• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

[Debate] What is ego-death?

"I had no idea where I was, who I was, what time was and what it ever felt like to be in reality. That's all i can describe it as."

This sounded more like the pass-out game than ego-death. I have some vague idea of what ego-death implies. My advice to everyone is to find a term with a fit description.
 
Ego death means thinking to oneself that "i'm dead" (or "ive gone permanently insane/stopped existing/the world has ended etc etc) in a psychedelic trip session. In ego death you can see what it is like to be dead or reach the end, but you live to tell the tale because the trip ends.

It's the precise logical opposite to Descartes' self-affirmation that "i think that I exist"
 
Yes, what you experienced is more like "Ego Loss"... which is pretty common on high doses of Psychedelics/Dissociatives.

But Ego Death is something more complicated. It's mostly only occurring on heroic doses.
 
TheCuriousOne said:
Yes, what you experienced is more like "Ego Loss"... which is pretty common on high doses of Psychedelics/Dissociatives.

But Ego Death is something more complicated. It's mostly only occurring on heroic doses.
Click to expand...
If I even knew what ego death definitively was... but from all the definitions I have seen you can overcome these mental limitations by using the mind itself. Can drugs help, sure, but you can crack the code really without doing immense amount of drugs. It is generated by the mind. Even if ego-death is done drugged out trance you can achieve all that by other activities. Any religious mumbo-jumbo that supposedly gets its adherents "there" are all just that.

We can't all agree what this really is because to give it a concrete definition is disproven.
 
I've taken some heroic doses but always been perfectly aware of who I was and that I'd taken a psychedelic drug. The idea of "dying" or "loss" sounds way too melodramatic for me and might be the reason why psychedelics are still demonised. If instead of "death" everyone talked about "feeling more alive than life itself" perhaps we'd be in a better place reputation wise.
 
Wow, there's some really wild statements in this thread. Ego death an embellished term for going insane? I hope you're kidding. I'm here to back up solipsis. Look, I've been really fucked up. I've been to the point where the word dissolves and there's nothing but Colors and patterns. I've flown through space and I've danced with elves... However, note something: in all those experiences it's "I", me, myself. There have been times where there was no "I", there was nobody. There was no thought, just observation. After the times, I can Remember what existed, but my conscious self was never there. It's an extremely difficult phenomenon to explain, but it is real, and it is not a state of "I'm fucked up." Especially considering this phenomenon has happened throughout history WITHOUT the use of psychedelics.

In regards to the term ego - death: that's just a term someone decided to coin because at the time they felt it suited the experience. Forget the word, because this was happening far before the term Ego. Hell, far before English was really even a language.

To the OP: your experience does not sound like "ego death". More of just a slight kind of amnesia, I've experienced it a couple times before on Ketamine. Each time after passing out and waking up. It's like the loss of consciousness triggered extreme confusion.
 
Last edited:
I wish I could upvote Solipsis.

Most of these other posters need to review their Freud.

Consciousness ≠ Ego
"Ego" is kind of a framework for processing/interfacing with the world.
Freud defined Ego as a set of psychic functions such as judgment, tolerance, reality testing, control, planning, defense, synthesis of information, intellectual functioning, and memory.

OP, I think some of those systems were broken for you, so you could lay claim to if not ego-death, at least ego-disruption.

If you want to take the more Eastern approach to ego-death, it could be defined as loss of sense of self or on the other hand freedom from the illusion/prison of perception.

IMO the whole point of taking psychedelics is to approach these states of mind.
 
Last edited:
Dude you are taking it way too literally, it is not permanent like actual death and it does not purely relate to whatever Freud consider ego just because that word was chosen it the definition. Yes we can sit here and play semantics for a year but I'd rather not devalue experiences of non-duality and the like because some people here seem to be unfamiliar with it, or are unable to integrate such experiences into a framework.

Let's just focus on that last part, yes: loss of sense of self, and what fill the void created by effects like derealization. Much psychedelic insight and therapy is helped by the same pattern: first a dissolution of beliefs and constructs of the mind, and upon 're-entrance' freshened up and rebooted constructs of the mind (although as motivated and inspired as we might be, it is hard to expect to be able to force a lot of change upon ourselves without working top-down... if only because we are not 'allowed' to move short-term memory into our long-term memory like that.
 
I'm completely lost here. ^

I'll just go ahead and call it extreme dissociation. As that's more than likely what it was. Since depersonalization and derealization fits the description of how I felt perfectly.
 
Ego is so misunderstood by most people. The "I" is widely debated. But what is the "I" really? Who are you? Is it your name that's given to you when born? Are you that name? I doubt it. Are you your brain? Debatable, but scale it down and even the brain can't be identified with. A neuron firing and thoughts that are thrown at you isn't exactly "you" either. Your body? Cells get replaced constantly throughout the years and it's completely different from say 10-15 years ago. I personally believe that ego-death is breaking out of the illusion that you and the outside world are somehow separate. When you are everything and also nothing at the same time, that is ego-death. It has nothing to do with tripping balls or being fucked up but that may be the catalyst for such an experience.
 
dezz said:
Ego is so misunderstood by most people. The "I" is widely debated. But what is the "I" really? Who are you? Is it your name that's given to you when born? Are you that name? I doubt it. Are you your brain? Debatable, but scale it down and even the brain can't be identified with. A neuron firing and thoughts that are thrown at you isn't exactly "you" either. Your body? Cells get replaced constantly throughout the years and it's completely different from say 10-15 years ago. I personally believe that ego-death is breaking out of the illusion that you and the outside world are somehow separate. When you are everything and also nothing at the same time, that is ego-death. It has nothing to do with tripping balls or being fucked up but that may be the catalyst for such an experience.
Click to expand...
Your name is part of your super ego. Everything you are to me is, in a sense, your super ego.

All questions you have about who you are, are really questions about how you are related to the rest if the world, what you represent, where you are at, etc.

No such questioning can be applied to the ego. You cannot ask, who am I? You are you. Where am I? You are right where you are... and so on.

There is only one ego in the room. That's me (you). Your ego is not present in my universe. I don't know that you have an ego. Only that you have a heart beat and some brain waves. Your ego is not this and not that, and when you are done with everything you are not, there is no question to who you are.

There is a definite experience, in which everything is explained in terms of ego potential. Anything and everything that you desire, all you have attained, what you will miss when you are gone, (dark side of the moon) et al. is all your ego. Such a paradox. Your ego is every experience. This is a total experience and it is quite overwhelming.

All at once you see the "limitless" expression of the self and that you are the universe. Nothing that can be known to the ego, may surpass the ego. Ego-death, semantically, should then be the loss of self. In a way it is. You are quite lost, along with the whole experience, the destruction of the entire universe and the rebirth into a new universe where one lives in a constant state of ego-awareness.

However, if it was not a constant state before ego-death, then it would not be a revelation. Once you are aware of that, chasing it would be like tying your shoes, telling someone about it would be like telling someone what a bath is like. No sooner do you learn that you are everything than it should be forgotten.

Where you are at, in a natural/normal state, is the end result. Ego-death is like a new birth, mentally, into a body of some years age.
 
Last edited:
My desires, what I attain and will attain isn't "every experience" and I think our definition of ego is different or you simply didn't understand my point. All that stuff, what I desire, who I think I am is all thought. I wasn't born that way and nobody is.

"All at once you see the "limitless" expression of the self and that you are the universe. Nothing that can be known to the ego, may surpass the ego. Ego-death, semantically, should then be the loss of self. In a way it is. You are quite lost, along with the whole experience, the destruction of the entire universe and the rebirth into a new universe where one lives in a constant state of ego-awareness."

Actually an expression of the self is severely LIMITED not limitless. You don't need ego-death to be aware of the ego. You can have an ego and be aware of it at the same time.

"All questions you have about who you are, are really questions about how you are related to the rest if the world, what you represent, where you are at, etc.

No such questioning can be applied to the ego. You cannot ask, who am I? You are you. Where am I? You are right where you are... and so on. "

Of course you can. The ego is just a structure created by the mind. When it comes right down to it it's just a story/bundle with thoughts. Dislikes, likes, identification and aversion and grasping can all be questioned while remaining aware of ego involved. The questions I asked have absolutely nothing to do with relating to the world, or where I am in the world. It has everything to do with identifying yourself with... what you think is you. I was trying to make a point: You can't.
 
Ismene said:
I've taken some heroic doses but always been perfectly aware of who I was and that I'd taken a psychedelic drug.
Click to expand...

you ever tried DMT? first time I broke-though, off 100mg smoked, I literally didnt know who I was, where I was or what was going on..

anyone who thinks there's no such thing as ego-death have never gone deep enough to experience it, full-stop
 
I am certain if our definitions of ego differ then one is wrong. My definition of ego is direct awareness of thoughts and our senses, or simply: awareness.

You weren't born what way?

The expression of the self is limited... cripplingly so, but you will never directly sense anything, not even an imagined world, beyond this limit.

If explained properly, this is simple.

There are two directions:

Inside the ego is the world which is modeled. All vision, real or imagined, come and go through this region.

This whole region plus knowledge that there is more outside This is the other direction - the road less traveled.

Getting outside the region kills your ego.

The best you can hope for is to see a reflection of your ego, but the ego requires no evidence to exist, it simply must exist.
 
It is possible in my view but requires a lot of effort and practice with IE meditation, but it's very tricky because as you say there isn't much that isn't affected by ego. Nonetheless I still believe a direct sensory experience is possible. Yeah you aren't born that way my mistake, but I do think the atemporal mind is achievable.

I agree with you on a lot of fronts but this:

"The expression of the self is limited... cripplingly so, but you will never directly sense anything, not even an imagined world, beyond this limit."

I'm having trouble with this. So rigid, so sure of your case, I like to have an open mind and I believe these things are very possible, I'm not saying it's common or even doable for everyone, but possible? Definitely.
 
Man I thought I went too far down the rabbit hole! But you guys.... You guys take the cake.
 
A mystical state produced by a very strong psychedelic trip is in a way like advanced meditation, I have been to sesshins (week long Buddhist meditation retreats) and I felt like a lot of effects were comparable to those of LSD although much more balanced and natural and less unstable.

I think dezz and pmoseman are focusing on a lot of semantics and difference in technical definition, but IMO the point is that in an ego-death experience a construct of the mind that we strongly base our sense of reality, self, identity / personality, etc on, goes offline. I don't see you disagreeing on that essential point, am I misunderstanding you?

The most jarring ego-death experience I ever had perhaps showed me that it is not existing in pure awareness is the most severe part about the experience (just being isn't much of anything really - was neither positive or negative, it was nothing in particular and nothing differentiated for me), but the falling into it and climbing out of it that was all crazy, enlightening, horrifying and beautiful to me.

Leading up to it, some thoughts were still possible and those thoughts were panic about the part of dying and losing that construct. Since the very first time it happened I did not know anything like that was possible I truly believed that my life until that point had been an illusion and I was losing everything at that point. That instead reality is a dream being dreamed by the dream itself, which is a god-like supercomputer or differently organized sum / over-being, and that the dream is one of many facets of it.

I was in the ego-death state for IIRC about 4-5 hours and remember it being complete and (temporarily) 'terminal', and coming that from that forced me to forever redefine myself and what I think about the world. It showed me the nature or place or role of the construct we are summarizing as ego here.
The state itself is not enlightenment-like in my opinion, I think that is a very common misunderstanding. I believe that integrating the fact that our mental constructs are fundamentally illusion-like in our lives totally and pervasively, I think that allows incongruities between who we are and who we think of are to flow away, and that that is abiding awakening.
 
What is IE?

Outward a human body is a limited surface and inward a human body is a limited space. We can sense the body by looking at it and we can feel the body by poking at it. But we are looking out into the world from within the body. The body is of the world and the view of it is light reflected off the body and poking at our eyes. It is all surface experience, what we experience as the outer world, is the surface of our body. What we see as our hands, the Earth, the universe, is a surface and that surface is limited.

What you see and what you feel come from two different portions of the same surface, the eyes and the skin, but the brain amalgamates the two experiences making them the same. But we can put the brain in check and realize these are two distinct experiences. One coming from the eyes and the other the hands.

Slapping my leg I sense my leg is being touched, my hand is being touched, my eye is being touched, my ear is being touched. And there is nice stored sense of where I was touched at, known as pain These are all separate effects and the source of those effects are all the same event. They do not all reach the surface at the same time.

All we can sense, our limited perception of emotions, memories, imagination, pain, taste, limits of our vision, smell, sound; our internal landscape is an amalgamation of our surface interacting with the world and our thoughts are much the same, shadows on a surface. A surface folded in on itself, many times, to surround itself the only way it can. Between the folds of the surface thoughts are formed.

That is why everything you typically sense as being you is actually outside of you. But just as before it is all encapsulated at the surface. The brain. The nerves. Unable to sense itself, as the subsurface material lies just outside the experience, the brain transforms impulses that arrive through the nerve endings into the thoughts between the folds.

The surface is composed of material that is simply a part of the world. The sense of what you are is attached at this sensory junction, this body which gathers energy and amplifies its limited interface with the universe. It amplifies the world for you. You are within the surface.

What separates individuals is insulating material.

Inside your body is this surface. This surface is what you see. It is all you see. What you, what this surface, knows about itself now goes beyond an innate material sense of itself.

This junction is the surface and it is the space within the body. The body gathers material and energy and creates this surface. It creates multiples of them. We are just point experience without this junction.

The body is necessary to produce these events. The body is part of the natural world and our sense of the world and our sense of the self is all the same. This is our material body. We are not privy to the exact layout of all material. All the memories are held within the shape of the surface, without the brain we have next to nothing.

When we sleep. That is it. The junction is closed. Dreams are a vision produced by various minor junctions, signals from specific areas. The main junction is an amalgamation of all the minor junctions focused together. They are focused together by the brain and nerves to create a unitary concept.

More exists outside of this human body than what we are able to sense. The space within is the same as the space without. The universe, if you will, is unbroken between the two. This lining, the self, inferred to exist, has sense of what is around it but itself is also part of the unbroken all.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top