug effect that just isn't going to happen because of the reduced doses. My advice would be to just stop cold, brutal as that sounds! Like most opi w/d's Kratom w/d is not dangerous It's just not pleasant. Not pleasant at all. Best of luck however you choose to go.
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    #3
    Phenibut kills all withdrawal from Kratom for me. Just keep it at four days to cover acute.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ-180 View Post
    Kratom w/d's are not easy at all. Just because it seems such a weak opioid doesn't mean easy w/d's- I pulled off about 20g a day of plain leaf and the intensity of w/d's surprised me. I had full-on shits, RLS,aching muscles(particularly the legs!), constant nausea and retching. The good news though is that it doesn't last too long. Four days and it was definitely easing off. The big problem then is what to fill your days with. I was restless and unable to settle to anything for weeks. I totally agree with you that Kratom w/d is comparable to other opiate w/d's. I'm not sure that planning a taper is going to be any use. I found that tapering was just frustrating, you're looking for a drug effect that just isn't going to happen because of the reduced doses. My advice would be to just stop cold, brutal as that sounds! Like most opi w/d's Kratom w/d is not dangerous It's just not pleasant. Not pleasant at all. Best of luck however you choose to go.
    Just wondering, but you were doing this EVERY DAY right?

    I have just started experimenting with Kratom and have been told that if I only dose 2-3 days a week with at least 2 days of no use between any dose that I will never become addicted.

    Just making sure your experience is synonymous.

    Good luck with your withdrawals!
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    Yup, every day. Had quite a tolerance.
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    I take close to ~40 grams per day, some in daytime, and some while i work my midnights to push through the work. Buys me time to watch a movie and an episode or something. The withdrawals aren't horrible, but they are annoying. I have much experience over a 7 year on-and-off addiction. It's kind of like a tramadol withdrawal meaning anxiety and depression. The physical effects are moderate. If you've had big boy withdrawals, you could even go back to work. Phenibut, gabapentin, and moderate amounts of THC help immensely for me. It'll take longer than the typical 4-5 days of suffer, and be more like 4-5 suffer and a general ease back to brain chemical normality. That's how it is for me, personally.

    Also, let me mention that the RLS and insomnia are what make it so tough for most people, in my opinion. The insomnia stokes the anxiety, which worsens the depressive state, and then you're feeling like you could be having a mild/moderate withdrawal profile.

    It's very doable. Taper is a must. Even if short.

    Next step: Refrain from hopping on favorite vendor and getting a Kg. Good luck.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by drewbocop; 14-05-2014 at 01:52. Reason: fuckin dumb
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    Too late, my 1.6kg arrived earlier.
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    #8
    I was on Kratom for a year... most of the time once a day, rarely would I go up to twice a day but then after a few days I would go back down to once a day, then stop for a few days, go back on etc. Hardly ever got any withdrawal for awhile. Then I kept on everyday for awhile. Stopped and got minor but annoying withdrawal. Never got past the 6 or 7 day mark. At some point after about 6 months of usage, I went back on occasional oxy use. Then after a couple of more months I had surgery and went on all day oxy use for a couple weeks, plus the Kratom, which I increased to large doses several times per day along with the oxy. Then I stopped oxy after a couple of weeks, but stayed on Kratom... and I felt some minor withdrawal, but it was alright. I thought I was good, but then I tried tapering the Kratom a little bit, which at this point was about 7-8 grams 3 or 4 times a day, and it was HELL. First I tried dropping a whole dose, then I tried less and less until I was trying to taper 1g per week, which still felt like suffering, even while still taking so much. It was like Kratom and Oxy withdrawal combined. I couldn't even taper, not even a little bit. After over a month of suffering constant half-withdrawal trying to wean off of Kratom, I gave in and went to a treatment center. I got gabapentin, which worked miracles. I was able to stop the Kratom cold turkey. but then I ran out of gabapentin and felt a lot of cravings and anxiety and depression. This was about the 7th day off of Kratom. I went back on it (Kratom). I was on it for several weeks, and my use went right back up again. Up until... 4 days ago. Today is my 4th day clean from Kratom. It wasn't as bad, but still sucks. It's weird because I have gabapentin again to help, but it makes me more sleepy now and doesn't seem to help the withdrawal effects as much - so even though the withdrawal from the Kratom isn't as bad as it was (or would've been), I still feel the withdrawal more this time and it sucks. Today I tried taking a Wellbutrin I got a script for and now I feel very edgy because of it, but at the same time I haven't taken gabapentin yet today. Not sure if I will continue the Wellbutrin. I have read reports about the depression/anxiety/cravings going on for quite some time, like weeks, and want to be off of this, everything, myself. The physical effects are mostly gone, just some chills and restlessness that come and go. But the psychological effects are horrible. The Wellbutrin seems to have helped with the lack of motivation and depression, but I feel edgy and anxious. Also, I don't know if I'm just delaying the inevitable by using this stuff.

    I'm trying to stay positive, but having a job where I am expected to interact with people and be productive all day doesn't help... I had my brother hide all the Kratom I had left so I can't take it. So I'm with you man... it sucks.
    Last edited by whiteroom67; 16-05-2014 at 20:11.
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    #9
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    I find kratom wd mild to moderate. i feela mental wd more than physical. for restlessness at night i use benadryl. it seems to at least take the edge off the anxiety and makes me sleep
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    Whiteroom, so good for you! 4 days is awesome, I mean it means you're pretty serious. i'm having troubles starting, seeing as the last time i went cold turkey I was so horrible to the people around me, and I feel like a lot that i have repressed the last year will come back. coming off of oxy is super difficult, feel free to post here whenever and we can help eachother through
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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewbocop View Post
    I take close to ~40 grams per day, some in daytime, and some while i work my midnights to push through the work. Buys me time to watch a movie and an episode or something. The withdrawals aren't horrible, but they are annoying. I have much experience over a 7 year on-and-off addiction. It's kind of like a tramadol withdrawal meaning anxiety and depression. The physical effects are moderate. If you've had big boy withdrawals, you could even go back to work. Phenibut, gabapentin, and moderate amounts of THC help immensely for me. It'll take longer than the typical 4-5 days of suffer, and be more like 4-5 suffer and a general ease back to brain chemical normality. That's how it is for me, personally.

    Also, let me mention that the RLS and insomnia are what make it so tough for most people, in my opinion. The insomnia stokes the anxiety, which worsens the depressive state, and then you're feeling like you could be having a mild/moderate withdrawal profile.

    It's very doable. Taper is a must. Even if short.

    Next step: Refrain from hopping on favorite vendor and getting a Kg. Good luck.
    [/QUOTE]

    I'm thinking the withdrawal varies from person to person greatly for some odd reason. But i agree that the RLS and insomnia are the worst. i feel like i can take any withdrawal, as long as I can sleep (which it seems a lot of them don't allow...)


    I feel like I have to taper because i can't take not sleeping. I guess my plan is to taper until I'm down to 1 tbsp a day, and then i'll cold turkey. i don't want to taper for a month and go through those half withdrawals for way too long. it's just hard to for to plunge in when i already have so much depression naturally. But I have to say that I think I will be able to conquer this with my mindset on it, because I hate being spiritually blocked by a substance. Even the first day cold turkey I feel more connected to myself, and I can't go without that any longer. since posting this i haven't been very successful. As tiny as it is, I'm starting this tapering process by just waking up and not taking kratom for 2 hours so that I can connect better to my goals and myself and better analyse where I want to go. then i'm taking up to 2tbsp throughout the day, which is better than 4. i'll probably taper down to 1.5 tbsp, and then cold turkey except for 1 tsp at night sometime in the next week. After that half withdrawal, it will be without a nighttime dose. I have to be off of this by June 1st, or June 10th if that isn't possible, because i have to be able to bus an hour away to start school, and kratom doesn't let me take transport out of carsickness.
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    #12
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    I'm doing the 'i''ll go cold turkey tomorrow, and use as much as i want today' thing every day. I look back to the last times i went off of it for 3-4 days, and it's because i didn't have any, and it takes 2 days to get here and by that time, it's "i might as well keep going, seeing i'll have to tough it out another 2 days even if i bought more". so it seems my best bet is just to run out on purpose. i have one more day's worth and i'll be out.. so no sleep time dose, i guess, seems to be the only way. Do you guys have any recommendations for sleep? i have kava, I wish i could get a small, week-long dose of sleeping pills or soemthing really badly, but i doubt a doctor would understand what kratom withdrawal is.
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by asiam View Post
    I'm doing the 'i''ll go cold turkey tomorrow, and use as much as i want today' thing every day. I look back to the last times i went off of it for 3-4 days, and it's because i didn't have any, and it takes 2 days to get here and by that time, it's "i might as well keep going, seeing i'll have to tough it out another 2 days even if i bought more". so it seems my best bet is just to run out on purpose. i have one more day's worth and i'll be out.. so no sleep time dose, i guess, seems to be the only way. Do you guys have any recommendations for sleep? i have kava, I wish i could get a small, week-long dose of sleeping pills or soemthing really badly, but i doubt a doctor would understand what kratom withdrawal is.
    Lol I totally get what you mean by the "running out on purpose and might as well keep going since I'll be almost halfway there by the time I order more and it gets here" technique. Right now I'm doing the "my brother has hidden my POUND of Kratom so why would I order more and spend more money if I already have that lying around somewhere and am mostly through withdrawal by now and just need to get through the PAWS" technique.

    For sleep, I would order some Phenibut, and combine it with Valerian, Ashwaghanda, L-Theanine and Melatonin, along with some L-Tryptophan combined with B-6 and maybe some Magnesium too - all stacked together at the same time right before bedtime. I combine all of that and wash all of it down with a double-dose cup of Yogi Bedtime tea, which contains Passion Flower, more Valerian extract, Chamomile, St. Johns Wort and Skullcap, and has a very soothing and relaxing flavor, and I'm usually alright with all that for sleeping during Kratom withdrawal... more or less. The Phenibut is the probably the most important - and the foundation. I would try not to use it more than a few days though. You definitely don't want to use it for long because you can get addicted to that too, and the withdrawals are even worse, from what I hear (I've never personally gone through them, thankfully). If I can get something like Valium too, I will usually throw some of that in there too, responsibly, with not too high a dosage. Phenibut affects GABA-b receptors, while Valium and other benzos affect GABA-a receptors. Valium is also the only benzo to have unique muscle relaxant properties combined with it too, so I personally see it as being the best benzo to obtain, at least for this purpose. Phenibut seems to work really well for Kratom withdrawal though for some reason. Like I said though I don't take it for long and limit it to a few days, to avoid withdrawal from it. I take some during the day too to help some of the symptoms while I'm at work, though I would recommend starting your cold-turkey on a Saturday and maybe taking the day off on at least Monday, if you can.
    Last edited by whiteroom67; 19-05-2014 at 15:14.
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    #14
    Oh also, gabapentin would help tremendously as well. But be careful as that generally lowers tolerance to other GABAergics such as Phenibut and/or benzos. But gabapentin itself is very safe and effective for kratom or opiate withdrawals just in general. But youll need a script for it.
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    #15
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    how'd you get your brother to hide it, lol. He's doing it because you asked him too, right?
    I've never used phenibut, but everybody keeps mentioning it for kratom withdrawal. The only problem is i purposely used my last 50 dollars or protein powder so I couldn't buy kratom yesterday, bah well i'll see how tomorrow night goes and maybe do a zombie walk to the bank.

    Is gabapentin a prescription thing? It sounds like it really helped you. I actually quit my job, half off of wanting to get off kratom and having a panic attack/crying attack? at work the first day cold turkey, months ago, and half out of having a boss that constantly acts like everybody is going to get fired on the spot so might as well quit now. anyway, you must be well on day 7-10ish now? It's amazing how fast it really does go by when you're not in the time distortion of withdrawal.

    I ended up finding 30 more grams, which lasted a day and a half, so tomorrow is now my first day. It's amazing how scared I am because i've gotten so comfortable in taking no risks, staying tied to things that make me feel safe, not going out since i quit my job because kratom makes me so tired and untalkitive now. it's not even as bad as i make it out to be, but on any drug mild or not you repress any light or heavy emotion for as long as you take it and just wondering what point i'm really at in life is scary.

    last time i cold turkeyed i tried melatonin and massive amounts of l-gaba and kava and nothing worked. So I just have to remember the worst will be gone in what, 3-5 days? And it'll probably be over in 10-14? that seems so tiny for how big i've made this whole thing out to be, stalling for the last 4 months.

    Also, I can't get this nagging thought out of my head that when i quit i can still do it every once in a while, once every 2 weeks or something, because my chasing of it is because of tolerance / not having had the original high in months and months. i don't know if it's a helpful, gradual thought to have, or not. Probably not

    Sorry for long posts ha, but nobody gives a damn to listen to my struggle with this, and addiction in general to other things, in life. They either don't get it, or they just tell me to stop doing it, lose respect for me if i bring it up, and look at me with a frown as if i'm lesser than them and an idiot.
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    Yeah I just told him to hide it and he's good at hiding stuff. He knows my situation. I didn't want to throw it all away just yet because it's probably anywhere between $150-$200 worth of Kratom. He will keep it hidden and control my dosing after my period of complete detox and abstinence.

    Phenibut does really help but it's really addictive physically and really shouldn't be used more than a few days in a row. Gabapentin is indeed a prescription, but it's usually pretty easy to get as it's not really considered a drug of abuse.

    Today is day 10 for me, yes. I am still taking the Wellbutrin but I feel like it's lost most of its initial flair and I'm not really sure if it's doing much of anything now as I feel completely normal/sober - with little thoughts/cravings, typical feeling of unsatisfaction with life (though not chronically depressed) and irritability in the mornings (normal for me). My sleep last night was ehh. Debating whether to discontinue it yet or not.

    Yeah for just Kratom the physical part should be pretty much over ~ day 5. At that point though the mental shit starts and that's the worst. For me I'm still getting chills and restlessness here or there (barely) but only because I used it to get off of oxy, so it was masking the oxy withdrawal as well. After the 2 week point you should definitely be feeling much better either way. This is actually the longest I've gone without Kratom since starting it - ever.

    I still feel like I want to be able to do it once in awhile too. So when I feel the time is right I will try and see how I feel and dose up... but still have my brother keep it hidden so I don't take the chance of falling back into the pattern of using it again, ha. I feel like having him holding onto it keeps me from buying more, because why would I spend more money when I know I already have that much lying around, you know? Otherwise I feel like I would've caved and bought more by now or something.
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    #17
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    it sounds like a good plan, i once had 300 dollars worth lying around and i just gave it away for 50 bucks to some vendor who buys it from the same place i did. i so regret that,, since i've resorted to a more expensive place with 1 day shipping instead and probably spent at least 1000 in half a year.

    Today is day 1 and it's worse than i thought, i don't know why it's so bad this time, 3 months ago i did 3 days and it was hard but not this hard. i can make it through the chills and sweats, a seemable fever, even the rls, but when the whole world has a sterile, haunting vibe and you cry at everything all day, ugh. it feels like a bad reaction to an ssri. I actually regret putting myself in the position to HAVE to go through 6 days without even an option to taper.. i can't tell if that's my mind tricking me, but hell i wish i could just taper. i've only been up and having this for 6 hours. i'm considering getting some dxm because i've heard it can help, but i dont think i can walk to the store and i am incredibly socially anxious. I have no idea why this one sucks so much, kratom withdrawals never suck this much..
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by asiam View Post
    it sounds like a good plan, i once had 300 dollars worth lying around and i just gave it away for 50 bucks to some vendor who buys it from the same place i did. i so regret that,, since i've resorted to a more expensive place with 1 day shipping instead and probably spent at least 1000 in half a year.

    Today is day 1 and it's worse than i thought, i don't know why it's so bad this time, 3 months ago i did 3 days and it was hard but not this hard. i can make it through the chills and sweats, a seemable fever, even the rls, but when the whole world has a sterile, haunting vibe and you cry at everything all day, ugh. it feels like a bad reaction to an ssri. I actually regret putting myself in the position to HAVE to go through 6 days without even an option to taper.. i can't tell if that's my mind tricking me, but hell i wish i could just taper. i've only been up and having this for 6 hours. i'm considering getting some dxm because i've heard it can help, but i dont think i can walk to the store and i am incredibly socially anxious. I have no idea why this one sucks so much, kratom withdrawals never suck this much..

    Yeah dude, that's what it was like for me this time too, it caught me totally off-guard and I couldn't handle it, especially having to go to work - it was unbearable. That's why I went to a treatment center. Seriously, the Neurontin/Gabapentin, plus Thomas recipe worked wonders. Having Phenibut available for the first few days as extra was nice to have too. But the gaba really did it. I was able to stop cold turkey no problem.

    DXM should help a little... if you can make it to the store lol. But just remember you can do it if you really want it... you won't die and when it comes to Kratom even every few hours will feel just a little bit better. You'll be alright, we're here for you.
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    I've done my share of Kratom w/'s and I agree, it gets worse every time you do it. Hopefully I won't have to do it for a long time now.I got rid of all my really bad habits and a small Kratom habit is an indulgence I allow mself.
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    Yeah, the variance of withdrawal from person to person is so extreme, very intruiging. And it seems as long as you have 1 day in between, the withdrawal isn't that bad at all. I mean i did that for a year and had almost no issue with the w/d. i'd soo get some of the things you're mentioning whiteroom, it's a shame i purposely didn't cash my cheque and now can't walk to the store, lol. It's comforting to hear that this degree is sometimes possible from others too

    JJ that attitude actually seems very healthy. Kratom isn't the kind of thing you HAVE to do every day, like harder drugs. it's very easy to keep it to a small indulgence. I do worry about what i'm looking for in a substance, whether it's rarely or not, but this extreme none or all thing is not healthy for something that's not SO bad in moderation.

    I took benadryl on the first night, and what a mistake. It made me so drowsy i couldn't do anything and be remotely interested, but it skyrocketed my RLS. I read a previous thread on this before i took it, but I took the chance. In the end, i made a CWE of from tylenol 1s, at 12 in the afternoon the next day, really low strength, just enough to take away a little bit of restlessness to sleep. and i got 3 hours
    So day 3, i've slept about 6 hours in total yet i don't feel sleep deprived because of the restlessness and anxiety. I'm not crying all the time today. Cold chills and hot sweating at the same time is still there, feel feverish but thermometer says i'm actually colder than normal. Still can barely walk out of weakness, but it's a tiny bit better. No appetite what so ever, trying to get food down consists of 1 piece of tofu so far today. I've had the energy to make one meal and a protein drink in total and it helped the weakness a little, and basically have subsisted on half a tortilla now and then otherwise.

    I ordered 30g of kratom 2 days ago on that 1st horrible day (25 dollars, what a rip off for something to come in 1-2 days shipping), knowing it would still take 3-4 days to get here anyways with the weekend. It just helps the desperation to know that if I can't sleep all weekend, at least i'll be able to take 1 tsp at night and sleep on Monday. So i'm counting down the 32-56 w/e hours until the kratom so i can sleep.
    Last edited by asiam; 25-05-2014 at 04:12.
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    #21
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    Just out of curiousity whiteroom, not to be personal but how did you afford a treatment center? is it the kind of thing you can save for in a few years if things were to subsist or progress? Or is it something you can borrow money.. or insurance or something. To me it sounds like a dream, to have people there to help you with whatever disturbs you underneath all the compulsions. I always thought it was impossible because of cost. Also because my addictions can seem so subtle to harder ones but i feel like i'm only using light things because i have no access to harder things namely opiates, i know i'd be in trouble if oxycontin ever became available again.
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    #22
    Well... Yeah, its through insurance, thru my job. But even some of the meds that arent covered are within reason price wise. You can always go w silk road if you have the guts ive used it many a time and it was okay... I just always encrypted everything.

    Honestly asiam by the time your kratom gets there you may want to figure out a way to keep yourself from taking it. It will have been about 5 days clean already, and you should give your brain more time to recover before occasionally indulging again.
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    #23
    Do you guys know what the average threshold frequency/amount is that a person could use kratom without the risk of getting WDs?

    Is it more of a matter of how often its used or is it more dependent on the dose thing(e.i. people using over x amount of grams a day are much more likely to get it, where as jonny can use below x-amount daily and be fine)???
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    Quote Originally Posted by penpal View Post
    Do you guys know what the average threshold frequency/amount is that a person could use kratom without the risk of getting WDs?

    Is it more of a matter of how often its used or is it more dependent on the dose thing(e.i. people using over x amount of grams a day are much more likely to get it, where as jonny can use below x-amount daily and be fine)???
    From my experience at least it depends more on how often you use it. If I were to use any amount and then use more 1 hour later, it wouldn't affect me. It has a very quick tolerance, which is related to dependence of the body. If you were to use 1 tbsp every 2 days vs. 1/2 tbsp every day for a month, no doubt that you'd have more of a withdrawal using it every day. But as I said, just personal experience. I've read by others that they agree, they cannot use it multiple days in a row for long without a tolerance building. So imo it would be better to take more if it means a day off
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  25. Collapse Details
     
    #25
    Greenlighter
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    34
    I agree whiteroom, I think that's part of my subliminal plan haha. Be able to count down the hours and feel safe that it will come eventually, but also be in a better state by the time it comes. Withdrawals = cravings, which were strong, but i know theyll fade even after just 3 days. Also, sorry for asking personal information. I just didn't know that rehab centers accepted insurance at all. What is silk road?
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