The Official EADD Paedo Discussion Thread v3 -Nonce-tastic

[StoneHappyMonday]

Fucking hell Raas. Get some reading lessons. And some understanding outside of this good/wicked God bollocks. You're regressing man.

 

[Sammy G]

Most of the decent books have young boys getting buggered on every other page. Where would Burroughs be without those little buggered boys?

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Books and literature come under free speech Shammy. I don't go with the argument that books and video games and films make people rape/kill etc.

 

[ScotchMist]

I think very much the same.. however as a father myself I think id soon turn hypocrite if somebody were to harm my daughter... its a difficult one indeed

 

[Vurtual]

Erm, being an opiate addict is nothing like being a child molester. Did I even read that right? are you really comparing the two?

You didn't read it right - some people think about opiate addicts (or christians or muslims or athiests) the same way that most people think about paedophiles. Btw how does the 'love your enemy' bit fit with 'no sympathy'?

And @Dan - i think that is justice (it's certainly closer than an eye for an eye)

 

[Shambles]

Proper justice is something society could benefit from imo

Indeed it could. I'd recommend a doc I posted in the TV Thread recently as a good introduction to what I believe proper justice to be. Certainly as part of the justice process anyway. The simple fact of the matter is that revenge does not work to prevent or lessen crime - it may or may not make some people feel good to have "done something" but it solves nothing and prevents nothing like enough to justify it (if it even prevents anything much at all). We had hanging and severe physical punishments (all manner of torture that would make even a Heil journo wince and say "That's a but much") and did we eliminate crime? No. We had a higher crime rate than we do now (admittedly it's not a very fair comparison as laws and societal norms have changed so much since then but general point remains). They seem to still have plenty enough criminality to keep the show going in Saudi Arabia too and they do have rather firm punishments that actually are based on "an eye for an eye" quite literally. It's revenge not justice and that makes society as guilty as the offender cos they're doing the exact same thing. I'd actually argue that society is doing a worse thing because it should know better and is unlikely to have any of the potentially somewhat mitigating factors that may or may not exist in the criminal's situation.

What it it you think would actually be improved by reverting to a more "eye for an eye" approach to justice? How would society be improved?

 

[Raasyvibe]

Fucking hell Raas. Get some reading lessons. And some understanding outside of this good/wicked God bollocks. You're regressing man.

You didn't read it right - some people think about opiate addicts (or christians or muslims or athiests) the same way that most people think about paedophiles. Btw how does the 'love your enemy' bit fit with 'no sympathy'?

No I did read it right.

If someone hates on a peado, they have valid reason (It's likely that person is quite ill-intended, deliberately careless). If someone hates on an opi addict, they do not have that same valid reason. So it is misplaced.

 

[ColtDan]

Less economical drain, zero chance of re-offending, if a dog bites somebody it gets put down... if a monster fucks somebodys life up they banged up for a few years then released with a new identity or some shit... eye for an eye. or operate. or do something

and heaven and hell... who needs hell when you have some fat fuck who looks like cyrial with power abusing you, plus the guy looks like something out of a fucking horror movie, "hell and heaven" is on earth

 

[Vurtual]

No I did read it right.

If someone hates on a peado, they have valid reason (It's likely that person is quite ill-intended, deliberately careles). If someone hates on an opi addict, they do not have that same valid reason. So it is misplaced.

But if someone wants to hang a paedophile it's as wrong as them wanting to hang an opiate addict in my opinion - and your answer on love your enemy? Is the paedophile not your enemy - why are you not loving them? (which is not to say not putting them in jail or whatever)

 

[ScotchMist]

Whether its misplaced or not there are still plenty of people with that view raas..

 

[Shambles]

I understand your point, but I feel we all have an awareness of what is right in our heart and what we should never do.

That simply is not true. Certain personality orders, brain injuries and mental illnesses specifically involve not being able to tell right from wrong. Obviously it's not only people in those situations that commit crime but they are still people and some do commit crime without being able to understand they are doing wrong - would you class those separately and treat them differently or should they also be locked up until their lonely death? If that sounds at all sarcy it really isn't I'm just wondering as you didn't mention situations like that and they wouldn't fit with your idea of universal moral awareness.

Morals and ideas of what is right and wrong also vary quite dramatically over time too. Are we at the pinnacle of moral awareness or is it likely we still have a lot to learn and improve on? I strongly suspect the latter so don't really go in for statements of absolute moralaties like those. If a thing used to be considered perfectly acceptable but would know be utterly abhorrent to us would that person know in their heart they were doing right if born years ago and know it was wrong if born now?

 

[Vurtual]

"hell and heaven" is on earth

I agree, and one of hell's most common incarnations is a state or a mob with the power of life and death based on often dubious and later obviously wrong reasons.

 

[ColtDan]

but I feel we all have an awareness of what is right in our heart and what we should never do.

Not everybody does. Some people have no ability to feel empathy, amount other things, some people have completely different morality and perspective to you

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Less economical drain, zero chance of re-offending, if a dog bites somebody it gets put down... if a monster fucks somebodys life up they banged up for a few years then released with a new identity or some shit... eye for an eye. or operate. or do something

And you'd be ok with society imposing this 'justice' on drug users like yourself Dan? Society decides you are a monster for wilfully disobeying the law of the land by using drugs - you're ok with having yourself put down like a dog?

 

[ColtDan]

Of course not... How can a drug user even be compared to a peado?.... Fuck societys fucked up backwards media properganda brainwashed views, absolute horseshit

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

I think very much the same.. however as a father myself I think id soon turn hypocrite if somebody were to harm my daughter... its a difficult one indeed

It's ok to recognize you're human and therefore capable of both, seemingly conflicting, feelings. We have emotions and we have rationale. Emotions can be raw and work on our base feelings. So it's actually 'natural' to want to string up some bastard who has fucked your daughter. Denying those feelings would be pretty 'unnatural'. But acting on those feelings....our world of rationale should tell us that's wrong, that the point of humanity is to advance and rise above our seemingly natural base. That's because we are capable of rationale. Isn't it what separates us from the animals? That and football.

 

[Shambles]

Books and literature come under free speech Shammy. I don't go with the argument that books and video games and films make people rape/kill etc.

I tend to agree on the former and mostly agree with the latter. I don't think anybody has ever raped or killed because they read a book or saw a film. However, there does seem to be quite a strong influence on the specifics of a crime in some instances. A person who wishes to rape or murder somebody will do so but the manner in which they do so is sometimes very clearly influenced by various media. By extension I could see how it might be possible that somebody could commit acts they otherwise wouldn't have committed because they were copycatting something they had that type of obsessive relationship with. Somebody who is in no way predisposed to such things I don't believe could be so influenced they suddenly decide that actually it looks fun to kill folk so of I go to kill folk. People who are already at risk of such behaviour can sometimes do things they would not have thought to do though I suspect. I think there's some evidence to support that now too (but don't feel strongly enough about it to dig any up I must admit).

Is a crime like raping a child made even worse if that person had every intention of doing such a thing anyway but when they did so they copycatted a particular scene from some horrid book they bought of Amazon (or anywhere else)? I can see how it could be which is why I have somewhat mixed feelings even with my strong belief in the importance of free speech. Just made me question my usually automatic reaction to such stories a bit.

 

[Raasyvibe]

But if someone wants to hang a paedophile it's as wrong as them wanting to hang an opiate addict in my opinion - and your answer on love your enemy? Is the paedophile not your enemy - why are you not loving them? (which is not to say not putting them in jail or whatever)

The malice is more justifiable if someone molested your child, is what I'm saying. No I don't believe in hating or hanging anyone, even peado's. Just a recognition of what they are - dissociation of them until their miserable deaths. (Why I suggested jail and spoke out against capital punishment)

That simply is not true. Certain personality orders, brain injuries and mental illnesses specifically involve not being able to tell right from wrong. Obviously it's not only people in those situations that commit crime but they are still people and some do commit crime without being able to understand they are doing wrong - would you class those separately and treat them differently or should they also be locked up until their lonely death? If that sounds at all sarcy it really isn't I'm just wondering as you didn't mention situations like that and they wouldn't fit with your idea of universal moral awareness.

Morals and ideas of what is right and wrong also vary quite dramatically over time too. Are we at the pinnacle of moral awareness or is it likely we still have a lot to learn and improve on? I strongly suspect the latter so don't really go in for statements of absolute moralaties like those. If a thing used to be considered perfectly acceptable but would know be utterly abhorrent to us would that person know in their heart they were doing right if born years ago and know it was wrong if born now?

It's a matter of responsibility. If you have diminished responsibility (due to mental illness) obviously you can't be blamed for you actions.

There is a recognition of what is right and what our commitments as humans should be. Those who choose not to be mindful of this and fall victim to shocking behaviour (like child molesting) are cold and dangerous people. The intentions are wrong. I generally agree with you on how they should be handled however and accept they're still humans. Just not very good ones.

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Of course not... How can a drug user even be compared to a peado?.... Fuck societys fucked up backwards media properganda brainwashed views, absolute horseshit

Not comparing a drug user to a paedo. We're defining 'monster'. Monsters come in all shapes and sizes. Hitler said Jews were monsters. Queers were monsters. Drug users....

 

[ColtDan]

Just because somebody breaks the law how does that automatically make them as a monster? Maybe i'll change monster to a different word, either way, you know what i mean